I think its easier to learn with a 300ml jug.
Just upgraded my Sunbeam to 6910, and was getting great milk. Since going on the sunbeam course, my shots are smooth and great creme, but milk smoothness has escaped me. Ive been though all the posts and reread, tried different techniques. Changed the milk brand 3 times. Still not getting that smoothness. I get a head on the milk but its not blended throughout the milk. (if that makes sense).
I use 600ml jug, fill to just under the spout, put steam wand in centre turn steam on. Move wand to side about 2 oclock, tip just under surface and get a whirlpool happening.
I think its easier to learn with a 300ml jug.
Okay, Ill give that ago. Ive got a 400ml jug. What about changing the dryness of steam. Is changable on Sunbeam.
RTFM.. * Steam temp and wetness - try reading from about page 1 err OK page 34 on..... If ya in Adobe, if hard copy about page 28 I think...Originally Posted by 07001804020E0F0F0E1312610 link=1285052546/2#2 date=1285057298
Now that is *4 of temp and 4 of wetness so you work out the variables *;D
But as TG says... On thing at a time
So include *changes to milk and then changes to User.. *Variables are now even greater..
I can micro foam milk on a EM6910 at all changes of TEMP and WETNESS and with the 3 main types of milk we use at home.. *Took a while but once you know what ya looking fo... You change the tilt / depth / Angle etc *as you need it...
As has been said by many before.. The user is the biggest problem when it comes to making a good shot or making great micro foam... Yes raw product changes things... But it is how the user manages those changes that makes them a good user...
Practice and then keep at it some more.
Hi Flat White, let me know how you went. I got a 600 ml jug too and i have same froth sitting on top of milk problem with the 6910 which dont seem to occur on the San Marino at work. Oh heck, i might as well go get the 300 ml jug anyway and keep everyone posted. ::)
Thanks all, I changed to a smaller jug slight improvement, but not great. Ive lowered the temp, so Ive got a bit more time to develop the smoothness, and today change the wetness. I get a whirlpool. If I have the steam wand sitting just below surface and half the hole exposed I get milk spitting back at me, so I lower till that doesnt happen.
Puzzling as my milk was always so great on previous Sunbeam.
Ill try not to keep changing the variables, just technique. Ill also watch DVD again. Shame as Ive just taken delivery of Veneziano beans would like to make the most of the delicious beans.
Just looked at my steam tip, it has 1 hole. The DVD shows a 2 hole stream tip. Does this make a difference.
Have not seen a two hole sunbeam steam tip as standard..
Will review the Sunbeam DVD... At what part did you see the two hole tip in action ?
After he has finished the milk, he wipes the wand then purges. A close up of the purge shows 2 streams of steam.
giggled like a schoolgirl...Originally Posted by 37302834323E3F3F3E2322510 link=1285052546/8#8 date=1285225323
That is the old style steam tip that has flats to assist in un-doing the tip with a spanner...
As to teh different spurts of steam etc... Milk scum stuck on / around the tip. Nothing more than that....
Twas a laugh watching that DVD after all the time that has passed...
In essence the majority of what is shown and done is 100% correct.. It is just all teh little bits and tricks that experienced users migh do without commenting or explaining why... That makes it seem so easy..
STOP trying so hard... Let it go and relax a bit... Trust me ;)
Thanks AM.......but its very frustrating. Will try again tomorrow.
It takes time and you do need to be relaxed.. I still stuff it up on a regular basis and can not do Art for teh love of money... My wife calls it Froth Dribble ;D :DOriginally Posted by 33342C30363A3B3B3A2726550 link=1285052546/10#10 date=1285229203
Some days are better than others: But I prefer a good coffee in the cup over some spoofy art work (When I want a Coffee).
Toady the milk was better. But my shots werent as good. For interest on the EM 6910 what is the time lag from pressing manual button to the coffee oozing out.
As in starting to ooze from the spout ?Originally Posted by 3A3D25393F333232332E2F5C0 link=1285052546/12#12 date=1285312461
Depends on how fine you grind and how hard you tamp..
2 - 6 sec maybe... Depends on teh Beans / grind / basket and what you want in the cup..
Yes the spout.
Just wondered what I should be striving for
Dont strive, but 6 - 8 seconds is my ballpark.
On my 6910, i found the best way to incorporate the microfoam through the milk rather than it sitting on top spinning round n round, is to keep the tip at an angle and start the steaming with tip 1 cm below surface, then as soon as possible, bring tip to just touching the surface of milk and get that slight "paper ripping" sipping going.
