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Thread: Seeking better results for the poor Yemen

  1. #1
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    Seeking better results for the poor Yemen

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    Ive been roasting with my Gene cafe for around 2 years now, with mostly fantastic results. In the early days i kept a log of every roast i did and tried to aim for first crack at 11:00 ish and delay second by 4-6 mins further if i wanted to go that far, as i heard that was the general consensus.

    This has worked for me somewhat, but i still get the odd roast the tastes astringent and dirty. A good example is the Yemen Mocha Haimi. I thought id splash out and try a Yemen that everyone gets so excited about when they pop up at the monthly. I have a nice looking cs9 roast that didnt hit second, smells of berries in the bag, smells amazing off the grinder, but tastes burnt and overly acidic as a doppio ristretto flat white.

    My pours are pretty consistent and as i have a Breville BES860 with built in grinder i thought id take the beans to work and try it out on our cafe hardware. As a single shot flat white i got the same result unfortunately. This has been true for over half the bag of the Yemen, which is upsetting. I got the same results with the Ethiopian Limmu, could never get it to taste nice. Are some beans just not destined for the espresso machine or does it sound like my roasting is not hitting the mark? Anyone else tried roasting the Yemen Mocha Haimi in the Gene?

    Ive got a USB logger from the bean bay arriving today that i will be putting in the Gene for search of consistency and better results.

    Thanks guys!
    DScanes likes this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking better results for the poor Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by 41405540464C41250 link=1341271192/0#0 date=1341271192
    I have a nice looking cs9 roast that didnt hit second, smells of berries in the bag, smells amazing off the grinder, but tastes burnt and overly acidic as a doppio ristretto flat white.
    If roasting for espresso, I would take it to the start of second crack. Also, try a longer rest time before opening the bag. I usually rest Yemeni beans for 10 - 12 days.

    If you have a Aeropress, try one of your YMH in that.

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    Re: Seeking better results for the poor Yemen

    Thanks Flynn ill give it a go. I tried to roast lighter as i didnt want to lose too many flavours, but will try your suggestion. No Aeropress unfortunately only a plunger and hand grinder other than the espresso machine.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking better results for the poor Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by 25243124222825410 link=1341271192/2#2 date=1341290670
    only a plunger
    Try in the plunger then. A lighter roast may work better using a manual brewing method if espresso doesnt work.
    Try a different temperature profile as well. Andys notes recommend plenty of heat for the dry processed beans such as Yemeni and Ethiopians but you could try a little slower to first crack. On the KKTO, I preheat to 150 add the beans and they will usually hit first crack in around 14 minutes. then a 3 - 4 minute ramp to second crack.

  5. #5
    KJM
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    Don't give up on these beans!

    I roast Yemeni's in the Gene. For espresso!

    My simple technique which seems to work very reliably is:
    1. Pre-heat to 250C (used to take 6mins, now takes a lot longer...)
    2. Emergency stop, put 250g of beans in and set the time for 20mins and hit go.
    3. Wait for FC - depends on ambient but right now it takes 10:30
    4. 4 minutes and then emergency stop and cool

    The 4 minutes takes me to the verge of second crack. Usually 4:10 to 4:20 will see second crack start.

    You'll need to tune your actual temperature settings somewhat. My Gene performs differently from Hazbean's and only the general outline of this process transplants!

    Best of luck, Yemeni's are my all time favourite!!

    /Kevin

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    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    Depecid,

    Do you "ramp" roast your Yemen?

    I am a massive fan of Yemen and I have ramped roasted mine for over 5 years now in the GC, and I find that this is the only way to do these. (Thank you Dennis!)

    If you have any questions, I am happy to help out and give you the ramping cook for these.

    -Linda

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maccas_chicka View Post
    Depecid,

    Do you "ramp" roast your Yemen?

    I am a massive fan of Yemen and I have ramped roasted mine for over 5 years now in the GC, and I find that this is the only way to do these. (Thank you Dennis!)

