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Thread: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

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    What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    We use skim milk all the time but notice most Cafes use Reduced fat milk for their milk based coffees. Is this because it creates better quality froth or is it just a happy medium between the skim and full cream drinkers?

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I find if I must use reduced fat that Rev is better then others that I have tried. skim milk is quite difficult to get a creamy texture with, it tends to produce stiff bubbles I also dont like the taste of it in coffee compared to Rev either. Nothing beats full cream for taste or texture.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I use biodynamic unhomogenised full cream milk. It tastes better and froths quite well.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I agree lucinda. I always go for unhomogenised milk when I can for its superior flavour. It seems to complement the coffee better than homogenised.

    Of course from a nutritional perspective raw milk is the best of all but illegal to sell in Australia. Though by the time you steam it I dont know how much of its nutritional profile would be left intact anyway?

    If you care about the availability of raw milk in Australia more information is available at http://www.realmilkaustralia.com

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Gee, dont know what they are on about when they say that untouched pure cow juice is bad for you, as I used to get a 2L billy full every Friday morning from a mate at work (his father was a dairy farmer), and it lasted all weekend, wow what a taste, and never did my any harm.

    I wish I could still get it now Im a full on coffee freak, it would be great to have a real milk coffee. :(

    I use just plain old milk past your eyes and homo guised, and find its not too bad, but still, could have better foam for those fancy patterns you see on this site. :-?

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Goodies link=1169547743/0#0 date=1169547743
    We use skim milk all the time but notice most Cafes use Reduced fat milk for their milk based coffees. Is this because it creates better quality froth or is it just a happy medium between the skim and full cream drinkers?
    Probably. I think that the foam separates faster in most skim and low fat milks than with full cream. Low fat milk also tastes slightly less watery than skim milk.

    I think that the flavour and mouthfeellost when going from full fat to skim is way more significant than the almost negligible reduction in fat. Seriously; if you removed a quarter of a slice of cheese from a sandwich, you would probably reduce your fat intake by more than by changing three coffees a day from full fat to skim.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Couldnt help myself .......

    1 slice cheddar cheese = 14gm fat *0.25 = 3.5gm fat
    Source: http://www.dhhs.tas.gov.au/healthyliving/nutrition/documents/dairy-fats-compare.pdf

    200ml full cream milk (4% fat) = 8gm fat
    200ml lite milk (1% fat) = 2gm fat
    200ml skim milk (0% fat) = 0gm fat
    Source: none - made it up, assumes fat weighs same as milk, no idea how true that is.

    Fat reduction over 3 coffees = 24 grams cf 3.5gms for a quarter of a slice of cheese (+/- variance associated with different milk volumes)

    You cant beat the mouthfeel of beautifully textured full cream though.

    Tim

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Ive metioned this in another thread before but Ive found A2 lite and full cream milk to froth beautifully compared to the normal supermarket stuff. Not convinced I can taste any difference. But it seems more foregiving and less inducive to creating big bubbles if the tip slips out of the milk. Final consistency is very good. I usually use skim milk as it results in fewer tummy rumbles ::) compared to full leaded. I also found the A2 seems to create fewer rumbles. :)

    The taste diference tho when I do step up to full cream is very noticeable, especially in the sweetness of the milk.

    Matt

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by TimO link=1169547743/0#6 date=1171358657
    Couldnt help myself .......

    1 slice cheddar cheese = 14gm fat *0.25 = 3.5gm fat
    Source: http://www.dhhs.tas.gov.au/healthyliving/nutrition/documents/dairy-fats-compare.pdf

    200ml full cream milk (4% fat) = 8gm fat
    200ml lite milk (1% fat) = 2gm fat
    200ml skim milk (0% fat) = 0gm fat
    Source: none - made it up, assumes fat weighs same as milk, no idea how true that is.

    Fat reduction over 3 coffees = 24 grams cf 3.5gms for a quarter of a slice of cheese (+/- variance associated with different milk volumes)

    You cant beat the mouthfeel of beautifully textured full cream though.