When the jug feels warm after that "stretching", bring the tip to somewhere between centre and edge of jug but still maintain the tip juuust below the surface THis will create a whirlpool which incorporates the foam into the milk. You want microfoam, not coarse foam. Another tip is to rest the stem of wand against the jug spout to help you keep the tip in the same position.
If you find the screaming sound still there when you get the technique right, and the machine is free from scale,then perhaps the thermoblock,s on way out.
Gary - what size jug?
RTFM steam temp and wetness can all be changed and will affect the way you do it and the SIZE of the jug has a big impact.
PS. Never seen a dead thermoblock YET. Seen lots of systems where POOR maintenance has seen scale and other coffee crap cause problems. Along with the standard user :-)
PPS. 1l jugs not the go with EM6910 regardless of what the sales person says....
Got good results on both 400ml and 600ml jugs with the mentioned technique. Any foam spinning on the surface will get steamed back into the milk for a richer density.Will attempt to post some pics at different stages for those who would like a pictorial guide.Originally Posted by 506C716A606176636B60040 link=1285052546/17#17 date=1286066382
The commercial machine at work is more forgiving of user technique due to stronger and drier steam.
I forgot to mention i found that leaving the machine to warm up for at least 30 minutes seem to work better, as well as steaming the milk first, then as steaming of milk is approaching the end, start the shot of espresso into the cup so you,ve got freshly steamed milk and a good shot of espresso ready to go.
Flat White, is it possible for you to take some pics of your steaming so we can comment? Ill do likewise.
Ok, here,s some pics of my steaming efforts with camera in one hand and jug on the other.
Not a very good effort as there,s large bubbles in amongst the microfoam, but i hope it would help anyone who needs a visual guide on how it can be done.
First pic is the steam that comes out of the 6910. Mine comes out like this...and the amount of milk filled to start of spout. Shown is a 600ml jug.
The next set of pics shows tip of wand under the milk after it has been purged, stretching milk til lukewarm with tip surfing the surface on the centre. Then bring tip to somewhere between centre and edge of jug to create a whirlpool, any large bubbles should by this stage be incorporated back into the milk. I find the best texture to be around 55 degrees celcius. Again, apologies for a less than ideal effort. Multitasking is not my forte when a camera is on the other hand and it,s hi lo milk. (ran out of full cream). Hope this pictorial helps.
Just made my coffee on the 6910. I dont know what happened, Ive been getting good silky microfoam until the machine was cleaned. Cleaned being just backflushing with the disc given.
In your generous opinions, do you think the cleaning had anything to do with me getting REALLY ANNOYING froth now? My problem is like everyone else, froth seems to be swirling above the milk when I froth., which didnt use to happen until machine was cleaned. My steps are as above, like Gary.
So just wondering, should I change the steam wetness to program it to drier steam? Will that help? And if so, how much should the change be? Taking into account Ive never changed anything since getting the machine.
Thanks. SO FRUSTRATING!!
Arr so you used a chemical clean and prior to do that: You removed and cleaned all the coffee fines from the two SS shower screens ?Originally Posted by 5D47483E0 link=1285052546/22#22 date=1286269915
If not, then that could have something to do with steam issues
Originally Posted by 5D47483E0 link=1285052546/22#22 date=1286269915
I always try to blow steam and get an ideas of how much mist / condensation and how powerful it is...
That way if a blockage in the tip or really poor you can tell. If all is OK then its you or teh milk :-)
I have had a 6910 for a couple of years and I cant for the love of money get True Micro Foam, Jump on my mates Rocket Giotto every time get good foam. In a mates coffee shop with a San Marino can also get Micro Foam. I believe that we cant get perfection from a $800 machine. I can get very close on the 6910 but not quiet there.
I reckon some 6910s will give better steam than others.
Ive never had a problem producing microfoam on the one I used.
Have you tried adjusting the settings Fat Mac?
Adjusting the settings on the steam, well no I haven;t I have played with each of the other settings do you recommend that I make it hotter. I will have to try that got some new coffee in the mail (cant get any where I live that is less than about ummm 20 years old give or take a month). One of the coffee shops laughed at me when I asked how fresh their beans are they order once a year about 500kg at a time because it saves on freight. Dont get coffees from their any more.
Thanks for the advice will try.
Hotter and drier (pages 35 & 36 of the Instruction Book).Originally Posted by 05383C3E2539287F1C32183F253E223960510 link=1285052546/26#26 date=1287177269
My theory is that Sunbeam added the adjustment feature to allow for variations in the output due to poor quality control.
