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Thread: Soy Milk unhealthy?

  1. #1
    DeccaDance
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    Soy Milk unhealthy?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    This comes as no surprise to me.
    Soy Milk is Unhealthy!
    Making coffee with soy to me is similar to adding artificial sweeteners (Aspartame) to your brew! Yuck! Why contaminate a "natural" product with a poison?

    I urge you to read this interesting piece from Dr. Kaayla Daniel, which describes how soybeans are "milked" to make soymilk, and transmogrified into health-harming products nobody needs.
    After pre-soaking beans in an alkaline solution, the resulting paste is cooked in a pressure cooker, eliminating key nutrients and producing low levels of the toxin lysinoalanine.
    After that, the production process becomes a matter of cleaning up the undesirable, beany taste of soymilk, either by pre-soaking beans beforehand with baking soda or "deodorizing" them using a process similar to refining oil. Sweeteners (raw cane crystals, barley malt or brown rice syrup) and flavourings mask any remaining "beaniness."
    Sales of soymilk came to $1 billion in 2005. But soymilk drinkers might be surprised to learn that soymilk was originally considered nothing more than a step in the process of making tofu. Soymilk consumption didnt pick up until the late 1970s, when advertisers began promoting it as an energy drink.
    The soy industry has long concentrated on taste rather than health, however. And since soymilk doesnt exist naturally in nature, it is, and always has been, a processed food.

    Weston A. Price Foundation

    Still on the fence about the value of soy products, even after health claims have been hugely debunked? If theres any lingering doubt in your mind, you should read this piece, written by the author of The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of Americas Favorite Health Food Revealed:
    "Modern soy protein foods in no way resemble the traditional Asian soy foods, and may contain carcinogens like nitrates and lysinoalanine. Non-fermented soy products like tofu, soy milk and meatless foods made from textured vegetable protein also contain phytic acid, one of many anti-nutrients its wise to avoid at all costs. And all of the purported "health benefits" of these products are simply untrue:
    • Soy isoflavones dont prevent various forms of cancer (prostate, breast or uterine).
    • Neither soy protein nor soy isoflavones are useful in limiting menopause-related symptoms.
    • The jury remains out on any soy-related benefits in treating osteoporosis."
    Most of the soy-based products on the market today can hardly be called "natural" foods.
    They are produced in factories at high temperatures and pressures and with the help of a variety of chemicals. The soybeans themselves are grown on huge corporate farms, most of which use toxic pesticides and herbicides.
    And a large percentage of soy foods come from genetically engineered plants.
    The fact that these products can be labeled "natural" only demonstrates the power and duplicity of soy interests in this world.
    GMO food and drinks? *Not this bunny.
    You know it makes sense......

  2. #2
    TC
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 052422222005202F2224410 link=1261577061/46#46 date=1262836510
    which describes how soybeans are "milked"
    Yeah- I hear you need to have really small fingers to achieve that ::) ;D

  3. #3
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 604147474560454A4741240 link=1261577061/46#46 date=1262836510
    <snip>
    [smiley=thumbup.gif]This matches my research as well. Its a shame, I was quite fond of soy milk on cereal--now I dont eat either!

    Greg

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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A7B7D7D7F5A7F707D7B1E0 link=1261577061/46#46 date=1262836510
    This comes as no surprise to me.
    Soy Milk is Unhealthy!
    Making coffee with soy to me is similar to adding artificial sweeteners (Aspartame) to your brew! Yuck! Why contaminate a "natural" product with a poison?

    I urge you to read this interesting piece from Dr. Kaayla Daniel, which describes how soybeans are "milked" to make soymilk, and transmogrified into health-harming products nobody needs.
    After pre-soaking beans in an alkaline solution, the resulting paste is cooked in a pressure cooker, eliminating key nutrients and producing low levels of the toxin lysinoalanine.
    After that, the production process becomes a matter of cleaning up the undesirable, beany taste of soymilk, either by pre-soaking beans beforehand with baking soda or "deodorizing" them using a process similar to refining oil. Sweeteners (raw cane crystals, barley malt or brown rice syrup) and flavourings mask any remaining "beaniness."
    Sales of soymilk came to $1 billion in 2005. But soymilk drinkers might be surprised to learn that soymilk was originally considered nothing more than a step in the process of making tofu. Soymilk consumption didnt pick up until the late 1970s, when advertisers began promoting it as an energy drink.
    The soy industry has long concentrated on taste rather than health, however. And since soymilk doesnt exist naturally in nature, it is, and always has been, a processed food.