    Tim

    But.. arent normal caps and lattes 1/3 espresso, 2/3 milk or 60ml of milk to 30ml of espresso. So it becomes:

    Fat = 60*0.04 = 2.4gm per cup or 7.2gm for 3 cups, even less for skim milk.

    So the numbers arent as bad. Just give up 1/2 of a slice of cheese *;)

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    OK; Ill bite - a normal latte is 210mL, of which 30mL is espresso. If you stretch your milk 20%, thats about 145ml of milk. At 3.4% fat (http://www.pura.com.au/downloads/Regular.pdf), thats about 4.9g of fat. If you had 1% instead, that would be about 3.4g less fat, which is about a quarter of a slice of cheddar cheese.

    So I was wrong ... but it would be fair enough to say that if you removed all but a quarter of a slice of cheese from your sandwich you could switch three coffees per day to full cream ;D

    Hmm ... lets have a balanced diet, then - half a slice of cheese on your sandwich, two full cream lattes and skip the milk on the third for an espresso!

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    This reminds me of a story that came back from some rich kids at my primary school who spent their holidays on a p&o cruise in the 80s. The ship apparently had a pizza bar where you could get whatever pizza you wanted, whenever you wanted. The story went that Lachlan (who was always a few sixpacks short) daily ordered a ham and pineapple pizza ... without the pineapple.

    Im looking forward to buying my sandwich for lunch tomorrow and ordering a ham and cheese sandwich with a quarter of a slice of cheese :-/

    Im sorry I started this. Just enjoy your coffee.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Any milk will create good microfoam......But not any "barista" can do it too.

    --Robusto

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I think we need an extra-dollop & a chilled fresh from the udder (which while illegal to sell as a food product, you can buy from some markets as "bath milk") option ;)

    As I understand it, 4% fat (aka full cream) is theoretically the hardest to froth due to certain chemical properties. If you reduce the fat content, or even increase it it apparently becomes easier as the protein chains will form more readily.

    Personally I have no trouble with full cream at all, and since what youre looking for with micro-foam isnt actually a nice foam, but a nice creamy texture to the milk, then a full cream or even extra dollop gets my vote.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1169547743/0#11 date=1171555312
    Any milk will create good microfoam......But not any "barista" can do it too.

    --Robusto
    I agree. Soy UHT is probably the hardest to tame. But there are milks out there that are just easier to steam and get championship winning milk texture out of. All milk can become perfectly textured milk....its down to the capability of the barista.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by beanjuice link=1169547743/0#3 date=1171159970
    I agree lucinda. I always go for unhomogenised milk when I can for its superior flavour. It seems to complement the coffee better than homogenised.

    Of course from a nutritional perspective raw milk is the best of all but illegal to sell in Australia. Though by the time you steam it I dont know how much of its nutritional profile would be left intact anyway?

    If you care about the availability of raw milk in Australia more information is available at http://www.realmilkaustralia.com
    Hi Guys

    First time poster..

    I have been following the benefits of raw milk, and was interested whether frothing would affect its qualities. I am about to try some raw milk this weekend and although i still would not have found my answer (re:frothing), this still may excite. I live in Perth Metro .. At this point, if anyone is interested in my ventures (assuming i make it to the farm this weekend to collect it) please feel free to message me.

    I wonder what effect steaming has on claimed nutritional value

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Welcome to CS.
    -----

    As you shouldnt be boiling the milk it should have little to no effect I would think.

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I went to a latte art workshop at Epic in West Perth last night, they use a full cream milk from a single source and the result was impressive. They use a ristretto base for the latte and then pour the steamed milk and create the latte art. It was an enlightening experience watching Jeremy display his skills.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    After going to Epic they introduced me to Bannister Downs full cream milk, Bannister produce it on their property down south and package it on-site. It produces a lovely rich thick flavoursome textured milk, added to a ristretto its almost heaven!!!
    I bought some at Mt Fresh at Carine Shopping Centre. $1.99 litre

  19. #19
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I was taught that to get the foam for a Southern Hemisphere Flat White you need fat in the milk, full cream best. That way the foam is smooth and creamy and doesnt separate.
    The less fat, the more froth rather than foam, and the more separation. So low fat milk is fine for a cap, or a northern hemisphere latte, but not for a southern hemisphere flat white.


