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Thread: Coretto profiling for aeropress

  1. #1
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    Coretto profiling for aeropress

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I've been using a coretto roaster for years now, and still trying to dial in my roasts. I'm always experimenting with different profiles and beans, and was reading through many of the posts here as a lot of you use or have used a coretto system in the past.

    I currently am using a porter cable heat gun with the variable temp knob, closed system, thermocouple 1/2 inch from the bottom, roasting 300g batches. Data logger is enroute to simplify tracking roasts.





    Currently I'm using a Rao style declining profile hitting FC depending on the bean at 8-9 minutes at 395-410F, and stopping at 12ish minutes just hitting the first few snaps of SC. I feel I have enough overhead to hit any curve I want with this system. The roasts are tasty, tend to bring out bright, fruity tones. I'd like to smooth out the flavor more to temper the fruits and bring out the chocolatey elements.

    I see roast times here from 12-22 minutes total roast time, and am surprised as such a huge range. Are the long roasts primarily aimed at taming acidity for espresso? Are any of you using longer roasts for pour over or aeropress? The few roasts I've done in the 18 minute range tasted totally flat, though that was early in my roasting days.

    My last roast of Guat Hue. I took a little longer, with a Seattle dip at 280-320, FC at 10 min, ended just shy of SC at 13:30, and was smoother, but almost too mild/low intensity, but only 2d of rest at this point, so I'm curious how this will develop over the next week.



    Thanks for your thoughts guys.

    Best,
    C.
    Last edited by charliekilo; 19th April 2016 at 03:06 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Set up looks the goods.

    As you have found out long roasts will flatten the flavour profile, particularly for filter coffee, but can be beneficial for some origins to tame them for up dosed low extraction yield espresso. One mans flat and baked is another smooth and creamy.

    Stick with your declining rate of rise profiles for manual brewing / filter coffee. Keeping the times around 12 mins is fine. If you want to tame or balance the acidity better, try getting your profile so that you have 3 mins to 100C from your turning point. Then another 3 min to the beans turning yellow. Using lower temps coupled with lower airflow helps to properly develop the seed from the inside out, but can result in having to roast even smaller batches.

    Assuming you have used enough heat at the start, this then allows a quick ramp of 3 to 3.5 mins to first crack - but with a curve that is slowly always taping off to the finish, this will preserve volatile fruits / florals. Your desired finish time from the onset of first crack may be anywhere from 2 to 3.20 min.

    Getting all this to happen within the confines of an overall declining rate of rise curve without blasting the beans with too much heat at the start to establish the high delta point needed after the turn is not easy, particularly with a corretto that has such low thermal mass. Insulating the roaster can help a lot.
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  3. #3
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi Charlie
    Times will vary depending on roaster dynamics (insulation / airflow etc) batch size, brew method and bean type. Fwiw my 350g batches are done using gentle fan and take about 18 mins while my 750g batches are on hi flow and take about 23mins.
    From what I've found, a faster start then declining profile will give greater acidity while a gentler start then ramping temps, giving a flatter profile, will give a smoother result in the cup. Starting really slow then ramping hard late will give baked flavours (found this out last week )
    I've found some good aero press results from using my standard ramping profile but slowing the rise a bit more than usual after first crack and dropping around 5 degrees earlier than usual for those beans to reduce the toasty flavours.
    Although I'm not sure that trying to get those flavours in the aero press will do many favours unless you're drinking with milk like a plunger? Most aero press drinkers like long black style brews. But if you do want that then espresso roast profiles will work fine - just on second crack
    Cheers Matt
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  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Starting really slow then ramping hard late will give baked flavours (found this out last week
    Which batch was this one Matt?

    Mal.

  5. #5
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    I think that was a gambella sundried - the day was much colder than I thought so my preheat and drop temps were too low. I then spent the rest of the roast chasing to catch up. The time ended up the same as I would usually do for these beans - but the flavour was chalky and flat ....
    I think the profile is in the "what's in my roaster " thread
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  6. #6
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    What a bugger, eh?

    When I first started out roasting in a Corretto, I used to try and emulate profiles that worked pretty well in my modified Popper, i.e. most batches finishing at around 12-14 minutes and a typical tapering finish. These batches were never all that spectacular to be honest (although they were terrific in the Popper) and that's when I started searching around for a better way of doing things. Happened upon Willem Boot's roasting website eventually, and after trying to emulate profiles that he recommended, the results in the cup immediately started to improve.

    This was all done with batches of around 500-600g of green with total roast times of about 18 minutes. In particular, I discovered that the results in the cup that I really enjoyed, were from profiles that had a rising rate of change after 150-160Deg.C bean mass temp and that is what I stuck with for quite some time. As I slowly increased batch sizes, the overall batch time stretched out too, naturally enough. It wasn't until I saw your "Seattle Dip" profiles that I thought "Why not?" and decided to give these a try.

    In my opinion, this has made a significant improvement to the end results in the cup, where it counts and I have never felt the need to go back to the straight ramp profiles with an accelerating finish that I used for several years...
    Kudos to you mate...

    Mal.

  7. #7
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Kinds words Mal - thanks
    I don't mind the occasional variation / mistake from my usual - good way of reminding myself why I ended up with the profile I use now!
    It is nice though to be in a consistently good zone with General roasting technique - it makes handling the variations in origins so much easier to manage - mainly small tweaks rather than huge profile changes.
    It is also cool (though a little bit scary in a nerd kinda way) when you can sample commercial beans and almost see their profile swimming before your eyes!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post
    Set up looks the goods.

