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Thread: HeatSnob - modifications and hacks

  1. #1
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    HeatSnob - modifications and hacks

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello,
    I like to tinker with devices, and was able to pull up the heatsnob on an HID-API interface.
    I can get the binary readout of the temperature, but don't know how to convert that to celsius.
    I noted there are always 8 non-zero bytes in the read() result. And bytes 4...7 are changing.

    Would you please share how to convert to celsius?
    I want to screw around with my own C code to make graphs.

    Thank You,
    ~Bruce

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    Hi Bruce,

    I pulled mine apart to add a USB isolator to it, see this thread. (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roasting-tips-tricks-ideas/43209-heatsnob-grounding-errors-non-supplied-probes.html)

    The thermocouple amplifier is a Maxim MAX31855 and the micro is a PIC18F2550, no idea about the data protocol though.


    Gary
    Last edited by gazza; 14th April 2016 at 05:18 PM. Reason: missed a bit

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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza View Post
    Hi Bruce,

    I pulled mine apart to add a USB isolator to it, see this thread. (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roasting-tips-tricks-ideas/43209-heatsnob-grounding-errors-non-supplied-probes.html)

    The thermocouple amplifier is a Maxim MAX31855 and the micro is a PIC18F2550, no idea about the data protocol though.


    Gary
    Thanks Gary! I just pulled mine apart today too, before I read your post here.
    Took a look at the Maxim data sheet and was able to reverse engineer the encoding.
    I can extract the thermocouple temperature and internal temperature of the chip, now.
    Its pretty easy, using hid_api.

    It seems nobody else has tried this with a heatsnob before.
    I really like the Roast Monitor software, but I think its a nice option to be able to use this excellent little device with your own software, or link it into other software packages (like Artisan for example).

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce

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    Just a quick update.

    I have 2 HeatSnob temperature probes working in Artisan.
    Have to say, the HeatSnob device is very well designed and well built.
    And, the programming interface, using USB HID is pretty slick.

    If anybody is interested, let me know and I may be able to provide source code.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce

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    Good work Bruce.
    I've only just seen these posts (I'm overseas for another week odd). I split these posts from the other thread as it gets cleaned when a new version is released.

    Off the top of my head I don't know the details on the data output but there were some additional data bits from memory. Sometime after I return I'll hook-up with the developer and get a "spec for the output" from the HeatSnob and post in this new "Modification and Hack" thread.
    Dimal, gonzo89 and readeral like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    Just a quick update.

    I have 2 HeatSnob temperature probes working in Artisan.
    Have to say, the HeatSnob device is very well designed and well built.
    And, the programming interface, using USB HID is pretty slick.

    If anybody is interested, let me know and I may be able to provide source code.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce
    Good stuff - I've been roasting blind since my multimeter's dial's contacts corroded and one of the spring loaded contacts flew away somewhere when I tried to clean them up.

    Have resisted buying the heatsnob as wanted to move to Artisan because of source code availability. Will grab one next bean order. Appreciate your offer of sharing the source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Good work Bruce.
    I've only just seen these posts (I'm overseas for another week odd). I split these posts from the other thread as it gets cleaned when a new version is released.

    Off the top of my head I don't know the details on the data output but there were some additional data bits from memory. Sometime after I return I'll hook-up with the developer and get a "spec for the output" from the HeatSnob and post in this new "Modification and Hack" thread.
    Hi Andy,
    Appreciate the encouragement!
    And, glad to know that you are open to hacks & mods.
    Linking the device into the open source world will make increase its appeal for some folks, like me...

    The data sheet is available here:
    https://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/MAX31855.pdf

    The tricky part was figuring out how the chip output was mapped into the HID USB interface, which is best described by the source code, which I posted over at the Artisan web site, on issue #92.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonko View Post
    Good stuff - I've been roasting blind since my multimeter's dial's contacts corroded and one of the spring loaded contacts flew away somewhere when I tried to clean them up.

