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Thread: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

  1. #1
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    Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    After experimenting with various roast levels, I think Ive come to the conclusion that I like the darker roasts better than lighter ones. Dont really know how to appreciate the fruitiness in lighter roasts but I really like the flavour that comes from darker roasts. What beans would suit dark roasting and still have a decent flavour come across? With the monsooned malabar, Ive concluded that this bean is best pulled at the first snap of SC. So what beans would you take deep which ones you wouldnt?

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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Hi NTE I think it largely depends on brewing method used. The middle eastern grocer I go to tend to sell nearly all South American beans and they are all dark so maybe a Brazilian coffee.
    I know the Brazilian Ipenema I got from beanbay has a big caffiene hit and it roasts well quite dark C/S 10

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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Ill only have them as espressos or espresso base for a latte.

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Ive just roasted a couple of batches of Ethiopian Wild Picked beans and taking to just on SC gave a very fruity espresso, whereas when I took the roast past SC to rolling it was an intense chocolate/cocoa flavour.

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    I will second the Ethiopian or the South American beans they develop deep choc flavours in the darker roasts. I havent had that much experience at roasting (less than 30 but I have not had any trouble with these.

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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    So far Ive done the darker roasts with a few beans and this is what Ive found so far:

    Indian Mysore Nuggets - OK but not particularly strong, a bit weak in milk
    Brazil Daterra Sweet - Again, ok but not particularly a standout flavour-wise. Has a touch of ashy or burnt hint to it.
    Rwanda Cyangugu - This one packs a punch, and requires a coarser grind than the rest
    Timor Leste Arabica A - This one is actually pretty good at darker roast levels
    Ethiopian Yirgacheffe - pick of the bunch so far, very good flavourwise both as espresso and in milk.

    I base these flavour comparisons using the Obscura Dark Horse blend as the measuring stick. The Yirg and Timorese come close to it, but I still cant quite get to the flavours and sensations I got when I tried the Obscura Dark Horse blend. (A bit of a plug but well worthy of it for Obscura) It was thsi blend that got me started in trying to discover the darker roasts.


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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    As youve discovered NTE,

    Theres no rule of thumb for roasting any particular bean type to a colour, that will in turn result in flavours in the cup that you will particularly enjoy. Just keep on doing what you have already started, keeping good records of your observations and you will find which beans really excite your palate at dark roast levels. For me, I dont really enjoy any bean variety roasted very dark and probably only take a handful of varietals to around the CS10-11 stage; everything else would be closer to CS8-9.

    Looks like youre well on the way to getting all this sorted out for yourself mate and thats great 8-).... Exactly what we try to encourage all CS home-roasters to do. Onward and upward NTE... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Mal.

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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1224193797/0#6 date=1224660398
    For me, I dont really enjoy any bean variety roasted very dark and probably only take a handful of varietals to around the CS10-11 stage; everything else would be closer to CS8-9.
    Mal.
    Mal, so which varieties do you take into CS10-11?

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)


    I have to say up front that threads like this are curious at the least. CS11 for me is the colour of garden compost as that is where I would put CS11 roasted beans.

    ...having said that I do have one CS-Brown customer that likes his beans that dark and we roast his large order on its own. We also flush the grinder after grinding them to rid it of the smell and wash down the roaster and cooling tray. YUCK.

    Brazil Daterra Sweet - Again, ok but not particularly a standout flavour-wise. Has a touch of ashy or burnt hint to it.
    That is too funny. Where do you think the ashy burnt hint came from? Not the bean, it was your roasting to a CS11 roast depth.

    If you want a roast dark then you will need to have very different profiles for each bean. High density beans will be easier to roast dark... eg: East African and high altitude South American beans. Brazil beans will be a lower density and will roast faster given the same amount of heat... and there is more chance of burning them till you have ashy flavours.

