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Thread: The difference between 10 minute old coffee and 3 day old coffee

  1. #1
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    The difference between 10 minute old coffee and 3 day old coffee

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am new to roasting, and having had a few shots at it am trying to learn about how a roast will taste at different stages, ie by brewing a cup 10 mins after roasting, 1 day old, 2 day old, 2 week old etc... I know from reading the forums that most people like the flavour after 1-2 days at least.

    Also interested to hear about everyone's personal experiences at this, ie are there any general rules of thumb about how a 3 day old roast would taste compared to a roast that you brewed right after roasting? For example, I generally make short blacks, and find that the main difference for me is that the 3 day old would be smoother, and would lose a noticeably bitter aftertaste that is present right after roasting.

  2. #2
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi Melbroaster
    Welcome to the journey!
    I wouldn't expect a bitter taste right after roasting that then goes away with resting (unless it's one that remains throughout the beans aging due to over-roasted beans)
    But certainly, I find that the resulting brew will be smoother as mentioned as time progresses. Also the crema should settle - early on it will 'explode' out of the spout and then dissipate quickly, but will settle over a few days. I personally find 7-10 days the sweet zone. At 7 days suddenly the taste will punch through milk, and develop much more richness in a doppio. After about 14 days I find I need to start grinding coarser, as the result starts to get a bit bitter & oily due to age.
    Its not that a good roast will taste bad straight out of the roaster - but like a good wine will improve with age :-)
    Happy cupping!

    Let us know how you get on
    Matt

  3. #3
    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
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    Sometimes straight out of the roaster you can get a bit of a gassy taste, it's not too off putting but not the kind of shot you dream about =p

    So many different beans and roast profiles behave differently, it almost infinite! Usually I don't have much left at day 10 but I feel I often get the best flavor intensity well before then.. Though I can tell you I once found some month old decaf wow lying around and it was one of the best shots I ever had from the bean!
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    Its a weird thing. I usually roast and start using about the 8- 10 day mark. However, some of the best shots I ever had was in friends cafes using the same beans which were 20 days old. The espresso had a maturity and a depth and a sweetness and just the right amount of acidity. I cant explain it. I just loved it.

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    I roast every 10 days or so. My roasted beans are just getting beyond their best at this stage. I have read about de-gassing ad nauseum and beans being at their best from one week post roast but my experience tells me otherwise.

    Yirgacheffe are at their best IMO from 1-6 days post roast. PNG kimel beans peak beteen 5-9 days.

    I have made espresso with beans that have just been roasted and IMO they are better at this stage than they are 10 days on.

  6. #6
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    For me it's always a gain/loss equation.

    Right after roasting all the flavours are fresher and more 'separate', with an increased acidity due to the carbon-dioxide combining with the water to form an acid. After days, the tastes integrate and some of the lighter flavours seem to disappear into the mix.

    In general, the the big, bold, smooth beans are better fresher, the more acid ones (sharp tasting ones) I prefer more aged. Ethiopian Sidamo I regularly enjoy quite young, and I have an Australian MTE that I really dislike until it hits about 3 weeks.

    Of course, your preferences are yours, and preferences can't be wrong. Experiment and see what you like.

    Greg
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregWormald View Post
    For me it's always a gain/loss equation.

    Right after roasting all the flavours are fresher and more 'separate', with an increased acidity due to the carbon-dioxide combining with the water to form an acid. After days, the tastes integrate and some of the lighter flavours seem to disappear into the mix.

    In general, the the big, bold, smooth beans are better fresher, the more acid ones (sharp tasting ones) I prefer more aged. Ethiopian Sidamo I regularly enjoy quite young, and I have an Australian MTE that I really dislike until it hits about 3 weeks.

    Of course, your preferences are yours, and preferences can't be wrong. Experiment and see what you like.

    Greg
    Hi Greg,
    I think it is down to preference. I know when I drink coffee from the Toper commercial roaster,there is a leaning towards certain types of beans. The drum roaster brings out different nuances and flavours in certain beans, of a deeper and slightly more muddied flavour, than when I roast in the air roaster, or in the sample hot air gun breadmaker, the tones and taste are definitely more toppy, and the beans seem to last longer and take longer to mature to the level of which I enjoy drinking them.

    I also think there is a huge difference, in whether or not the beans are used for filter coffee or for espresso. As stated previously,some of the best espresso shots I have had have been from our shop roasted varieties that have been 20 days old or more. I have in my cupboard some Torrefacto which I brought back from Spain over six weeks ago, which I have used for sampling, to to make a blend from similar beans (origin not known at the time) for a company, and made some cafe con Leche today from that stock, and the taste was amazing.

