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Thread: What is a milk?

  1. #1
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    What is a milk?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    With so many brands of milk to choose from, I have tried countless cartons of milk trying to find one I like. I emptied about 30 litres of milk in the past 3-4 weeks.

    One thing I found was that Pura was the worst milk to work with. Texture was horrible, medium sized bubbles which are not affected by banging the pitcher, no shine.....

    With other brands, I get superb results. Very very obvious difference....

    What I have came to notice is that most of the other brands have about 8.5-8.7grams of protein in them. hmmm

    more protein for the cows!!!

    ps. all full cream milk

  2. #2
    TC
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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin1 link=1208819923/0#0 date=1208819923
    With so many brands of milk to choose from, I have tried countless cartons of milk trying to find one I like. I emptied about 30 litres of milk in the past 3-4 weeks.

    One thing I found was that Pura was the worst milk to work with. Texture was horrible, medium sized bubbles which are not affected by banging the pitcher, no shine.....

    With other brands, I get superb results. Very very obvious difference....

    What I have came to notice is that most of the other brands have about 8.5-8.7grams of protein in them. hmmm

    more protein for the cows!!!

    ps. all full cream milk
    According to Current Affair last night, lots of a substance called "permeate" ::)

    I have experienced lousy Pura as well recently...I guess its just that time of year. I have been getting great performance with Parmalat Organic- both 1% and full cream.

    Chris

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1208819923/0#1 date=1208820162
    According to Current Affair last night, lots of a substance called "permeate" *::)

    I have experienced lousy Pura as well recently...I guess its just that time of year. I have been getting great performance with Parmalat Organic- both 1% and full cream.

    Chris
    What a co-incidence... I watched the video in this via the computer last night because I thought it was on ACA last week and Id missed it *::).

    Appalling,.. milk should be milk IMO... greed!! thats all it is.

    For those who missed this interesting item... here it is... The Secret Incredient in Milk
    (Item is 5:30min long but expect to watch a 30sec Yellow Pages ad first ::) )

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: What is a milk?

    Google tells me that milk permeate (milk protein and fat) is also used as a dietary supplement for lactating cows, to lower grain consumption and boost milk fat.

    Todays consumers seem to have an expectation for regularity with the products we purchase. We want apples, bananas, etc. available all year round, and we want them to taste the same as the last batch we bought. Under these circumstances, I can understand why producers interfere with nature.

    As for choice of product, whilst generic and non-generic products may come from the same manufacturer, it doesnt necessarily mean they are the same product in different packaging.

    Its interesting, and IMO concerning, to see so many supermarket labels replacing brands we once identified with.

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    Re: What is a milk?

    I had to buy Pura milk when the servo I was at didnt have anything else and the texturing I had then was bad and I thought it was just me.
    I find Pauls quite ok and consistent to work with without being great but the best Ive come across is a no brand generic IGA full cream milk. Farm House was great a couple of months ago, but of late, they have been patchy.

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Hahaha even if this is true (this is ACA after all) it is very typical of ACA to use a word that sounds confusing for something as simple as Purified Water using reverse osmosis http://www.edstrom.com/products.cfm?doc_id=191 http://biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=362006&pageID=30 .

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewToEspresso link=1208819923/0#4 date=1208828426
    I had to buy Pura milk when the servo I was at didnt have anything else and the texturing I had then was bad and I thought it was just me.
    I find Pauls quite ok and consistent to work with without being great but the best Ive come across is a no brand generic IGA full cream milk. Farm House was great a couple of months ago, but of late, they have been patchy.
    Yep.. this is the milk I have moved to for the past few months and it foams great!! As I mentioned in another thread,.. I have bought low fat milk for like...ever.... but since I buy up to 21L per week and with the increases in milk of recent times,. low fat is no longer an affordable option to maintain. The IGA milk price is comparable to the two big supermarket chains,.. but a bit more than Aldi( cheaper if I factor in extra petrol to get all the way to Aldi).

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martial Monkey link=1208819923/0#5 date=1208829560
    Hahaha even if this is true (this is ACA after all) it is very typical of ACA to use a word that sounds confusing for something as simple as Purified Water using reverse osmosis (http://www.edstrom.com/products.cfm?doc_id=191), (http://biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=362006&pageID=30), .
    To get to the page, click the link but just delete the ), from the URL before send.

    From the page: Permeate Also called filtrate, the part of a mixture that passes through a filter.

    ACA makes it seem like they add extra to milk, to water it down and make it go further. If thats not the case,.. Id be interested in hearing if they are just replacing what they have taken out in processing the milk,.. and if they do actually add extra..what the reason really is then if it is not to stretccccccccccccccch the product to make more profit.

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Hey I saw that ACA thing briefly too.

    My thoughts were that the product is added to the milk to standardising the composition of the milk. At different times of the year the composition of milk (straight from cows) changes because of different feed or something (so ive heard). I dont remember where i read this but there was a discussion somewhere about people not being able to froth milk all of a sudden because of this seasonal change. Also there is the variability between milk from different breeds of cattle and farms (though i guess this wouldnt be an issue though if theyve got the same suppliers all the time). I thought that what was happening was the composition of the milk was monitored and stuff added/removed to get it to their standard composition. If this is what the deal is it makes sense to me, but I guess that maybe what they consider the normal composition of their full cream milk is actually watered down.

