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Thread: 2nd attempt was better

  1. #1
    Member skeevs's Avatar
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    2nd attempt was better

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey guys,

    I picked up a Behmor 1600+ from a fellow CSer last weekend and just starting on this home roasting journey. On my 1st attempt I tried a full automatic P1 200g roast. As expected, the outcome was not great at all. Grassy + sour tastes on the 2nd day. So I let is rest for a few more days, tried it again but still was on the sour side. Not to mention roast seemed quite uneven.

    So I did more reading around old posts here and watched couple of youtube vids. Last friday after getting home from work I went into my garage with some India Elephant Hills aka "beginner" beans in hand. Fired up the behmor and away we went.

    On my 2nd attempt of roasting beans ..
    IMG_4714.JPGIMG_4715.JPG

    Pretty happy about the outcome. It's been resting for past 3 days so hoping it tastes as good as it looks. Did I land somewhere in a medium roast? (Compared it to another medium roast, does look like it)

    Also, I was on manual mode and mostly keeping the behmor between 150c-160c for the whole roast, I was wondering if that is a good temperature to hover on or should it be higher ?

    Thanks,
    Perry
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  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    G'day Perry...

    Looks to be close to a medium roast by colour but can't make out enough detail of the beans' surfaces to note the texture accurately. What ever happens, the roast looks to be nice and even with the beans well past 1st-Crack so you should be in for some delightful in the cup results.

    Can't help you with the roast temperature you're referring to but no doubt a fellow Behmor aficionado will be along soon to help out with that...

    Mal.
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  3. #3
    Member skeevs's Avatar
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    Thanks Dimal! Have been tasting the beans above and just happy it doesn't taste burnt or ashy at this point so thats a good sign.

    I've linked a close-up photo of the India Elephant Hills batch above https://imgur.com/a/jbZdEAA

    Also just received a fresh batch of Decaf Wow and Peru Seja AAA. Talk about fast delivery just after 1 day! Anyhow I got straight to roasting the Peru beans after reading about how easy and similar it is to the India Elephant Hills. I did roughly the same manual profile with the beans above, might've left it after FC a little longer. Possibly heard 1-2 snaps of SC(still figuring things out). Hit cool at that point.

    The beans came out looking like a slight uneven roast : https://imgur.com/a/03k5mZW
    Didn't quite get the same aroma I did with the beans above right after roasting somewhat. What I'm wondering is if this is just the normal outlook on a slightly darker roast?
    Last edited by skeevs; 22nd November 2018 at 10:16 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeevs View Post
    Grassy + sour tastes on the 2nd day. So I let is rest for a few more days, tried it again but still was on the sour side.
    Some roasts require 2 weeks resting to get a true indication. Light/medium roasts seem to do better with slightly higher brew temp. Sourness may be due to brew temp being a bit low? Try 95C (203F) brew temp or a little above and see if sourness disappears.

    Quote Originally Posted by skeevs View Post
    The beans came out looking like a slight uneven roast https://imgur.com/a/03k5mZW
    Didn't quite get the same aroma I did with the beans above right after roasting somewhat. What I'm wondering is if this is just the normal outlook on a slightly darker roast?
    You'll find different beans on the same Behmor profile will behave in their own unique way. Even different batches and ages will have their own characteristics. Batch size (200g, 400g) on the same profile can vary slightly. I sometimes find 200g batches less uniform in roast color and a little more prone to slight scorching than 400g.

    Try using the Rosetta Stone time reset feature (press C) upon start of first crack. Also experiment with power % adjustment after first crack especially if you're getting scorching. Read up on the different profiles (P1, P2, P3 etc) in the manual and relationship to Hard/Soft bean varities.

    At the end of the day, how it tastes in the cup will tell you how you're going.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 22nd November 2018 at 10:48 AM.
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  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeevs View Post
    I've linked a close-up photo of the India Elephant Hills batch above https://imgur.com/a/jbZdEAA
    Always difficult to judge by colour via a computer monitor but just by the surface texture, I would say that these were on the cusp of starting 2nd-Crack. Keep taking notes as you work your way through this batch, so that you can get a better handle on flavour development over time for future reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by skeevs View Post
    The beans came out looking like a slight uneven roast : https://imgur.com/a/03k5mZW
    Yes, they do look a little unusual for the Peruvian beans we usually get but don't be put off by the variability. It's quite noticeable that the bean size varies a little and this can contribute to the appearance of a slightly uneven roast result. Best to see how this batch works in the cup before making any decisions though, as "CafeLotta" says...

    Mal.
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  6. #6
    Member skeevs's Avatar
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    Thanks CafeLotta/Dimal. Your feedback got me looking into hard vs. soft beans. Now I get what that manual was trying to prescribe with the different automated profiles.

    Got to start tasting the 1st batch of Peruvian roasted beans, surprisingly was good and chocolatey! I can only imagine it'll be better with right roast profiles.

    Now that I've understood difference between soft/hard beans, I roasted 2nd batch of the beans on the weekend. I did one of the "hard beans slow ramp up" profiles and got to FC at around 13 mins.

    The results from 1st batch (left) and 2nd batch(right) of the Peruvian beans : https://imgur.com/a/UuNokob
    It looks like the beans on the left has really expanded in size and more "wrinkly" surface texture.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeevs View Post
    It looks like the beans on the left has really expanded in size and more "wrinkly" surface texture.
    Good to hear you're on the way with wrangling that Behmor!

    I've found that the swelling/expansion of the beans is a good indicator of whether you're in the ballpark for profiles. It can also be a good indicator of whether beans are fresh or getting a bit old. If you weigh your beans accurately before and after a roast, you should typically see between 15-20% weight loss. Lighter roasts closer to 15%, darker closer to 20% as a rough guide. I've also found old beans lose less weight probably due to moisture loss in storage over time(?). Beans that swell nicely like those on the left, show that they're still fresh and that the profile is suitable, in my opinion. The one's on the right look like the profile was wrong and that they baked a bit rather than roasted. I'd stick with the profile used on the one's to the left. Maybe experiment by manually dropping the heat a tad at first crack.

    I think Mal's probably a better judge of the roasted beans in the photo. Hopefully he'll have a look and comment.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 26th November 2018 at 02:33 PM.
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  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Hi again Perry...

    CafeLotta is spot-on I believe.
    The batch on the left should close to ideal ideal I reckon too.
    The R/H batch though, looks very uneven to me with some beans almost looking close to charcoal, so maybe the batch sat at a higher than desirable temperature for a bit too long and given the variation in grading of the bean sizes, it is understandable.

    I'd also advise sticking with the original profile but in the end, it's what's in the cup that counts and only you can decide what tastes best to you.

    You're doing really well though mate and learning this fine collaboration between science and art is most of the fun, and the good news? You never stop learning...

    Mal.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Another good tip that's often brought up is to keep a detailed roasting log which will really help with the journey. Start with the basic info such as date, bean type, Roast profile, weight, etc. even ambient room temp. Add to this time left on clock at first crack, if 'C' was then pushed to reset time for Rosetta stone timings, roasted weight loss (400g to 340g 15% loss), any additional inputs such as manually controling power after first crack, "Hit cool at *:** left on clock". Whatever you can think of that may be useful. Even time rested and tasting notes. Use the same format with important base information first for quick reference and detailed additions below. Also keep a log of when you clean the machine and run dry burns for maintenance. Keeping track of the roast no. for the machine helps with this and gives you a tally overall. Good idea to mark a date on the bag when you buy Green Beans. As your selection builds its easy to end up with the odd bag of old forgotten beans.
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