    You can get dark by doing a long slow roast (baked).
    You can get dark by slowing the roast to 1st by a few minutes.
    You can get dark by using too much heat.
    You can get dark by running any profile too far into 2nd.
    You can get dark by dropping the beans into too hot a roaster.
    You can get dark at Starbucks.
    ;)

    Roasting by colour is a flawed idea. Use it as a discussion indicator at best which is why the CS card has only a few colours on it.

    The roast session that I do for the Coffee Academy has the same bean roasted 5 different ways, all are same colour (more or less) but the roasts vary from 8 to 20 minutes and flavour profile of each is amazingly different.

    I dare say that any bean could be roasted to CS11, you will have to change how you get to that colour to determine how it tastes though.

    Oh... cooling will be VERY important too as at that depth a few seconds over roasted and you will have nothing like coffee.

    How many coffees can you get from a single brickett?

    :)



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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    I didnt think CS11 colour was that bad... Perhaps I should have mentioned that I dont roast by colour but more the fact that Im going deeper into 2nd crack than I previously did before. My roast profiles across the board are pretty much the same, aim to get to FC at the 10 minute mark with SHB beans and the Yemen an exception (12 min for them). Aim to get to 2nd Crack 5-6 minutes after FC. I pull the roast about 10-15 seconds after I think they hit rolling 2nd Crack. I get divots and they appear shiny but have no drops of oil on them. The oils seem to appear after a few days rest but I wouldnt say they are exceptionally oily. On my membership card, it does appear to resemble CS11 (CS12 being the last one on the card and I think CS12 has oils on it).
    So how would you determine when the roast has gone too far in?

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeman link=1224193797/0#8 date=1224738895
    CS11 for me is the colour of garden compost as that is where I would put CS11 roasted beans.
    Hmmm....

    I roast outside, like a lot of CSers, and perhaps that may have something to do with the differentiation of perceived colour when referring to the CS Member Card but for the roasts that I take deeper than others, the colour at CS11 equates to an Ismaili roasted about 10-20 seconds into Second Crack, then pulled at the onset of Rolling Second Crack and immediately cooled. Total roast time would average about 18-20 minutes on any given Roast Day.

    The roast batch is far from being charcoal and is one of my most favourite beans to drink as an S.O.. Basically, I hate anything remotely tasting like ash and avoid roasting to this depth like the plague. Just goes to show you how subjective referring to roast colour alone can be very misleading.... :-?

    Mal.

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)


    So how would you determine when the roast has gone too far in?
    T A S T E




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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Quote Originally Posted by NewToEspresso link=1224193797/0#5 date=1224632880

    I base these flavour comparisons using the Obscura Dark Horse blend as the measuring stick. The Yirg and Timorese come close to it, but I still cant quite get to the flavours and sensations I got when I tried the Obscura Dark Horse blend. (A bit of a plug but well worthy of it for Obscura) It was thsi blend that got me started in trying to discover the darker roasts.
    Glad to hear you like our Dark Horse!

    Our roaster Steve roasts the Dark Horse insanely dark -- much darker than you would take most coffees -- but due to the beans he is using (specifically the high altitude Lao Robusta) there is virtually no bitterness typically associated with roasts this dark. You will probably notice that there will be less complexity in the Dark Horse than Obscuras other blends, but the clean kick is undeniable!

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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    I have to Agree with Andy here. Not sure why you really want to roast that dark and loose all the complexity, antioxidants and sweetness out of the bean, but then again, that is probably why!

    There are markets for dark roasts i.e. France, America and Japan. Yet also in these countries people are moving to a lighter roast profile and taking more care in blending to achieve required taste results. The more popular cafes in these countries are the SC cafes

    I would be surprised if you are not from one of these countries, as in Aus and Nz we tend to go for a sweeter pallet.

    But then I should really learn not to bet on public forums! Go on prove me wrong!!! hehe




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    Re: Suggestions for beans to roast dark (CS11)

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Have a try of the Dark Horse blend and see what you make of it. Prior to trying it out, I was also sure I wasnt going to like the darker roasts.



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