    Have resisted buying the heatsnob as wanted to move to Artisan because of source code availability. Will grab one next bean order. Appreciate your offer of sharing the source.
    Yes, source code availability is a big upside for me too. And, its nice to have an ecosystem with a few software options.
    I have been using RoastMaster until now, and am quite pleased with it, its done a good job for me.
    Excited to try something new though. My first roasts will Artisan will come this weekend.

    BTW, the source code is over at:
    https://github.com/artisan-roaster-s...isan/issues/92

    If you want to make it work with your heatsnob, you have to do the following:
    (1) Download hid_api version 0.7.0
    (2) Go to /mac directory inside hid_api directory. I have only tried mac, but I imagine windows would work equally well. hid_api is a well regarded cross-platform library.
    (3) Replace the hidtest.c file with my code posted at github.
    (4) type "make"
    (5) type "./hidtest" to run the application. It will find all heatsnob devices connected by USB, and report all their thermocouple temperatures.
    (6) Load Artisan, go to Config->Device->Program tabs and then set the path to the "hidtest" application.

    If you want to know whats going on in details, then type: ./hidtest verbose at the command prompt, and the program will dump a list of all usb devices, and hex/binary readouts of the chip, along with internal temperature of the chip.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce
    gonzo89, simonko, Agrajag and 1 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    Thanks for this Bruce, I have compiled your hidtest under linux, just couple of minor fixes required, not sure if copy/paste problem but there's a bunch of empty #includes at the top of your file. Also I had to add <stdio.h> and <string.h>. Not at home at the moment where my heatsnob is but can't see why it wouldn't work. I'll give it a go this afternoon and report back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
    I'll give it a go this afternoon and report back.
    Confirmed working in linux with artisan.

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    Glad to know you got it working!

    And, good catch, I did not even see that problem with the includes.
    The site where I posted, does not display they < > signs, so I changed the includes to "" and now you can see them.
    Also modified the instructions about how to compile. You have to go to hidtest directory and modify hidtest.cpp, and then go to /mac or /linux directory, type make, and then finally run it by typing ./hidtest.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce

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    G'day Bruce, I did my first actual roast with heatsnob + artisan. I just had the default artisan settings, 3 second sample, no oversampling or anything. It went pretty well but the curve/RoR was hard to follow in real time because it wasn't smooth. After the roast if I applied smoothing it looks nice but just wonder if you've found some good settings to use? I thought maybe increasing to 5 second samples and turning on oversampling might help?
    Last edited by Agrajag; 4th May 2016 at 02:56 PM. Reason: typo

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    Ok this is a revelation to me. I effectively binned the HeatSnob cause the Artisan documentation said it doesn't work with HID devices though I certainly tried. But I am not as tech savy as you guys.

    My sampling rate is 3 seconds with oversampling. Delta BT Span is 6 sec and Smooth Deltas is 10. My realtime ROR was off the chart when I first started. I did a lot of things to bring it under control so I'm not sure exactly what I did to resolve it TBH but playing with those settings helped. At least now it is only slightly bumpy and definitely usable. However note I'm not using the HeatSnob but a Centre 304 thermometer so maybe the settings are device specific. If you can show a screen grab of you ROR before smoothing I can tell you if mine is now better or worse than yours. I'm not roasting for a while but the next batch I'll try and remember to get a screen shot.

    Hope that helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    I effectively binned the HeatSnob cause the Artisan documentation said it doesn't work with HID devices
    Yeah it doesn't directly, this method is using an external program which reads the value from the heatsnob. Artisan has support for calling the external program which it reads from.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    I did a lot of things to bring it under control so I'm not sure exactly what I did to resolve it TBH but playing with those settings helped
    Yeah I reckon I'll end up just trying a few things and see what works, bit of trial and error it sounds like.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    If you can show a screen grab of you ROR before smoothing I can tell you if mine is now better or worse than yours.
    16-05-02_1959-indonesian-nosmoothing.png
    This was my first go (also new roaster - so ignore the overall profile, while I think not too bad, I didn't really have any idea what I was doing!)