    If you have any questions, I am happy to help out and give you the ramping cook for these.

    -Linda
    Pardon my ignorance Linda, but what do you mean by Ramp Roast?

    Mal.

  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Anyone else know what this means...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Anyone else know what this means...
    I assumed Linda meant temperature profiling but is probably more specific than it if it refers to roasting of a particular bean. Hopefully Linda (or Den) will share her technique.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
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    I'm also interested. Bought some from current beanbay - and apart from the bean size issue with Behmor drum was hoping on some ideas re appropriate profile. Was going to try P1 but really not sure.

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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Pardon my ignorance Linda, but what do you mean by Ramp Roast?

    Mal.
    Maybe a ramping temperature input (ie slow start then climbing temp?)
    Matt

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus View Post
    I assumed Linda meant temperature profiling but is probably more specific than it if it refers to roasting of a particular bean. Hopefully Linda (or Den) will share her technique.
    That's kind of what I thought too Steve, but you know what they say about making assumptions...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennett View Post
    I'm also interested. Bought some from current beanbay - and apart from the bean size issue with Behmor drum was hoping on some ideas re appropriate profile. Was going to try P1 but really not sure.
    My experience with Yemen Mocha in the Behmor is that P3 gives rather poor results. Other roasters told me this is a hard bean, and it needs LOTS of heat.

    Roast it at P1, and take it 1-2 minutes from the start of first crack, or all the way up to second crack. It is now my favorite coffee to roast.

  14. #14
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
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    Ok, this is my first go of Yemen Bani Ismail on my Behmor. Man what a tough bean to tame!!! Very quiet cracks and it really takes some heat. After much deliberation I decided to start out on P3 which would replicate a 'ramped' profile as suggested by others - maybe I would have been better of sticking with P1 as suggested by rgrosz.

    I used 1lb P3C (375g of green beans). It took forever. First snaps of first crack at 18min then rolling first crack at 18:50min start of second crack at 20:05min and pressed cool and cooled internally.

    Looks OK. I know Yemen can look quite a mixed bag in colour. Will rest it and try in a few days. The two pictures are the same batch under different lighting conditions.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Roasted 725 grams of Yemen Sanani Mocha in the Coretto this morning, from cold to 1st crack @ 200c heat gun set on 630c took 12 mins, reduced the heat to 500, second crack in approx 19 mins @ 227c.
    The beans are small and uneven in size so the resulting roast is a bit mottled but overall they came up pretty well.
    Have roasted these as well as other beans from the Yemen in the past, never had any major drama with them.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Roasted 160g of the Yemen Bani Ismail in the i-Coffee this morning. The Roast Monitor data is below. Came out at about CS9.5-10, a little inconsistent in colour, but no more than some of my attempts at the Gambella. How long should this rest (I usually wait 6-7 days)?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #17
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Very similar profile to mine Barry, FC 200c, SC 227c roast stopped @ 19 mins.
    I find these beans continue to improve for up to a month if left unopened in cool dry conditions. :0

  18. #18
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Thanks Yelta (John?). I bought plenty of it but thought I 'd do a small batch first and see how that turns out. Also put some in a 40% India Elephant / 30% Yemen / 20% Sulawesi / 10% Nicaragua blend (which i find i enjoy with most Africans in the place of the Yemen). Will be good fun trying this.
    Last edited by Barry O'Speedwagon; 28th July 2012 at 09:06 PM. Reason: grocer's apostrophe strikes again (and I should know better)

  19. #19
    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    That's kind of what I thought too Steve, but you know what they say about making assumptions...

    Mal.
    Mal.

    Matt is correct.

    Start off at a lower temp for a certain amount of time, then increase the temperature as the roasting progresses.

    Ramp roasting....

