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Thread: Soy Latte

  1. #1
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    Soy Latte

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi :D

    This is my first post so I am hoping I am in the right area. I love my soy lattes and tried to see if anyone had a preference for a Soy brand and any tips.

    I am currently using Soy Milky regular and finding it bubbles quite a bit but if I bang my milk jug on my counter first to get rid of most of them and then stop these bubbles going into the cup with a knife I can get quite a nice rich silky foam from underneath. Is this the best I can expect??

    Any tips would be humbly appreciated.

    I use a Breville 800ES and my little lowly Grind and Spice grinder from Breville also. ( I can feel the winces from here ;D ;D Believe me I can feel the Upgrade-itis coming on)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Hi and welcome to CS handoverthecoffee!

    Our soy preference here at home is Vitasoy Calci-Plus - non-genetically modified and made from whole beans.

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Hi Dennis

    My Mum is into Calci-plus and I think I tried it once but cant remember if the taste was different.

    I cracked up at your script on the bottom of your post, as I too am attrated to shiny expensive objects. Unfortunately its "champagne taste on a water budget." I had a laugh


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    Re: Soy Latte

    hehe, in regard to the script - I wish it wasnt true, but it is.

    As for your froth and bubbles, have read of some of the threads in this section for some tips on how you might improve the texturising your soy. If you end up with big bubbles on the top, maybe you could try immersing the steam wand deeper and try getting a rolling effect.

    There are plenty of baristas here that can give you better tips than me.

    BTW - when I referred to Vitasoy I meant the UHT variety - am not happy to drink any of the fresh stuff!


  5. #5
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    I dont want to put a damper on your coffee drinking--but---
    did you know that soy causes males to die earlier and their brains to shrink? Womens metabolisms cope with the phyto-estrogens while mens dont.
    This research was done on, IIRC, about 3000 people and 500 autopsies comparing Hawaii and California--and the soy producers do not want you to know. (I wonder why?)
    Greg

  6. #6
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Never mind the fact that soy cuases cancer, just look at whats on the ingredients list on the back of the box of most store bought soy milks; oil, sugar, flavours, preservatives. You may as well drink chocolate milk, at least that doesnt have canola oil added!!
    But if you must, Bonsoy is fantastic. Organic, GM free and literally just soy. Or you could make your own. Simply bring soy beans and water to boil, simmer till tender, then blend using an emersion (stick) blender or just a regular one and strain through a mouslin cloth to remove any chunks.
    It really makes you wonder why brands like vitasoy, soygood and soy life etc. add so much extra crap to their products.

    If you cant find bonsoy look for something with (at the very least) no added oil. Theres no way to emulsify it properly while texturing your milk and your arteries will thank you for it ;)

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    Re: Soy Latte

    If thats the same as my previous machine, then it has a froth aider. I found that this gave dry, airy foam on top of milk.

    I would advise trying it without the aider sleeve attached. There are some good guides around that talk about steaming, I think home-barista has a good one.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    I disagree with the bit about people developing cancer, dying early, etc. from drinking soy milk. Every now and then the same beat up is reported as fact, be it soy milk, microwaving with glad wrap, using PET bottles, taking artificial sweeteners...the list goes on.

    Dont believe everything you read in the paper.

    To quote Lucinda from:

    Re: Steaming Soy
    « Reply #9 - on: 15. Jan 2007 at 23:23 » Quote
    To set the record straight re the cancer issue. This applies to taking large amounts of soy supplements as Soy contains phyto oestrogens which is a form of Hormone. As the supplements are a concentrated form of Soy derived phyto oestrogen, women who have hormonal related breast cancer (there are different types) are at risk of accelerating tumour growth if they take these higher levels of soy supplements.

    Things like soy milk or tofu are still safe. It is best to avoid the supplements.
    END QUOTE

    Maybe thats why the Japanese, who seem to eat copious amounts of soy (I watch Iron Chef) arent dropping like flies! ;)

    I do agree with the remarks about the additives, though I think the answer as to why companies flavour soy is simple...to make it taste better.