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    Yep, mine started out much worse than that but now only deviates by about 10-20 C, so about that last blip in your chart in real time. As mentioned I did play around with many things but try the Delta BT Span and Smooth Delta and see how you go. Just run the roaster on manual and change the profile setting so you don't waste any beans.

    Btw are you using the tangent/interpolation line that predicts what the temperature will be in the future given the current ROR. Can't see it in your pic so not sure if you've discovered that setting. It is great. I use it all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
    G'day Bruce, I did my first actual roast with heatsnob + artisan. I just had the default artisan settings, 3 second sample, no oversampling or anything. It went pretty well but the curve/RoR was hard to follow in real time because it wasn't smooth. After the roast if I applied smoothing it looks nice but just wonder if you've found some good settings to use? I thought maybe increasing to 5 second samples and turning on oversampling might help?
    Ah, unfortunately, we are in the same boat now.
    I have the same problems; the curve you posted looks very familiar!

    I did some experimentation, by modifying my code to do 10 samples per second, average them, and dump those numbers out instead.
    Unfortunately, it does not help much.

    The temperature fluctuations have a period of about 3seconds to 10 seconds, and fluctuate +/- 2 celsius.
    Its very hard to smooth this kind of long wave random noise.

    The chip temperature which can also be accessed through the software, is rock solid stable.
    I believe this problem is unrelated to the software, but rather a ground isolation problem with the HeatSnob temperature probe circuitry.

    Are you using the probe that ships with the HeatSnob, or a 3rd party probe?

    You can see here that others have faced the same problems, even with the native software of the HeatSnob:
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roast...ed-probes.html

    As far as I can tell, you either need a special probe that is ungrounded, or you need to build a USB isolator circuit.
    Unfortunately, unless there is an easy way forward (not building a USB isolator circuit), its the end of the road for me with the Heat Snob.

    On the other hand, if you can live with no ROR, you can still use the temperature curves reasonably well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    The temperature fluctuations have a period of about 3seconds to 10 seconds, and fluctuate +/- 2 celsius.
    Hmm interesting. I was testing at room temperature, both with the supplied probe and a 3rd party one and wasn't getting those sort of fluctuations at all. Maybe it's different at roasting temps?

    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    I believe this problem is unrelated to the software, but rather a ground isolation problem with the HeatSnob temperature probe circuitry.
    In my behmor with the supplied probe using Roast Monitor I get a very smooth line? I don't think there would be anything inherently different between the probes would there? Note that the above graph wasn't done in my behmor.

    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    As far as I can tell, you either need a special probe that is ungrounded, or you need to build a USB isolator circuit.
    The same USB isolators that are quite cheap if you do a search on ebay? I've read elsewhere that grounding the roaster chasis helps. I'll have to do some more testing and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
    In my behmor with the supplied probe using Roast Monitor I get a very smooth line?
    Actually maybe it's not as smooth as I thought it was, here's an example:



    Bit hard to tell with the differing resolution here

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    According to the other thread I linked to, the instabilities happen with 3rd party probes, not with the supplied probe.
    My experiments show the fluctuations in my roaster at roasting temperatures, and outside the roaster, well isolated, at room temperature.

    Will take a look at usb isolators on ebay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    Ah, unfortunately, we are in the same boat now.
    As far as I can tell, you either need a special probe that is ungrounded, or you need to build a USB isolator circuit.
    Unfortunately, unless there is an easy way forward (not building a USB isolator circuit), its the end of the road for me with the Heat Snob.

    On the other hand, if you can live with no ROR, you can still use the temperature curves reasonably well.
    Ungrounded probes aren't special, they are just a different type. I think technically they are called Mineral Insulated Metal Sheath, MIMS for short which is what the Heatsnob probe is.

    You can still use a grounded probe but it needs to be electrically isolated from the roaster. The most practical way to do this is slide the probe into a high temp resistant silicon tubing so it doesn't touch the walls of the roaster. The computer you are using also needs to be not earthed which means using a laptop running on battery power. The moment you plug it into 240V it won't work. Took me ages to figure it out. In the end I just got MIMS probe, much easier.

