Post By fg1972
Post By medalbandit
Post By chokkidog
Post By Agrajag
Post By chokkidog
Post By Agrajag
Serious home roasting
Dear Coffee Snobs,
I'm going to buy a Giesen roasting machine to place in my home. I have some theoretical experience in roasting but not actual experience. I want to roast only for my coffee shop. My questions are, in my area, there are no regulations. As a result, can i install the machine without a ventilation? I plan to place the machine in a big store in my home, about 40 sqm. What are the consequences if i didn’t put a ventilation. Will it blow the place with clouds? if i install a ventilation will it be producing alot of smoke outside the neighbourhood? i mean something that is really observable?
My next question, is it risky. Could it lead to making any fire in the area. Although i thing this question is silly, i thought it is important to bring it in. The machine will be installed by the company provided i give them a place like i said a store in my home. However, what equipment’s do i need to put in the place, any suggestions. Apart from alot of green beans that i plan to put.
lastly, I’m thinning either to go for a 6 Kilo Giesen or 1 kilo. Even the 1 Kilo is enough for one small coffee shop. However, it is really tempting to go 6 kilo. Obviously, the 1 kilo will not generate in any problems rahthar than the 6.
Your advice is very much appreciated.
There are a few threads on this topic, but a different roaster. I would give them a search and read. The regulations are very specific when it comes to pollution from these types of activities and can vary from council to council about operating in a domestic vs industrial zone.
Even if you were to use a pop corn maker to roast 100 grams of coffee beans or 400 grams with a heat gun into a pan (corretto), you're likely to need some kind of ventilation as the roasting process will produce smoke. If you're looking at roasting 1 kilo batches, there will be more smoke, and obviously loads more with 6 kilo batches.
Whatever the case, you'll need to redirect the exhaust outside somehow, either via a flue, or flexible heat resistant duct through a window or similar. If you don't and the exhaust remains in the room, your eyes will burn and you might die.
If smoke is an issue for others in the area, you might need to look into getting an afterburner to reduce the odour especially if you're thinking about a larger capacity roaster. Another thing to consider with a larger capacity roaster is that it would be difficult if you were to do smaller batches, ie; hard to properly roast 1kg in a 6kg roaster.
Hope this helps.
Thanks a lot,
This definitely helps. I was just trying to get a full idea of the nature of my action. In fact, it does not make sense not to install a ventilation system. The question is will the smoke getting outside the premise be a lot ? In other words, is it very visible. Or is it like a smoke that a heavy kitchen produces. I’m actually looking to roast about a couple of hours a week. Maybe 2-3 times. Just for my coffee shop usage.
I'm not a large quantity roasting expert, from my observations from these big machines, the smoke that comes out is very noticeable at the flu and not so much within 10 meters. IMHO, they don't put out more smoke than a wood fire, but the smell is a lot more noticeable / pungent. I've not met someone who thinks the smell is disgusting.
The closest roaster to me is in a built up area and you can smell it 100m away.
Afterburner, or some sort of "roasting bong" could take the majority of the smell/smoke away.
I have a 2kg roaster set up in my garage with a flexible flu going out a window and attached to the gutter.
Smoke is very visible especially in the latter parts of the roast.
I always wait until a day with a decent breeze is blowing to dissipate the smoke, I have not had a complaint from neighbours during the eight years I have been roasting.
A larger roaster would produce considerably more smoke and would need a more efficient flu/smoke control system.
As per the above comments, it's visible towards the end of the roast but it's probably more the odour that makes it noticeable. With small batches, I don't think you have too much to worry about. I have a 2kg roaster with the exhaust going to the outside via a flue through the ceiling of my garage, my neighbours notice the pleasant smell but never had any complaints. I even managed to convert 1 of the neighbours who previously did not like coffee to enjoying my coffee.
Originally Posted by Meshaal
You have provided zero context for what's outside and hence it's impossible to gauge what could or MIGHT NOT be possible in any sense of practicality.
I'm also a bit amused by your "theoretical experience but not actual experience of roasting" statement. In other words you are starting from ground zero and don't have any experience whatsoever - which is fine, everyone needs to start somewhere, but if you are in Australia and live in capital city, I would suggest you are going about this all the wrong way and need to engage somebody with local knowledge and more importantly the experience of having done this sort of thing before.