    Weston A. Price Foundation

    Still on the fence about the value of soy products, even after health claims have been hugely debunked? If theres any lingering doubt in your mind, you should read this piece, written by the author of The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of Americas Favorite Health Food Revealed:
    "Modern soy protein foods in no way resemble the traditional Asian soy foods, and may contain carcinogens like nitrates and lysinoalanine. Non-fermented soy products like tofu, soy milk and meatless foods made from textured vegetable protein also contain phytic acid, one of many anti-nutrients its wise to avoid at all costs. And all of the purported "health benefits" of these products are simply untrue:
    • Soy isoflavones dont prevent various forms of cancer (prostate, breast or uterine).
    • Neither soy protein nor soy isoflavones are useful in limiting menopause-related symptoms.
    • The jury remains out on any soy-related benefits in treating osteoporosis."
    Most of the soy-based products on the market today can hardly be called "natural" foods.
    They are produced in factories at high temperatures and pressures and with the help of a variety of chemicals. The soybeans themselves are grown on huge corporate farms, most of which use toxic pesticides and herbicides.
    And a large percentage of soy foods come from genetically engineered plants.
    The fact that these products can be labeled "natural" only demonstrates the power and duplicity of soy interests in this world.
    GMO food and drinks? *Not this bunny.
    You know it makes sense......
    Amusing.

    I dont think much of this applies to Bonsoy or Vitasoy. Especially the quote "Modern soy protein foods". Both Bonsoy and Vitasoy (some other brands too) are not a soy protein isolate drink. They use the full soy bean.

    Bonsoy and I think most of Vitasoy soy drink are made from non GMO organic beans.

    I really dont see that a product like Bonsoy is any less natural then sugar. In fact most of the processing isnt far removed from how coffee is made - split bean, dehull, cook at high temp, grind, extract and filter with high pressure hot water then add sugar.

    Dont get me started on how bad cow juice is for humans! ;D

  5. #5
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Dont get me started on how bad cow juice is for humans!
    Only if youre lactose intolerant. Like having anything if youre intolerant to it.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C2B2F20032120252B374E0 link=1261577061/50#50 date=1262907787
    Only if youre lactose intolerant.Like having anything if youre intolerant to it.
    Or peanuts if you are allergic to them, can kill ya. :(
    Personally I enjoy both milk and peanuts, am yet to try soy milk and after all of the adverse publicity I doubt I will bother. :)

  7. #7
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 6764767672647C050 link=1261577061/49#49 date=1262901175
    Dont get me started on how bad cow juice is for humans!
    What about that Dyhydrogen Monoxide that is added to almost everything?


  8. #8
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 7448554E444552474F44200 link=1261577061/52#52 date=1262909879
    What about that Dyhydrogen Monoxide that is added to almost everything?
    /me throws an ice cube at Thundergod


    Java "Lets keep it on topic everyone shall we?" phile

  9. #9
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 1136323D1E3C3D38362A530 link=1261577061/50#50 date=1262907787
    Dont get me started on how bad cow juice is for humans!
    Only if youre lactose intolerant. *Like having anything if youre intolerant to it.
    Well not really,

    Milk has been linked to juvenile diabetes, autism, other mental illnesses and health issues.
    But just like soy and other food products if you look for issues you will find them.

    It seems to me that a lot of this is a matter of Australian culture.

    In the previous month a brand of milk was recalled. I dont really know but I would have it as a guess that more units of this brand of milk are sold than Bonsoy.
    http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/foodrecalls/currentconsumerlevelrecalls/milkmicrobialescheri4595.cfm
    Yet no post on Coffeesnobs or news reports.