    My second crack worth.

  9. #9
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    My wife has soy and is VERY picky about it. She was put onto Bonsoy a while back and now wont touch anything else with coffee.

    Youll find it in the health food sections of the major supermarkets. Not cheap - abt $4.25 for 1 litre! But I suppose you get what you pay for.

    Try something with the other brands (those with all the additives). When texturing, keep going past boiling point and watch how it separates into its components - water, oil and a sort of tofu :P.

  10. #10
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by GregJW link=1205220298/0#8 date=1205229898
    Try something with the other brands (those with all the additives). When texturing, keep going past boiling point and watch how it separates into its components - water, oil and a sort of tofu *:P.
    :o :o Thats disgusting!

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Wow! Your posts have shocked me a bit and Ill tell you why. My dietician put me on to the Soy for HEALTH reasons. I really only drink 1 soy latte in the morning and thats it, as I cant drink any caffeine after lunch or Im up all night. Thats how I got into great coffee as I thought if I am only having 1 it better be a great 1!

    Anyway, I had to have a ultrasound on my breast in January this year :(..........non nasty lumps showed up :) but ever since Ive been on the Soy I have felt extreme changes in the way my chest feels.

    Your posts have given me food for thought and I am determined to do my own research!

    Sorry if I got a bit personal, but when youve been through what Ive been through, you just dont care about the embarrassing stuff anymore.

  12. #12
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Sorry Dennis,
    Your disagreement doesnt change the facts, neither do the lies of the soy producers.
    Hundreds of autopsy results and thousands of subjects makes for very good research.
    The Japanese mainly eat fermented soy--tempe, etc.--not tofu, and they dont drink soy milk. Fermenting disables the phyto-estrogens.
    I dont want to get too political here (or too strident!) so let me just say "read the research and decide for yourself". Google is your friend.
    Greg

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by GregWormald link=1205220298/0#11 date=1205320886
    Sorry Dennis,
    Your disagreement doesnt change the facts, neither do the lies of the soy producers.
    Hundreds of autopsy results and thousands of subjects makes for very good research.
    The Japanese mainly eat fermented soy--tempe, etc.--not tofu, and they dont drink soy milk. Fermenting disables the phyto-estrogens.
    I dont want to get too political here (or too strident!) so let me just say "read the research and decide for yourself". Google is your friend.
    Greg
    With respect Greg, any credibility backing your claims has an immediate debilitating factor ...

    You fail to provide concrete evidence, yet you implore others to read the research!

    If the evidence exists to damn soy as carcinogenic, then well point me there mate ... give me a google link ;)




  14. #14
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    With respect, I made no comment about cancer, my comments were about early death and brain shrinkage.
    30 seconds on Google provided the following page- http://reliableanswers.com/med/soy.asp
    Greg

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    I hope I dont flare up things too much here, but do love this type of debate!

    Greg, that website doesnt contain any scientific research. It does have a link to a bunch of obscure abstracts, the first of which injected rats with a high-dose derivative from soy. Those poor rats never drank soy milk. If they did, they might have had a chance!

    I cant see where these articles are peer-reviewed either. Just because theyre published, doesnt make them right.

    The author of the precis on the website referred to above, Debi Pearl, isnt a scientist.

    Debi is an absolute fanatical nutter. She has written at least one book telling us that women were created to serve and be subservient to men.

    Like newspapers, dont believe everything you read on Google either!

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Getting back on subject,

    My wife really enjoys Vitasoy So Milky Lite, and I can get it to microfoam very nicely - In fact, I find it relatively easy to microfoam.

    Second option, purely because of price, is Bonsoy. That is the best Soy end of story!

    If youre getting big bubbles, Id be addressing your Steaming technique. Thats another thread!