    Yes you could possibly live without ROR but it's such a value tool I use it just as much at the Bean Temp. It's an essential part of for predicting bean temp for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    According to the other thread I linked to, the instabilities happen with 3rd party probes, not with the supplied probe.
    Not quite true. I use a 3rd party probe. Works fine.

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    Agree, I’m always using 3rd party flexible K type probe with my Behmor and Heatsnob. Usually shows +/- 0.5 degree difference and cost about $2. I put it into bended copper tube to measure bean temperature through the centre of the drum and add a bit of high temperature silicone into the end of tube for insulation. Works perfectly and curve is smooth as silk, no usb isolator required.

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    Hmm, that is interesting. Will do some more experimentation this weekend.
    It will be interesting to know why some folks see this and others do not.
    Or perhaps the RoastMaster software does a better job of suppressing the variations than Artisan.

    Also, might be my macbook pro laptop, or the temperature probes I chose (2 different type k probes from 2 different manufacturers off Amazon).

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    I haven't had time to do another roast yet but did test the heatsnob + probe + artisan at room temp. No fluctuations at all, very steady, both with supplied and 3rd party probe. The 3rd party probe I have I believe is ungrounded, so something else must've been going on in my roast or I just need play with artisan settings. Will test with another roast soon.

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    Just did my 2nd roast with heatsnob + artisan. Got great readings, super smooth, not erratic, very happy with it. No idea what was up with my first go!



    No smoothing, 3sec sample interval, no oversampling.
    Last edited by Agrajag; 12th May 2016 at 10:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
    Just did my 2nd roast with heatsnob + artisan. Got great readings, super smooth, not erratic, very happy with it. No idea what was up with my first go!
    .
    Glad to know you are having success! Looks like my troubles are unique to me. Could be my macbook or my thermocouples. I bought a Phidgets setup and it works fine with my thermocouples in Artisan, while the heatsnob still does not want to be stable.

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    I'm using a TC4+Arduino with Artisan and it's pretty unstable as well. I've just tweaked it as best I can and put up with it... :-/

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I'm using a TC4+Arduino with Artisan and it's pretty unstable as well. I've just tweaked it as best I can and put up with it... :-/
    With a phidgets usb in Artisan, its much more stable than the heat snob, but still more unstable that I believe it should be.
    I confirmed that my thermocouple is grounded. Have an ungrounded type-k on order, will post back if it makes a significant difference in stability.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    .....I'll try and remember to get a screen shot....
    As promised, admittedly ages ago, light green line is the ROR. First screen shot is before smoothing, second is after smoothing.

    ROR eg.JPG

    ROR eg 2.JPG

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    Hey Bruce, how'd your ungrounded turn out? Should I buy one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    Yes, source code availability is a big upside for me too. And, its nice to have an ecosystem with a few software options.
    I have been using RoastMaster until now, and am quite pleased with it, its done a good job for me.
    Excited to try something new though. My first roasts will Artisan will come this weekend.

    BTW, the source code is over at:
    https://github.com/artisan-roaster-s...isan/issues/92

    If you want to make it work with your heatsnob, you have to do the following:
    (1) Download hid_api version 0.7.0
    (2) Go to /mac directory inside hid_api directory. I have only tried mac, but I imagine windows would work equally well. hid_api is a well regarded cross-platform library.
    (3) Replace the hidtest.c file with my code posted at github.
    (4) type "make"
    (5) type "./hidtest" to run the application. It will find all heatsnob devices connected by USB, and report all their thermocouple temperatures.
    (6) Load Artisan, go to Config->Device->Program tabs and then set the path to the "hidtest" application.

    If you want to know whats going on in details, then type: ./hidtest verbose at the command prompt, and the program will dump a list of all usb devices, and hex/binary readouts of the chip, along with internal temperature of the chip.