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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Has anyone tried the Pura Lite Start?? You know, indignant fat lady behind the counter of corner store, "..................... all the taste of full cream milk, and only 1% fat".........

    Im a weight conscious skim milk drinker usually, but would compromise for my lattes.................

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    We have used Pura light start but have found it a bit too expensive compared to the similar product offerred by the supermarkets.

    My wife drinks the low fat milk in our house and says it was OK, but nothing special. I think it is 1% fat.

    Currently we buy the standard full cream (4%) and low fat (2%) milks from either Coles or Safeway.

    BTW - the ad you mention is for Pauls Smarter White Milk, not Pura Light Start.
    "This tastes like full cream milk - and only 2% fat"
    And he just happens to have exact change in his hand to pay for it!

    See how effective that particular ad was?

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy link=1169547743/15#20 date=1201584220
    We have used Pura light start but have found it a bit too expensive compared to the similar product offerred by the supermarkets.

    My wife drinks the low fat milk in our house and says it was OK, but nothing special. I think it is 1% fat.

    Currently we buy the standard full cream (4%) and low fat (2%) milks from either Coles or Safeway.

    BTW - the ad you mention is for Pauls Smarter White Milk, not Pura Light Start.
    "This tastes like full cream milk - and only 2% fat"
    And he just happens to have exact change in his hand to pay for it!

    See how effective that particular ad was?
    Not too effective for me it seems................ ::) ;D

  23. #23
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I use the full cream A2 and dont worry about the price. My milky coffees only have about 60 ml of stretched milk in a glass so Im usually throwing milk out cause its sour.
    Greg

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I voted full cream because I usually always use reduced fat milk, only because we go through 6 ltrs of the stuff every 1-2 days, and the kids drink so much of it....however, yesterday when I went to buy another 6 ltrs,. I noticed that the full fat stuff was waaay cheaper and decided save a little money and pick this up instead.

    Every morning I froth milk for three hot chocolates which I make for the kids,. I use this opportunity for microfoam practice. This morning, I was doing the usual things I do to try and get the perfect microfoam, and cup #1 I started thinking...hmmm wow..Im on the ball this morning because I had achieved an amazing smooth microfoam, shiney surface, no big bubbles at all and without any tapping etc. Cup #2 & #3,. the same result..awesome microfoam, the best I have done. I was both pleased and stumped,.. what had I done differently than the last few days,.. nothing that I could think of. The angle of the wand was the same,.. surfin the top of the milk, creating a rolling wave in the jug etc. The it occured to me,.. the milk,..it was full cream. Im convinced this milk made that perfect microfoam.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I have indulged myself the last couple of days with a full cream Bannister Downs milk it makes the most amazing flat whites and lattes with a lovely sweet aftertaste, it is inconceivable not to lick all of the microfoam and crema from the cup until it is sparkling clean!!!!

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    New member and new coffeesnob (first post)

    Wondering what experiences people have had with using raw (ie not pasteurised) milk or pasteurised unhomogenised milk. Im a keen drinker of raw milk based coffee drinks as they don;t upset my stomach. However Im finding that I can;t produce decent froth with this milk. Though it was me but experiments with Woolies generic brand mil proved otherwise - I can create incredible microfoam with it.

    The raw milk bubbles violently and whatever foam is created dissipates very quickly . Experiments with organic pasteurised milk (Mungali Creek) which is unhomogenised proved to be the same.

    Has anyone successfully microfoamed either raw or unhomogenised milk? Is a different technique requiered?