    At this stage, I am no longer prepared to state categorically, how long beans will last when stored correctly.

  8. #8
    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    I think it depends on a number of things, which coffee it is, how it was roasted, how it's brewed or cupped.

    SCAA cupping guidelines state that coffee for cupping should be roasted within 24hrs of actual cupping but rest for no less than 8hrs. I participate in cupping sessions very regularly and also contribute roasted coffee for the table. On occasion, I, and others, have roasted coffee the same morning on the day and cupped it at 1pm. Most of the time I will roast the evening before.

    I know Trevor 'greenman' roasts a lot on his torre and I've heard him talk about brewing a filter coffee only an hour or so after roasting.

    Personally I like to wait a few days before brewing, sometimes more if it's a darker roast (eg espresso). I find brewing these coffees too early gives you a 'roast' taste (gassy or a sharp, sometimes obnoxious experience).

    I agree that some coffees really hit their sweet spot at certain times, even perhaps 10-14 days post-roast! Trial and error... learn from your own experiences

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I've been roasting in a Coretto for approx 3 years, 725g every 8 days or so.
    I tend to run a batch through when I'm down to enough beans to last me about 3 days, so I seldom use beans younger than 3 days or older than 8.

    I find most beans continue to improve marginally up to day 5 or 6 then level off.

    However there have been a few times that I've been away from home for up to a month and have had beans in sealed containers waiting for me on my return, must admit I've been pleasantly surprised by the shots I have pulled with the older beans, they seem to have lost very little in the way of flavour, body,crema etc, and shot timing has been very similar to fresher beans.

    I guess that keeping them in full sealed containers has been the key.
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  10. #10
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    I believe that a variation of Murphy's law also works with roasted beans - the very best flavour from any beans or blend, no matter what the age, comes from the last few beans in any given bag! You always seem to be left thinking "Darn - just getting really good as the bag ran out" :-)
    Matt
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    The beans which seems to taste better when matured, in my experience, Old Brown Java, Yirgacheff, Sidamo and some Colombians... mainly the Suarez.

  12. #12
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    ... so I seldom use beans younger than 3 days or older than 8. I find most beans continue to improve marginally up to day 5 or 6 then level off.
    ... must admit I've been pleasantly surprised by the shots I have pulled with the older beans.
    I seldom use beans rested for less than a week and find most improve from day 10 onward.

    Today I finished a bag that I roasted 3 weeks ago - a blend of Ethiopian Sumatran and Indian. I opened the bag a week ago (standard ziplock 1-way valve) and have been opening and closing it daily. It was at its best on Friday (Day 20) but almost ditched it on Wednesday (Day 18) when it seemed almost tasteless. It makes me wonder about bags I've cracked at Day 10 and then dumped at Day 14 or 15 because it seemed to lose its flavour.
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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JamesM;486557]

    I know Trevor 'greenman' roasts a lot on his torre and I've heard him talk about brewing a filter coffee only an hour or so after roasting'' UNQUOTE

    only because I am impatient to try out a new bean.......!!!!!
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  14. #14
    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    hahaha well said sir. I can't blame you!

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    The difference between 10 minute old coffee and 3 day old coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    I believe that a variation of Murphy's law also works with roasted beans - the very best flavour from any beans or blend, no matter what the age, comes from the last few beans in any given bag! You always seem to be left thinking "Darn - just getting really good as the bag ran out" :-)
    Matt
    Never a truer word spoken...

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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by garyw View Post
    The drum roaster brings out different nuances and flavours in certain beans, of a deeper and slightly more muddied flavour, than when I roast in the air roaster, or in the sample hot air gun breadmaker, the tones and taste are definitely more toppy, and the beans seem to last longer and take longer to mature to the level of which I enjoy drinking them.
    Anyone have a good explanation for the difference in time to mature from different roasting methods? My pet theory is that it relates to humidity and airflow during the roast. Dry air roasted; fluidised bed (pooper), coretto (open > lidded) and perforated drum should then take longer to peak than enclosed drum roasted coffee. I recall the guy in the ad for the Baby roaster, which is fully enclosed, pulling a shot directly after roasting. I have to admit this is an unproven theory, but I built my roaster to minimise dry air convection accordingly.

    What would be interesting is to experiment by daily cupping in parallel the same bean roasted by different methods. Anyone have a bit of time on their hands?

    Dave



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