    Another argument from me about "Aussie culture" is the view that cow milk is natural or should I say more natural than soy drink.
    Cow milk is for young cows not adult humans. It contains hormones that arent for humans.
    Also most mammals (it probably is all but Im not 100% sure) are weaned. Milk is not for adult mammals.

    So if you stand back and take an objective view at it a human adult consuming milk from a different mammal seems very unnatural.

    Im saying "dont drink it" blah blah. There are many things us humans do that are "natural". Just that my view is that the amount of health illness caused by cow milk swamp this Bonsoy recall and that the "truth" of the mater is tainted by cultural views.

  10. #10
    A_M
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    "It seems to me that a lot of this is a matter of Australian culture"

    Do not agree...

    LIFE is linked to juvenile diabetes, autism, other mental illnesses and health issues.

    It is more of a Western culture and partly due to the fact that in general, the western cultures are not lactose intolerant.

    Then add the fact that it is reasonable cheep, been doing it since day one (actually BC) and include other animals - Goats / Camels/ Sheep etc etc as well... *The issue is they dont supply enough..

    Just like Petrol / fossil fuels.. There is $$$ to be made.

    Then again, the Asian and *Eastern cultures did once support breast feeding.. *Even Adults had WET nurses....

    While there are reasons, many today are put off by the perceived sexual overtones and *use all sorts of chemicals to feed and bring up their young.. *Then when we get older; many feed them even worse food.. *Then we want to blame someone ELSE for it *;D :D

    SOY... I get a reaction and bring up curdled gunk a few hrs after drinking the stuff... *:-[

    My son had feeding problems and from teh breast.. progressed through a few different ones and it was a soy in the end that saw him do better. *My daughter was the opposite and would toss the soy up but loved her cows milk... *He loves his Milk today, but enjoys a SOY mocha??? (Has Mental illness = YES = SOY *::) )

    They love their ICE cream... And so do many others.. Mostly milk based unless you get the curdled pigs fat (soft serve) from Mackers...

    So for me... I want a wet nurse and in the mean time Milk from Cows / Goats / Sheep and or Camels etc are all OK... *In moderation...

    What you want to Drink or eat is your choice...

    And I reserve the right to make my own...

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 494A58585C4A522B0 link=1261577061/54#54 date=1262916106
    It seems to me that a lot of this is a matter of Australian culture.
    Which aspect of Australian culture in particular?
    Quote Originally Posted by 494A58585C4A522B0 link=1261577061/54#54 date=1262916106
    In the previous month a brand of milk was recalled. I dont really know but I would have it as a guess that more units of this brand of milk are sold than Bonsoy.
    http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/foodrecalls/currentconsumerl...
    Seemed to be an honest and open recall because of possible E Coli contamination
    Quote Originally Posted by 494A58585C4A522B0 link=1261577061/54#54 date=1262916106
    Another argument from me about "Aussie culture" is the view that cow milk is natural or should I say more natural than soy drink.
    Cow milk is for young cows not adult humans. It contains hormones that arent for humans.
    Also most mammals (it probably is all but Im not 100% sure) are weaned. Milk is not for adult mammals.

    So if you stand back and take an objective view at it a human adult consuming milk from a different mammal seems very unnatural.
    Your personal view Bassway, a very large percentage of the western world dont see it that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by 494A58585C4A522B0 link=1261577061/54#54 date=1262916106
    Cow milk is for young cows
    So is Soy milk for young Soys :D

  12. #12
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 644B42405768444B44424048404B51250 link=1261577061/55#55 date=1262918291
    "It seems to me that a lot of this is a matter of Australian culture"

    Do not agree...

    LIFE is linked to juvenile diabetes, autism, other mental illnesses and health issues.

    It is more of a Western culture and partly due to the fact that in general, the western cultures are not lactose intolerant.

    Then add the fact that it is reasonable cheep, been doing it since day one (actually BC) and include other animals - Goats / Camels/ Sheep etc etc as well... *The issue is they dont supply enough..

    Just like Petrol / fossil fuels.. There is $$$ to be made.

    Then again, the Asian and *Eastern cultures did once support breast feeding.. *Even Adults had WET nurses....