    Im keen to get to the bottom of this as one of the motivations for buying the machine was the ability to use the raw milk - and Im not too keen on flat whites!

    thanks

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Out of curiosity, those using raw and/or unhomogenised milk, do you shake the cream into the milk or do you skim off the cream and use the remaining milk when frothing? *(Or does it come with the cream already removed).

    I recall in a agric / food science class at Uni being told that normal fat milk is harder to froth than skim. *As someone said earlier in this thread, its to do with the protein structure I think. But that was back in the 70s when there werent too many options around for milk. *These days with UHT, fresh, reconstituted (eg REV), full cream, light, skim, plus or minus vitamins, other milk solids etc - then add the effect of the feed quality, breed of cow, drought, freshness/age etc - well, Id say just experiment. *Everyone obviously has different experiences. *

    Ive found some milk wont froth at all while another brand will foam superbly. *Too many variables.

    I dont go for full cream milk any more, although I used to drink it by the gallon. *We also used to get billy milk delivered daily back in the good old days :D

    Now I prefer UHT skim milk (sometimes light) for coffee and cereal. (Actually, I prefer the fresh variety to the UHT - but UHT is more practical given my current lifestyle.)

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogongtiger link=1169547743/20#26 date=1213866228
    Now I prefer UHT skim milk (sometimes light) for ...
    bogongtiger> curious to know... does the UHT stuff texture well?

    I usually change about quite often, but have been stuck on A2 lite lately. Seems to texture quite well, though quite often I have my off days. Thats just me, not the milk.

  29. #29
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Does UHT milk scald?


    The UHT process heats up the milk to 135 degrees CENTIGRADE (!) for two seconds.


    "-.- scalded before frothing...

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by 30in30 link=1169547743/20#27 date=1213871728
    bogongtiger> curious to know... does the UHT stuff texture well?
    Im no expert, still learning. But I dont have a problem with texturing UHT milk. Seems to be fine by my standards, and fairly consistent.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I dont know if it was just me, but I went through rough patch a few weeks where I just couldnt get decent froth at all.
    Up until that point Id been getting pretty consistent froth and was starting to get passable rosettas and hearts in both hot chocolate and latte.
    The milk just didnt seem to move the way that I wanted it to.

    This was with several batches of generic Coles-branded milk - that Ive always used in the past and it seemed OK.

    We then tried the Pura standard milk and the froth came back. (both are full-cream)

    I wonder if it was just brain-fog that caused my technique to collapse or whether the stories floating around in the news a few weeks ago about milk additives are true.

    Frankie

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Ive been doing quite well with Pauls full Cream milk and havent tried anything else for the last month or so.

  33. #33
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewToEspresso link=1169547743/20#31 date=1214358064
    Ive been doing quite well with Pauls full Cream milk and havent tried anything else for the last month or so.

    I also use Pauls full cream and Pura full cream with good results

    KK

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by beanjuice link=1169547743/0#3 date=1171159970
    [...]Of course from a nutritional perspective raw milk is the best of all but illegal to sell in Australia. [...]
    Technically, raw (unpasteurised) milk I think is illegal to sell for consumption, because of the risk of bacteria breeding.

    You can however buy raw milk from the health food shop - may be called "Cleopatras Bath Milk". It is labelled as "not for human consumption", but it is perfectly good to drink (make sure it has a long use-by date). Tastes wickedly good.

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by divine link=1169547743/20#25 date=1213585193
    New member and new coffeesnob (first post)

    Wondering what experiences people have had with using raw (ie not pasteurised) milk or pasteurised unhomogenised milk. *Im a keen drinker of raw milk based coffee drinks as they don;t upset my stomach. *However Im finding that I can;t produce decent froth with this milk. *Though it was me but experiments with Woolies generic brand mil proved otherwise - I can create incredible microfoam with it.

    The raw milk bubbles violently and whatever foam is created dissipates very quickly . *Experiments with organic pasteurised milk (Mungali Creek) which is unhomogenised proved to be the same.

    Has anyone successfully microfoamed either raw or unhomogenised milk? *Is a different technique requiered?