    As you have found out long roasts will flatten the flavour profile, particularly for filter coffee, but can be beneficial for some origins to tame them for up dosed low extraction yield espresso. One mans flat and baked is another smooth and creamy.

    Stick with your declining rate of rise profiles for manual brewing / filter coffee. Keeping the times around 12 mins is fine. If you want to tame or balance the acidity better, try getting your profile so that you have 3 mins to 100C from your turning point. Then another 3 min to the beans turning yellow. Using lower temps coupled with lower airflow helps to properly develop the seed from the inside out, but can result in having to roast even smaller batches.

    Assuming you have used enough heat at the start, this then allows a quick ramp of 3 to 3.5 mins to first crack - but with a curve that is slowly always taping off to the finish, this will preserve volatile fruits / florals. Your desired finish time from the onset of first crack may be anywhere from 2 to 3.20 min.

    Getting all this to happen within the confines of an overall declining rate of rise curve without blasting the beans with too much heat at the start to establish the high delta point needed after the turn is not easy, particularly with a corretto that has such low thermal mass. Insulating the roaster can help a lot.
    Thanks Steve. I haven't tried a start that slow, hitting yellow (150C) at 6 minutes. My previous target has been for 4 minutes, or on a "slow" profile, 5.

    I don't think I'll have much issue controlling the temp without serious heat input. I know a lot of people have insulated the pan to help with system thermal retention and lower gun input. I took a different approach and left the bread maker burner circuit intact and put it on its own switch. It seemed like running the element in conjunction with the gun would allow lower gun input temps and a lower fan speed, decreasing air input and making the system more drum-like. So far I prefer the taste of roasts where I've used the element with the heat gun to those with the heat gun only.

    I tried wrapping the pan with the fire blanket and wire, but couldn't get it in the roaster without removing the element (didn't think that one out), which I was unwilling to do - so I don't have an A B comparison between the two.

    I'll plot out your suggested roast curve and give it a go.

    Best,
    Christopher
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  9. #9
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    Coretto profiling for aeropress

    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Hi Charlie
    Times will vary depending on roaster dynamics (insulation / airflow etc) batch size, brew method and bean type. Fwiw my 350g batches are done using gentle fan and take about 18 mins while my 750g batches are on hi flow and take about 23mins.
    From what I've found, a faster start then declining profile will give greater acidity while a gentler start then ramping temps, giving a flatter profile, will give a smoother result in the cup. Starting really slow then ramping hard late will give baked flavours (found this out last week )
    I've found some good aero press results from using my standard ramping profile but slowing the rise a bit more than usual after first crack and dropping around 5 degrees earlier than usual for those beans to reduce the toasty flavours.
    Although I'm not sure that trying to get those flavours in the aero press will do many favours unless you're drinking with milk like a plunger? Most aero press drinkers like long black style brews. But if you do want that then espresso roast profiles will work fine - just on second crack
    Cheers Matt
    Very helpful info Matt. Do you find with the extra bean mass at 750g that you have to slow the entire roast to keep from scorching the exterior from excessive gun temps? It seems like that larger roast will have a different flavor (smoother) profile by necessity?

    I do use milk, as I prefer the texture and richness it brings to the drink. That being said, I like a variety of coffee, depending on my mood - everything from a laid back smooth central, to a brighter fruity Ethiopian, I rotate my roasts all the time depending on what I'm up for that week. I also roast for my brother, who's not so into bright/fruity coffees and this thread is proving really helpful to target ways to tame his coffee without completely losing the origin flavours by taking it too dark.

    I need to search here for your "basic profile". Pretty sure I've seen many times.

    Best,
    Christopher
    Last edited by charliekilo; 21st April 2016 at 07:50 AM.

  10. #10
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    Coretto profiling for aeropress

    Now on day 4 for my Guatamalan roast above, which is longer and a more stretched development phase than most of my recent roasts. The profile is a lot smoother, and has turned out to be a very drinkable daily cup - getting better each day. I look forward to how the cup will progress over the next week. On day 2 it was so bad (one dimensional, bready, and a hint ashy), I almost pitched the whole roast! Glad I didn't, it's turning into a whole different coffee now.

    Best,
    C.

  11. #11
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by charliekilo View Post
    Very helpful info Matt. Do you find with the extra bean mass at 750g that you have to slow the entire roast to keep from scorching the exterior from excessive gun temps? It seems like that larger roast will have a different flavor (smoother) profile by necessity?

    I do use milk, as I prefer the texture and richness it brings to the drink. That being said, I like a variety of coffee, depending on my mood - everything from a laid back smooth central, to a brighter fruity Ethiopian, I rotate my roasts all the time depending on what I'm up for that week. I also roast for my brother, who's not so into bright/fruity coffees and this thread is proving really helpful to target ways to tame his coffee without completely losing the origin flavours by taking it too dark.

    I need to search here for your "basic profile". Pretty sure I've seen many times.

    Best,
    Christopher
    Hi Chris
    Yes, I did have to stretch out the roast when I went to bigger batch sizes. The simple reality was that the greater mass required more time - think minute steak vs a nice thick scotch fillet. Doesn't mean the larger batch is overdone - but just takes longer for the full batch to get to a nice 'medium' espresso roast depth
    I'm away currently, but pm me if you can't find the profile guide thingy and I'll send it through when I return.
    Cheers Matt



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