    Cheers,
    ~Bruce
    Hi Bruce,

    I seem to get the following error using the instructions. I must admit im just following your instructions without really having an understanding of compiling/linux programming. I'm on a mac. Any hints or suggestions?

    g++ -I../hidapi -Wall -g -c ../hidtest/hidtest.cpp -o ../hidtest/hidtest.o
    ../hidtest/hidtest.cpp:1:1: error: expected unqualified-id
    `/************************************************** *****
    ^
    ../hidtest/hidtest.cpp:284:1: error: expected unqualified-id
    `
    ^
    2 errors generated.
    make: *** [../hidtest/hidtest.o] Error 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by leonmok View Post
    I seem to get the following error using the instructions.
    The first character ` shouldn't be there. Copy/pasting from that github issue page has some problems, try downloading this file instead
    leonmok likes this.

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    Thanks Agrajag. Seems to have worked. Will have to check with the heatsnob when I get home

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    I'm getting a message "unable to open device" after I run hidtest. Any ideas?

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    Hi Bruce or others!
    I need your help if I can! I'm a relatively tech savvy.... but this is well beyond!
    I've downloaded the hidapi - ver 7
    I went into the hidtest.cpp and copy and pasted your code.
    I'm confused with Step 4 and step 5. Do I type make into the hidtest.cpp? then type ./hitest??? what application am I running here? In what dir?
    So far... after copying your text into the hidtest.cpp I hit the makefile in the mac directory and it just shows all these errors?



    Last login: Mon Jul 10 19:15:49 on ttys000
    John-van-Veenendaals-MacBook-Pro:~ rayvv$ /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile ; exit;
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 9: all:: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 15: CPPOBJS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 15: COBJS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 16: -Wall: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 17: IOKit: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 20: OBJS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 20: hidtest:: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 21: LIBS: command not found
    clang: error: no such file or directory: '$^'
    clang: error: no input files
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 23: COBJS: command not found
    clang: error: no input files
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 24: CFLAGS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 24: -o: No such file or directory
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 26: CPPOBJS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 27: CXX: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 27: CFLAGS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 27: -o: No such file or directory
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 29: clean:: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 30: CPPOBJS: command not found
    /Users/rayvv/Downloads/hidapi-0.7.0/mac/Makefile: line 32: .PHONY:: command not found
    logout
    Saving session...
    ...copying shared history...
    ...saving history...truncating history files...
    ...completed.


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    Did anyone get this working with Windows - Heatsnob and Artisan? I'm keen to have a go.

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    would love to know too and how you did it....

    Quote Originally Posted by dungee View Post
    Did anyone get this working with Windows - Heatsnob and Artisan? I'm keen to have a go.
    would love to know too and how you did it....

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    Just reviving this old thread. Has anyone managed to get heatsnob to work with artisan in Windows 10?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretzal View Post
    Just reviving this old thread. Has anyone managed to get heatsnob to work with artisan in Windows 10?
    I don't know the answer to that as I've always used and love RoastMonitor but I've been talking to the developer who has given me the details that someone would need to get Artisan to work with HeatSnob.


    HeatSnob conforms to the USB HID specification, with a Vendor id (VID) of 04D8 and a Product id (PID) of F899 and uses a MAX31855 chipset.

    It sends packets of 32-bits (eight bytes) comprising in sequence:


    8 bits unused
    8 bits Major revision # - currently 0000001
    8 bits Minor revision # - currently 0000001
    1 bit sign (0 if probe temperature is positive, 1 if negative)
    13 bits probe temperature in units of 0.25 degrees Celsius.
    1 bit unused
    1 bit fault indicator - if set to 1, a specific fault will also be indicated below
    1 bit sign (0 if ambient temperature is positive, 1 if negative)
    11 bits ambient temperature in units of 0.0625 degrees Celsius.
    1 bit unused
    1 bit probe to power short circuit fault
    1 bit probe to ground short circuit fault
    1 bit probe is open circuit fault
    8 bits A sequence number that increases by 1 each time


    You might be able to find an Artisan developer that can use the above to make it work with Artisan?
    Javaphile, mr_walker and Pretzal like this.



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