    I do apologize if it caused some confusion.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Thanks Yelta (John?). I bought plenty of it but thought I 'd do a small batch first and see how that turns out. Also put some in a 40% India Elephant / 30% Yemen / 20% Sulawesi / 10% Nicaragua blend (which i find i enjoy with most Africans in the place of the Yemen). Will be good fun trying this.
    Yep, you got it right Barry, for some reason I lost my user name (Jon) with the forum change over, no big deal.
    Roasted the Yemen to take away with me on the upcoming trip, thought it would be interesting (and appropriate) to use them in an Ibrik for Turkish.
    I'm pretty partial to both African and South American beans, Indonesian! not so much.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Cheers mate. For me the Sulawesi is all about texture/viscosity more so than taste. Still playing around with the balance, using a very much trial and error method. Anyway....I shouldn't divert the subject of the thread too much.

  22. #22
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maccas_chicka View Post
    Mal.

    Matt is correct.

    Start off at a lower temp for a certain amount of time, then increase the temperature as the roasting progresses.

    Ramp roasting....

    I do apologize if it caused some confusion.
    Ah...

    Thank you Linda . I roast this way, in some shape or form, for pretty well all my batches. Back to using the (enclosed) Corretto again with my lovely wife's assistance so profile roasting is the norm again...

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.

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    KJM, our Genies must be worlds apart, as i tried your suggestion and 2 1/2 mins after 1st i had a rolling 2nd which hit so suddenly... loootttss of smoke. It was quite drinkable but very punchy.

    Linda, i haven't tried ramp roasting but i will keep it in mind for next time. I just finished reading "The Espresso Quest" and was interested in trying it out, as it mentions it in there. I usually preheat my Gene Cafe to 150, load the beans and set to 235... then once first crack is halfway through i'll drop the temperature by a few degrees to 10 degrees depending on how fast they're colouring. My goal is usually to extend the time from 1st to 2nd by 4-6 mins. Once i taste the coffee i play around with the profile depending on the taste.

    I notice with the Yemen, for me, 2nd seems to hit very quickly after first. I've dropped the temperature by 20 degrees and it still hits in less time than any other bean (Maybe on par with MM)

  24. #24
    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    Depecid.

    Interesting that everyone "preheats" their GC, as I never have, as I was told it wasn't neccessary, and the results I get are excellent.

    If you need the roasting profile for these to have a try, let me know.

    -Linda

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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depecid View Post
    I just finished reading "The Espresso Quest" and was interested in trying it out, as it mentions it in there. (Maybe on par with MM)
    Great read isn't it! And the photo's are superb ;-)
    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Great read isn't it! And the photo's are superb ;-)
    Matt
    For sure, I found myself staring at the photo's for longer than it would take me to read a page. I'm kinda bummed i finished it so quickly but i'm sure i'll pick it up again in a few months.

    Linda, i only just started pre heating my GC recently as i bought the datalogger. My assumptions were that having a consistent starting temperature is a good idea as sometimes i'll do back to back roasts and other times i would do just 1 cold start. Not to mention the temperature difference between roasting outdoors in winter vs summer. Gotta help with the consistency.

    I guess it wouldn't be so much of an issue if i was just roasting by sight, but i like to follow my profiles and play around with them.
    Thanks for the offer of the profile too, and yes please, that would be great!

  27. #27
    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maccas_chicka View Post
    Depecid.

    Interesting that everyone "preheats" their GC, as I never have, as I was told it wasn't neccessary, and the results I get are excellent.

    If you need the roasting profile for these to have a try, let me know.

    -Linda
    I've been preheating my gene or the same reason ie to get a consistent starting point as I do back to back roasts.

    Linda, I'd be interested in taking a look at your roast profiles too if you can please share. We can all learn from each other.

    Cheers
    Javabeen.

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    Agree on this one. Ramping worked for me too.

  29. #29
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    I preheated mine in the early days but found it was not necessary as the resting time after is more critical than most take into account.

  30. #30
    kbc
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Let Yemen rest for at least 7 days.



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