A 6kg roaster is a commercial device and installing it in a residential area with close neighboring property is going to end in tears without some sort of emissions treatment.
Untreated smoke from a 6kg or larger roaster is visible 400+ meters away, and the smell much farther depending upon the conditions at the time.
If you are in Australia, you are advised to contact the council before planning anything like what you have in mind and in addition check your home insurance for exclusions in the policy. All it takes is someone complaining on a hot day with their windows open and you will have the police around, then the council and on it goes.
If you are in Victoria, I doubt you will ever get your Type B appliance approved by Energy Safe Victoria if it's housed inside of a residential property - having commissioned 6 large roasters it's getting tougher each time, even in specialized Industrial warehouses. Mechanical ventilation is not 100% safe and therefore poses a risk to such an appliance - it will be required to install flow through ventilation and this needs to be sized correctly based on air changes.
The internet is full of such roasters installed in the most bizarre places. That might be OK for those locations, but some jurisdictions have safe and responsible by laws designed to protect humans.
BTW - odours are apparent from the beginning of the roast and smoke from halfway......depending upon flue size (pressure).
The $$ you need to spend on a 6kg Geisen roaster - why the heck can't you do it properly in a small warehouse like commercial operators are supposed to. I'd also be surprised if you can actually get it into your home without damaging the floors or walls ! Home is not the place for producing commercial coffee products. The romance of the beautiful images on the internet hide some basic simple truths - roasting is dirty, noisy, smelly, hot and smokey - it's industrial.
You don't tell us where you are from but.....
If you're in Australia you will come up against regulations from both your local council and from your state government, you will also have to deal with your insurance provider.
Make sure that your installer is qualified to deal with B Type appliances.
Your installer will deal with the state government but you will be responsible for ensuring that they do, and that they provide you with the necessary approvals and certificates.
You will have to deal with your council yourself, both the planning department ( for the installation) and with the health department ( for the food production).
In Victoria you will need hot and cold running water to the roasting space and which is not shared with the residential area.
I have installed two roasters in Victorian rural residential premises, one a 5kg and the current 15kg (installed 2017) and both had/have ESV approval.
Ventilation is paramount, to gain approval you will need to have both high and low ventilation ports in the building, sized accordingly by room and flue dimensions and maximum burner output.
These vent ports are not supposed to be obstructed or covered and are designed so that you will not perish from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Complaints from neighbours are your biggest concern as the council can shut you down. Smoke and odour complaints are the most obvious and to continue operating
the council may require an afterburner. These are expensive and energy hungry and if you are in an urban or metropolitan environment with a savvy council it may be a condition
to approval anyway. This may make your plan unviable.
There is no reason that your plan to roast one day a week isn't possible, you're not really dealing with commercial quantities so disregard any advice that says you must be in an
industrial area. We are over governed but not that much.... yet.
Do not install a 1 or 2 kg roaster if you are roasting for a cafe. The time it takes to produce even 30 kgs in such modest machines will be crippling, the ability to achieve consistency
almost impossible for a novice. 30 kgs of roasted coffee from a 1 kg machine would require possibly 40 (or more) roasts.
An alternative might be for you to purchase beans and contract your roasting to an already established business.
In a previous thread OP has said they are in the Middle East.
Aaaaah.... cheers Agrajag. I'm not on CS often enough these days to see all the threads, I looked on his profile but like many there's nothin'.
So for Meshaal.... the only things you can take from the above posts, including mine is... you may receive complaints about smoke,
if your small roasting space is not ventilated you might pass out or even away and that a 1 or 2 kg machine is not an option.
hah. Yeah I mean you gave a heap of excellent information, it's not like we just have regulations for the fun of it, I'd say he'd do well to listen to the advice he's been given regardless of location. Even in the middle of the desert with no one around for kms.
Originally Posted by chokkidog
Thanks a lot guys for the advice,
As i said previously, I’m really not thinking of putting a machine without a ventilation system. I was just curious. Obviously, you can tell I’m a big newbie I had a laugh. It is in the Middle east yes, however, this is by no means non-regulated countries.