    I drink the milk inbetween skim and full fat so thats gonna be modified anyway! ;)

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanch link=1208819923/0#8 date=1208839422
    Hey I saw that ACA thing briefly too. *

    My thoughts were that the product is added to the milk to standardising the composition of the milk. *At different times of the year the composition of milk (straight from cows) changes because of different feed or something (so ive heard). *I dont remember where i read this but there was a discussion somewhere about people not being able to froth milk all of a sudden because of this seasonal change. *Also there is the variability between milk from different breeds of cattle and farms (though i guess this wouldnt be an issue though if theyve got the same suppliers all the time). *I thought that what was happening was the composition of the milk was monitored and stuff added/removed to get it to their standard composition. *If this is what the deal is it makes sense to me, but I guess that maybe what they consider the normal composition of their full cream milk is actually watered down. *I drink the milk inbetween skim and full fat so thats gonna be modified anyway! *
    If this is the case,..I agree,.makes sense to me and Id be happy if thats what it turns out to be. Its likely to turn out to be another sad case of "Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story" with ACA,I had a laugh.

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Interesting. I use Farm House at workwhich has something like 5% butter fat added to the milk. I use approximately 30 L of fullcream a day, 10 L of skinny and 4 L of soy. The past month has been attrocious for Farm House.....looks great when steaming, but when youre done, wait 5 seconds and it looks like its a milkshake.

    I changed to Pura 2 weeks ago....a god send...nothing wrong with it...pouring some of my best latte art recently with Pura....not sure whats going on there.

    However, during the victorian state championships I saw all 3 tasmanian competitors butcher the pura....I took some outside and textured it on a san marino and it was BADDD....I ran to the IGA down the road and used Pauls....it was good...dont know what it tasted like though....must have been okay though!

  12. #12
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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1208819923/0#10 date=1208846495
    The past month has been attrocious for Farm House.....looks great when steaming, but when youre done, wait 5 seconds and it looks like its a milkshake.
    Im having that problem with nearly every milk at the moment. Maybe the last two-three weeks have been shocking. Dairy Farmers, Coles, Bilo, Norco ...

    Only thing Ive been happy with lately is Parmalat and Barambah Organic, but theyre too expensive for the amount we consume.

    Im planning on doing a milk cupping this weekend, should be interesting.

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    Re: What is a milk?

    As is always the case with these sorts of stories, its usually a case of too little of the correct information in order to allow people to make informed decisions. There are many types of Permeate, it is a generic term to describe a portion of a filtering process, most usually Osmosis....

    Milk Permeate is described in this short extract from a scientific journal attached as an image.....

    Mal.


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    Re: What is a milk?

    <<snip>> and is a major disposal problem.... <</snip>> they found a way!! ;D

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    Re: What is a milk?

    Interesting to hear some people do get results from Pura.....I just steamed a pitcher of pura and it turned out terrible....yet again.

    Farmdale from Aldi is very very cheap and the texture is perfect....not to mention Pura 2l price = Aldi 3l


  16. #16
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: What is a milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1208819923/0#10 date=1208846495
    <SNIP>

    I changed to Pura 2 weeks ago....a god send...nothing wrong with it...pouring some of my best latte art recently with Pura....not sure whats going on there.
    I use Pura too, but I dont think its improved my art :-[

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1208819923/0#10 date=1208846495
    However, during the victorian state championships I saw all 3 tasmanian competitors butcher the pura....I took some outside and textured it on a san marino and it was BADDD....I ran to the IGA down the road and used Pauls....it was good...dont know what it tasted like though....must have been okay though!
    Wish I was there to see that - a look of panic, followed by the run down to the grocer, then crouched down in some alley way decanting Pauls into a Pura container. ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: What is a milk?

    It would seem that the ACA report on the addition of permeate in milk is a response to the following story:
    SMH
    Creamed off by milk companies
    Maxine Frith
    April 13, 2008
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/creamed-off-by-milk-companies/2008/04/12/1207856909188.html

    Which in turn appears to be a response to an complaint laid with the ACCC , Public submission by Kiama Shellharbour Albion Park Milk Suppliers Collective Bargaining Group
    Date: 11 March 2008
    http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=812895&nodeId=96534e48693aa76a45 3bea47df140d28&fn=086%20-%20Kiama%20Shellharbour%20Albion%20Park%20Milk%20S uppliers%20Group%20(5%20pages).pdf

    This complaint is basically about the addition of "Permeate" in whatever form to the raw product.

    The milk companies claim that "Permeate" allows for consistency in the milk product , and in no way waters down the milk.

    My own experience with all brands of milk have shown that they all vary day to day , batch to batch and brand to brand, even within brands.

    My question/statement is : "If the addition of Permeate creates consistency, then why are all milks so very inconsistent."

    Gazz

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    Re: What is a milk?

    My god what a lot of hooeee over nothing - and a practice that has been in place for decades. (Source my old man who was a cheesemaker - before he changed companies and roles and worked in a factory making instant coffee - sad but true)

    Milk is a natural product - and as has been said in earlier posts and other threads - it varies month to month in its properties. It also varies from farm gate to farm gate. Differing breeds of cattle - differing feedstock all have an effect on the milk. (Milk around this time of year or a month or so ago - when the cows have been feeding on rape gives me the heebies I cant stand the smell of it)

    Now like it or not - theres a wonderful organisation called the "Food standards association" who require foodstuffs to conform to rules - and the fat and milk solids contained in "milk" is governed by some of their requirements.

    Standardising milk is not a "new" and terrible development - its been happening for more years then my old man can probably remember at his age.




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