    While there are reasons, many today are put off by the perceived sexual overtones and *use all sorts of chemicals to feed and bring up their young.. *Then when we get older; many feed them even worse food.. *Then we want to blame someone ELSE for it *;D :D

    SOY... I get a reaction and bring up curdled gunk a few hrs after drinking the stuff... *:-[

    My son had feeding problems and from teh breast.. progressed through a few different ones and it was a soy in the end that saw him do better. *My daughter was the opposite and would toss the soy up but loved her cows milk... *He loves his Milk today, but enjoys a SOY mocha??? (Has Mental illness = YES = SOY *::) )

    They love their ICE cream... And so do many others.. Mostly milk based unless you get the curdled pigs fat (soft serve) from Mackers...

    So for me... I want a wet nurse and in the mean time Milk from Cows / Goats / Sheep and or Camels etc are all OK... *In moderation...

    What you want to Drink or eat is your choice...

    And I reserve the right to make my own...
    Well said AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Milk has been linked to juvenile diabetes, autism, other mental illnesses and health issues.
    Really? Autism? how?

    I dont imagine that you are referring to milk as a causative agent of autism so you must be referring to the belief that casein has an impact on the behaviour of children with autism as a result of gut problems?

    There has been considerable research, including a very recent consensus statement based on a review of all known research that found that there was no difference in the prevalence of GI problems, particularly inflammatory diseases of the GI tract in the population of children with autism and the rest of the population. On this basis the need for a diet that excludes casein is not indicated. I did read on the A2 milk site that they considered their milk to better for children with autism - they didnt offer any good evidence for this so I find it hard to take at face value.

    As far as being linked to the other conditions you mentioned - well I dont know off hand and would have to do further research - got any pointers to good medical literature to support that position? I would point out that many of the foods we ingest are not natural including coffee which is a relatively recent addition to the human diet - less than a millennia whereas we have been using dairy products as a species for several millennia now. Processed sugar is even more recently introduced to our diet and is responsible much more so than milk for diabetes, obesity and other health problems.

    Humans are omnivores and as such can tolerate a wide variety of foods. This is key to our success as a species and on the Mongolian plains mare’s milk is a key source of protein without which life could not be sustained. The horses eat the grass and the humans drink the mare’s milk – a biological process of energy transference that is essential in that environment because humans can’t eat the grass. This is an extreme example I know, but we use such an array of foods, many of which have to undergo some for of processing. Soy milk itself is one of these and on its own does not have the nutritional balance required (hence the addition of the kelp extract currently causing problems for Bonsoy).

    The reality is that almost none of the foods we now eat are the ones that we evolved to eat. Regardless of this we have thrived as a species. Many of the allergies we are currently seeing an increase in prevalence of may well be due to an immune response in the absence of so many of a parasites our immune system evolved to combat rather than a reaction to overuse of some foods and there is some very interesting research ongoing on this issue (search for ‘hookworms and celiac’ in google scholar).

    Sorry for the long rant – ‘autism’ in a post is bound to catch my attention!
    :P

  14. #14
    A_M
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    I like your controlled reply grendel and thanks Jon W

    Quote Originally Posted by 062D3A2D3C242520294C0 link=1261577061/53#53 date=1262910266
    * Javaphile throws an ice cube at Thundergod


    Java "Lets keep it on topic everyone shall we?" phile
    Yea... Way to many generalisations and loose facts...

    FACT = BONSOY RECALL !

    FACT = Many products get recalled

    FACT = Its a product that many use

    FACT = Some love their BONSOY

    FACT = Their are other SOY products

    FACT = Smoking can raise ya risk of early onset of death VIA other factors

    FACT = I make the choice to continue or QUIT

    FACT = Their are other SOY products


    OUTCOME = Move on and move forward; build a bridge and manage the outcome of no BONSOY or remain locked in a no win situation and [s]spiral[/s] slide into despair - its your choice....

    [edit]Note: Word corrected as it was not my intention to imply or deflect my comments at / to the distributor...[/edit]

  15. #15
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 2427353531273F460 link=1261577061/54#54 date=1262916106
    So if you stand back and take an objective view at it a human adult consuming milk from a different mammal seems very unnatural.
    If you stand back and take an objective view at it a human adult consuming roasted coffee beans ground and steeped seems very unnatural.