    Cheers,
    Marc

    PS, this pic here is mine - Vitasoy So Milky Lite and Decaf
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1176991835/115#115

  17. #17
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Dig deeper into the links on the page if you are serious about finding the truth about soy. The peer reviewed studies are there.
    And dont get caught in logical fallacies--because the author wrote something weird says nothing about that article (which I havent read in whole!).
    This isnt something I want to fight about. I read lots of research, lots of rebuttals and made up my own mind.
    Im quite happy to have others do the same. Id just like them to realise that there is lots of disagreement on soy milk and health. (And to me it ruins coffee!)
    Greg

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by GregWormald link=1205220298/15#16 date=1205398586
    And to me it ruins coffee!
    Greg
    This I think can be easily agreed to ;)

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcS link=1205220298/15#17 date=1205448414
    Quote Originally Posted by GregWormald link=1205220298/15#16 date=1205398586
    And to me it ruins coffee!
    Greg
    This I think can be easily agreed to ;)
    Totally! :)

  20. #20
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    Re: Soy Latte

    bean milk... BEEEEAAAAN MILK!!

    ....Nuff said :-?

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    Re: Soy Latte

    At least Greg has given me a cause for my brain shrinkage,I have been drinking So Good for about 10 years now and maybe it has also contributed to my skin cancers & failing eyesight... or maybe not. I am intrigued by the notion of an early death as opposed to death arriving at the appropriate moment. In this grossly polluted world,particularly the cities used in these studies, it seems remarkable to me that someone is able to have lived in these environments and been exposed to such a varied range of internal and external factors and yet an autopsy is able to conclude that it was the use of soy milk that shrunk their brains and prematurely ende their lives....but then Im just a fireman.

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by 99996sps link=1205220298/15#20 date=1205486631
    ...but then Im just a fireman.
    a worthy & grand job mate ...

    but being your first post in this forum, wouldve like to have seen some kinda coffee related comments ;)

    Tony

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Neithertheless, still a worthy post :-)

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by GrindOnDemand link=1205220298/15#21 date=1205505170
    Quote Originally Posted by 99996sps link=1205220298/15#20 date=1205486631
    ...but then Im just a fireman.
    a worthy & grand job mate ...

    but being your first post in this forum, wouldve like to have seen some kinda coffee related comments ;)

    Tony
    Where are your manners Tony?

    Regardless of what initiated this first post, you forgot to say "welcome to CoffeeSnobs!" *

    8-)

    PS: Forget Soy *or psudo soy... get used to the low fat low additive version: black

    PPS: Welcome to CoffeeSnobs!
    ;D

  25. #25
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Doesnt soya "milk" have a ridiculously low scalding temperature?

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    Re: Soy Latte

    While at a caffe recently, when I was waiting to be served a lady asked for a soy chai latte!I was wondering if any of the cafe owners at c/s have been asked to make this revolting drink.
    Just doesnt make sense to me.
    No coffee, no milk

  27. #27
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1205220298/15#25 date=1205615891
    While at a caffe recently, when I was waiting to be served a lady asked for a soy chai latte!I was wondering if any of the cafe owners at c/s have been asked to make this revolting drink.
    Just doesnt make sense to me.
    No coffee, no milk
    One mans doppio ristretto is another mans soy chai latte.

    Definitely not mine :P (although I dont mind soy on cereal - but nowhere near my coffee, thank you).

    Each to their own, eh?

    And soy does have a lower boiling point, Nunu. Not sure what it is but.

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    Re: Soy Latte





    Regardless of what initiated this first post, you forgot to say "welcome to CoffeeSnobs!" *

    8-)

    PS: Forget Soy *or psudo soy... get used to the low fat low additive version: black

    PPS: Welcome to CoffeeSnobs!

    ;D[/QUOTE]
    Cheers for that, and the more I learn here(CS)(and plenty needs to be learned) the move to black seems inevitable.
    Getting a new machine and grinder this week, this will be my third machine over ten years however this forum has opened my eyes to much I did not know or understand about coffee beans ,machines, grinding and extraction so it will be more like a whole new start.