    Im keen to get to the bottom of this as one of the motivations for buying the machine was the ability to use the raw milk - and Im not too keen on flat whites!

    thanks
    Havent tried foaming raw yet. Un homogenised works fine. I havent found a milk that wont make great microfoam with the Bialetti tuttocrema stovetop milk frother/creamer. Really rather convenient for the home-coffee snob and not expensive, as frothing and espresso can be done at the same time for up to 3 cups.

    Variables are simpler with a stovetop:
    a. heat milk - lightly skinning milk measures about 80deg, which seems a good temperature; at 65deg to start, the milk doesnt seem hot enough (Harold McGees "On food and cooking" mentions 65deg + I think)
    b. add bubbles - a little vigorous elbow grease on the double sieve Bialetti plunger up and down reliably makes fabulous microfoam better than 90% of bought coffees (other brands only have a single sieve which doesnt seem to work as well -- we also have a Bodum glass frother)
    (c. for the technically minded a thermometer might help, but the visual skin method is pretty reliable)

  36. #36
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogongtiger link=1169547743/20#26 date=1213866228
    Out of curiosity, those using raw and/or unhomogenised milk, do you shake the cream into the milk or do you skim off the cream and use the remaining milk when frothing? *(Or does it come with the cream already removed).
    I frequently use unhomogenised Barambah Organics full cream - I ignore the cream, that is, I just do what Id do anyway - pour milk into jug, and steam away. My theory is the the whirlpool motion will cause the cream lumps to be incorporated into the milk. It must work, as Ive never had a lump remain after texturing.

    Unhomogenised milk textures really well. It looks different during the process - it bubbles up oddly at first - but then settles down and produces comparable results to homogenised milk. mmm.

  37. #37
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by gz20tt link=1169547743/20#30 date=1214355015
    I dont know if it was just me, but I went through rough patch a few weeks where I just couldnt get decent froth at all.
    Up until that point Id been getting pretty consistent froth and was starting to get passable rosettas and hearts in both hot chocolate and latte.
    The milk just didnt seem to move the way that I wanted it to.

    This was with several batches of generic Coles-branded milk - that Ive always used in the past and it seemed OK.

    We then tried the Pura standard milk and the froth came back. (both are full-cream)

    I wonder if it was just brain-fog that caused my technique to collapse or whether the stories floating around in the news a few weeks ago about milk additives are true.

    Frankie
    Happens twice a year - something to do with what they feed the cows. I think! ::) Moving from grass to grain and back????

    Id heard Pura add extra protein to their milk, so maybe thats why it remains fine when everything else goes nuts for those few weeks ????

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I normally get pura full cream, but they didnt have it when I wwas at the shop, so I had 6 litres of pauls full cream. I found pauls had a really unusual smell, and it wasnt good in coffee. It tasted too creamy, but not a nice creamy, sort of a milk going off creamy even though it was very fresh. With 6 litres i kept going, and found the bad taste subsided if I steamed hotter. I found both foam nicely. And then I got some pura and poured the rest of the pauls down the drain.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by damian1 link=1169547743/20#37 date=1214886877
    I normally get pura full cream, but they didnt have it when I wwas at the shop, so I had 6 litres of pauls full cream. *I found pauls had a really unusual smell, and it wasnt good in coffee. *It tasted too creamy, but not a nice creamy, sort of a milk going off creamy even though it was very fresh. *With 6 litres i kept going, and found the bad taste subsided if I steamed hotter. *I found both foam nicely. *And then I got some pura and poured the rest of the pauls down the drain.
    Hmm, I wonder how long it sat unrefrigerated, before it made it into the storekeepers refrigerator? ;)

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    yeah thats what I thought. a few weeks later my partner bought some milk, and she remembered me complaining about pauls but bought it as there was nothing else. This was from a different store, and it wasnt as bad as before, but still not good. I think I am off pauls for a while!

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    Re: What Milk creates the best froth/foam?

    I must say, after trying a few different types, that the A2 (full cream) milk seems to be the easiest to foam :)



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