    Ive been drinking full cream cow milk for as long as I remember.
    My mother used to give me a pint bottle and I had to finish it by the end of the day; every day.

    I didnt suffer from juvenile diabetes or autism and no doctor has ever attributed my madness to my milk consumption.

    If some kids end up with medical conditions from drinking milk its an individual case.
    If milk consumption caused problems for the majority of the population we wouldnt be drinking it.

    I cant eat avocados any more as I now have a reaction to them.
    You havent heard me calling for their banning.

    Perspective people; perspective!

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Milk unhealthy?

    [movedhere] Coffee News [move by] Javaphile.

  17. #17
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: BONSOY RECALL !

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E425F444E4F584D454E2A0 link=1261577061/60#60 date=1262922797
    Quote Originally Posted by 2427353531273F460 link=1261577061/54#54 date=1262916106
    So if you stand back and take an objective view at it a human adult consuming milk from a different mammal seems very unnatural.
    If you stand back and take an objective view at it a human adult consuming roasted coffee beans ground and steeped seems very unnatural.
    You want unnatural?

    whatever made people think you could eat an onion?

    Your eyes burn when you cut open a raw onion, they taste terrible yet someone somewhere thought, "I wonder what it would be liked if I cooked it?" and they are delicious. :)

    drinking milk is far more natural than manufacturing or even cooking foods, you see an animal drink it and wonder if you could do the same

  18. #18
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    Re: Soy Milk unhealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5056414A50574F4D240 link=1262836511/16#16 date=1262923172
    You want unnatural?

    whatever made people think you could eat an onion?

    Your eyes burn when you cut open a raw onion, they taste terrible yet someone somewhere thought, "I wonder what it would be liked if I cooked it?" and they are delicious.
    Have to disagree with this... Love raw onion. Love it. Have even started eating it by itself... Perhaps it runs in my blood, since my grandmother used to brag she used to eat onions as if they were apples (dont kiss her, by the way! ;))

  19. #19
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Milk unhealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C535A584F705C535C5A58505853493D0 link=1262836511/14#14 date=1262919541
    and spiral into despair
    crummy choice of words considering who the distributor of Bonsoy is Anger Management
    ::)

    Quote Originally Posted by 3A392B2B2F3921580 link=1262836511/9#9 date=1262916106
    In the previous month a brand of milk was recalled. I dont really know but I would have it as a guess that more units of this brand of milk are sold than Bonsoy.
    http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/foodrecalls/currentconsumerl...
    Yet no post on Coffeesnobs or news reports.
    You just did! Thanks.

    I certainly would have as a CS community service if I knew before now. As it is its a long way past its useby date and if you are still drinking it you will get crook.

    Besides, the milk recall was only a bug... might be nastier for kiddies and the elderly but most of us would endup with a dose of bali-belly at worst and it appears that it was a single days production. ...long odds.

    The Bonsoy was all dates, and has had a problem for longer than a single batch it appears.

    In closing... if you ever find a product recall that should be posted here let me know and I will if you dont!

  20. #20
    A_M
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    Re: Soy Milk unhealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 755A504D340 link=1262836511/18#18 date=1262938674
    AngerManagement wrote on Today at 13:59:
    and spiral into despair


    crummy choice of words considering who the distributor of Bonsoy is "," Anger Management
    Andy... Had to add a "," after is... Then your comment made some sense to me...

    Cause at first I thought you were implying I was the Distributor or some one with a similar AKA... No space in my AngerManagement..... Or was that an emotional slip ?

    A quick Google and OPPS... I see where you were coming from... as to the word / name that I had used......

    Dont know about crummy, more like an unfortunate and unintentional mistake...

    Note: OP now edited and a note added...

  21. #21
    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: Soy Milk unhealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 755A53514679555A55535159515A40340 link=1262836511/10#10 date=1262918291
    So for me... I want a wet nurse
    I agree! I would give up soy for one of those.



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