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeman link=1205220298/15#23 date=1205583800
    Where are your manners Tony?

    Regardless of what initiated this first post, you forgot to say "welcome to CoffeeSnobs!" *

    8-)
    doh! :-[

    welcome to CoffeeSnobs firey ... :)

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1205220298/15#25 date=1205615891
    While at a caffe recently, when I was waiting to be served a lady asked for a soy chai latte!I was wondering if any of the cafe owners at c/s *have been asked to make this revolting drink.
    Just doesnt make sense to me.
    No coffee, no milk
    Nothing wrong with that, we serve a chai made from milled real ingredients. No Dairy, Gluten, preservatives. It is very nice and late a cold night its a great drink.

    Same as coffee applies to everything - Fresh is best!!!

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    Re: Soy Latte

    unless youre Byron Bay based, a soy chai latte is an unusual request in a mainstream cafe ...

    Brand wise, if youre not willing to make your own (its actually a very easy 5 spice blend), try Rainbow (Nimbin based ... err, surprise, surprise!) ::)

    with soy? Now thats an added dimension that totally takes the beverage experience away from anything resembling coffee.

    On topic ... regardless of the contention surrounding soy milks supposed health benefits counter-balanced with Gregs alert of soys negativities, the combo of soy & espresso for me just doesnt work - nuttiness overwhelms the coffee experience.

    Enjoy soy for what its worth, on its own ... just not with coffee! 8-)

    Yeah, Im a bloody coffee snob ...
    Tony

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Ok then, Ill see your 1st post & raise you mine ;-> ....greetings to all & thanks for the great info.
    First, Ill concur with GregJW & MarcS. Bonsoy is definitely the best tasting with no oil etc. Price can be made tolerable by buying 6 packs (Prahran Health Foods sell them = approx $3.25/ltr)
    Second, I think I have beaten the big bubbles, the low scalding temp, the excessive nuttyness & lousy texture (at least for my taste anyway) Try adding 15 - 30% of the new A2 full cream milk to the Bonsoy & steam/texture as normal. For less fattyness, try the A2 low fat. Works well.
    Cheers
    Quote Originally Posted by handoverthecoffee link=1205220298/0#0 date=1205220298
    Hi *:D

    This is my first post so I am hoping I am in the right area. I love my soy lattes and tried to see if anyone had a preference for a Soy brand and any tips.

    I am currently using Soy Milky regular and finding it bubbles quite a bit but if I bang my milk jug on my counter first to get rid of most of them and then stop these bubbles going into the cup with a knife I can get quite a nice rich silky foam from underneath. Is this the best I can expect??

    Any tips would be humbly appreciated.

    I use a Breville 800ES and my little lowly Grind and Spice grinder from Breville also. ( I can feel the winces from here ;D ;D Believe me I can feel the Upgrade-itis coming on)

  33. #33
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1205220298/15#25 date=1205615891
    While at a caffe recently, when I was waiting to be served a lady asked for a soy chai latte!I was wondering if any of the cafe owners at c/s have been asked to make this revolting drink.
    Just doesnt make sense to me.
    No coffee, no milk
    So youre making an assumption that no-one has Lactose intolerances? This is unwise! If I gave my almost 3 year old Son Cows Milk, hell be dead in 15 minutes - Its called Anaphylaxis ! Knowledge and Understanding does the world a whole lot of good!

    Marc

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Hi Marcs no one made any asumptions here I was stating my distaste for soy chai latte and wanted to know if C/Sers were being asked to make it.
    I to understand medical conditions we can be faced with. My 11 yr old son has type 1 diabetes.

  35. #35
    Wine_of_the_Bean
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Ive heard A2 milk doesnt trigger an immune response in those allergic to dairy.

    Dairy allergies are very dangerous, in that most food items will contain traces of dairy.

    If only soya "milk" had a higher boiling point it might be decent for coffee. However, its strength of flavour completely overrides any subtle characteristics of coffee. Best to pair it with something just as strongly flavoured.

  36. #36
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1205220298/15#25 date=1205615891
    While at a caffe recently, when I was waiting to be served a lady asked for a soy chai latte!I was wondering if any of the cafe owners at c/s have been asked to make this revolting drink.
    Just doesnt make sense to me.
    No coffee, no milk

    I make at least one, daily...and a 16 oz bucket of milk at that. I have no problem with Soy Chai....would you like Vanilla Chai or Spiced Chai, Martybean?

    Sometimes, you can have wayyyy to much milk....and wayyyy to much coffee....and a soy chai sounds great!

    My 2 cents.

  37. #37
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Not my cuppa tea pun intended.The chai soy latte I seen made came striaght from the tetra pack carton,no spices added.

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine_of_the_Bean link=1205220298/30#34 date=1205747373
    Ive heard A2 milk doesnt trigger an immune response in those allergic to dairy.
    You heard incorrectly... People (mostly children under 5 years) that have Severe Allergies to Dairy cant have A2 milk. Its the Protein chains that cause the reaction. - A2 or even Goats milk as they carry the same Protein Chain.

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    Re: Soy Latte

    I think Ill wade into this discussion as I converted *to soy a 11months and 2 days ago.

    I have friends who have pointed me to lots of research which claims that soy is dangerous. *I have had naturopaths, doctors and dieticians tell me otherwise. *There seems to be some problem with large quantities of soy in the form westerners injest...but the jury is still out in many peoples mind. *To me there are far more important dietary and environmental (and spiritual) warnings that we should heed above this one. *The "best soy milk" in small amounts is where Ive ended up.

    That said...on having to convert to soy due to dairy allergies I went through a period of mourning for my daily cap. *Then I bought a dozen brands and worked my way through them...sticking to the "whole bean", non-gm, fewest ingredients etc. etc.

    Taste...Sungold and VitaSoy are my favourites. *They are imo the least obtrusive. *The Vitasoy I use is the "fresh" version of Calciplus (i.e. not longlife...not uht). *This steams fairly well when you get the hang of it. *I use a little sugar to mask the soy. *;)

    Having said all that...Im really enjoying my double ristrettos.

    Welcome to the crew. *Just my 2cents.

    Kit

  40. #40
    Wine_of_the_Bean
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Must be a case of initial study showing a2 is fine, then a subsequent study proving the opposite. Would likely go with the latter.

    Has anyone tried rice milk with coffee?

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine_of_the_Bean link=1205220298/30#39 date=1205831233
    ... has anyone tried rice milk with coffee?
    Not yet Nunu ... but a usual soy-indulgent customer of mine, when hearing that I had none in stock one day, brought me some almond milk from her fridge nearby to tantalise my shhh-teemin wand. *Textured like soy (ie stretched quickly with low boiling temp) ...

    but it was PINK! :-?

    Quite bizarre pouring that into a couple of shots, & watching the colliding kaleidoscope of colours mix ... she declared after that she enjoyed it as much as my usual doppio soy latte Id serve. :)

    whatd Doc Illy say? *Sugar & milk are contaminants of coffee (bloody snob ;D)

    he didnt mention grain/legume based liquid alternatives though ...

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine_of_the_Bean link=1205220298/30#39 date=1205831233
    Has anyone tried rice milk with coffee?
    My son can only drink Rice Milk... but there are different versions... you have some that are protein enhanced with chickpeas (which my son is allergic to) and would no doubt taste a lot different to plan rice milk. Ive been curious about the Coffee and Rice Milk combination - I may give it a try one day...

  43. #43
    Senior Member paulau's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Latte

    I drink soy with my coffee as i cant tolerate dairy milk. Now that i do not drink much dairy milk, when i do taste it with coffee, it totally over powers the coffee, due to my taste buds not being used to it. I assume the reverse of this may be the case for people who drink predominantly dairy milk.

    This may account for dairy milk drinkers distaste for soy?

    Paul

  44. #44
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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by jaup link=1205220298/30#42 date=1210904608
    I drink soy with my coffee as i cant tolerate dairy milk. Now that i do not drink much dairy milk, when i do taste it with coffee, it totally over powers the coffee, due to my taste buds not being used to it. I assume the reverse of this may be the case for people who drink predominantly dairy milk.

    This may account for dairy milk drinkers distaste for soy?

    Paul
    Spot on there, Paul.

    My wife turns her nose up at the the taste of my "cow" latte as as much as I do at her "soy" latte.

    Greg

  45. #45
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    Re: Soy Latte

    I did find a nice fresh soy once but they no longer stock it up here.
    It didnt taste too soy-like and also didnt turn coffee that funny colour soy normally does.

  46. #46
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    Re: Soy Latte

    One of the most vial things is So Good in any sort of drink, its just tastes like awful beans! So Good has so much crap added to it also.

    Paul

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    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by jaup link=1205220298/45#45 date=1210933258
    One of the most vial things is So Good in any sort of drink, its just tastes like awful beans! So Good has so much crap added to it also.

    Paul
    Mouldy cardboard springs to mind. I only buy this brand by mistake. Its a safe bet to stick to minimum ingredients, made with whole soy, organic.

    On the health scares: try looking for information at www.fda.gov e.g. http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html -- the US FDA is reasonably unbiased on this score. The cow industry is a whole lot bigger in the US and it seems to me an unlikely conspiracy that the soy producers could get at the FDA.

    As with anything, you can OD. You can even die from drinking too much water. So many of these health scares relate to something which done in moderation is much less likely to kill you than e.g. morbid obesity resulting from only eating junk food -- yet you dont see many health scares about that. Id sooner take my chances with the odd soy milk drink than with eating at a burger joint every day (but not in my coffee: if nature had intended soy beans to be used in something needed with the urgency of coffee, they would have been made easier to milk).

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    437

    Re: Soy Latte

    Hi handoverthecoffee,

    Try Vitasoy Calci-plus purely for taste with coffee. It froths well. In my opinion, soy milks have greater variances than cow milk between varieties because of all the additives/non-additives and proportions of everything, so you may just have to do the shop of one of each kind until you find your preferred version.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    160

    Re: Soy Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by GrindOnDemand link=1205220298/30#30 date=1205635304
    On topic ... regardless of the contention surrounding soy milks supposed health benefits counter-balanced with Gregs alert of soys negativities, the combo of soy & espresso for me just doesnt work - nuttiness overwhelms the coffee experience.

    Enjoy soy for what its worth, on its own ... just not with coffee! 8-)

    Yeah, Im a bloody coffee snob ...
    Yep,...I thought Id logged on to "soysnobs.com" for a minute - because, for the life of me, I dont know what soy "milk" has to do with coffee...

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    160

    Re: Soy Latte

    ...Ive got more to say on this!!

    Alot of us are too scared to have a strong opinion on something for fear of offending someone...

    How does Mr Walker feel when he sees some ignorant buffoon adding coke to his Blue Label Scotch? Does he have a right to feel offended? Ofcourse he does. He has toiled long and hard to develop the knowledge and skill needed to create such a sublime beverage. The consumer is lucky to have the opportunity to be the beneficiary of this skill and should be more gracious than to destroy the results of this work with such an over bearing additive.

    Coffee seems to be the "new black" (pun un-intended). With this comes a group of folk who want to cash in on this "cool", but dont really appreciate quality specialty coffee. In my experience most soy-latte drinkers who frequent quality cafes are in this category. When someone tells them that breast-milk lattes are cool and healthy theyll start ordering them.

    The words "good scotch" and "coke" cannot co-exist in the same sentence and (no prizes for guessing where I was heading) neither can the words "good coffee" and "soy milk".








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