H2O is cold and wet at one extreme and when its hot and dry its called steam.
You cant create microfoam with a hose shooting out cold water.
It makes sense to me then to make the H2O as hot and dry as possible.
Ive had a 6910 for a few years now, one of the originals with the screw-in steam nozzle (spanner flats on the end) *IMHO *I was doing quite OK in getting good smooth milk. *The NEW nozzle style is one piece with a rounded end, and is desirable in that it is easy to clean after use. so I bought one and fitted it. *Unfortunately, my milk foam is now exactly as described by Flat White - all up on top and not blended though. *I find that its harder, nay impossible to get that same touch. *Its something about the dynamics of the nozzle tip that doesnt incorporate the air like the old one did, or incorporates too much or not in a controllable manner. *with the old one I could get the exact kkkkkkkkkkk noise that I wanted - with the new one, it creates way more froth initially that is harder to reincorporate, and will periodically take in air in gulps, which slows down or wrecks the process of creating microfoam. *Although the new nozzle is WAY easier to clean, I will be digging out the old faithful, I think.Originally Posted by 75726A76707C7D7D7C6160130 link=1285052546/0#0 date=1285052546
Flat white - unfortunately that doesnt help you as you probably cant buy one of the old type nozzles any more?? *(my guess that is) *but you now know that you arent the only one experiencing that problem, with that nozzle. *I have no idea whether the new nozzle style has been critiqued elsewhere on this site - more than likely has been.
I have one or two of the old style..Originally Posted by 6149495845412C0 link=1285052546/28#28 date=1287184129
So a swap could be managed...
Ive used both the old and new style tips and have no problem microfoaming milk.
I actually prefer teh new style for a number of reasons..Originally Posted by 1B273A212B2A3D28202B4F0 link=1285052546/30#30 date=1287187209
Like many things... Often the user ;D
I still can not do art of any sort... Not my milk or the Coffee; Just ME :D
Turned the temperature up ten degrees as on pages 35 - 36 it is better no denying that. Thanks will keep playing. My concern with the Micro foam debate is we all have different definition and standards of perfection. My definition is that even with a magnifying glass you can not see a single bubble and there is no notable line between the difference of milk and micro foam. You should be able to pour with no milk rolling out quicker than foam it should be like thickened cream kinda, and you shouldnt have to tap or swirl your milk to emulsify it with the micro foam it should be Jinba ittai meaning (Japanese for horse and rider as one) not two different things poured in unison. First Pouring from a height it should punch through the creama and down close it spreads a parts the creama on a espresso.
Well what is your ideal, where do you sit on the fence of Micro Foam, by no means am i an expert I am interested.
Went to a mates house after he told me he replaced his old 6910 with another new one, so i was there to offer tweaks and grinder set up.
Did some nice shots after playing with his Eureka Mignon and i told him "do you ever noticed your shots are sour??" He thought it was brightness he was tasting, so i told him his grind is too course.
Anyway, i noticed the steaming ability was good on his new machine. He mentioned that the older machine did not steam as well. We hooked them up side by side and did a comparo.
After giving both a good 30 min warm up and did tests, there was more noise and vibration from the old one. The new one achieved nice microfoam whereas the older one struggled comparatively, taking a longer time as well.
I said to him mine is over 3 years old, and the steaming power is similar to his old one.
We both agreed the steaming ability slowly diminishes with time and we put up with it until we have the opportunity to compare a new with old.
Was an interesting exercise.
Was a situation when steaming power diminishes gradually with age,but we dont really notice it until something new comes along.
Ok, first sorry to all the CSs that have been reading EM6910 stories for ever, but heres another one. Im kind of venting here a bit, but someone might have a killer suggestion I havent tried.
Context - had EM6910 for about 1 year, slowly built up techniques to nice shots, good microfoam, on average four flat whites a day. Steam on machine got sick, off to SB, repaired under warranty. Machine OK, coffees OK. Steam died again. Off to SB, long story short, new machine. Since then cannot get decent foam. Have gone thru 6 litres of milk thinking I must be out of practice. Slight improvement but still not the nice smooth foam of before that looked like paint. I didnt need to bang on bench, just swirl and pour. The odd stuff up, often with guests. Took a couple of photos to send to someone who gave me some nice cups for Xmas (see below). Two different days, about an average quality.
So, anyone got suggestions. Im leaning towards trying AMs steam mod (its that serious* :o).
Got any old pictures to compare to?
I agree you should be able to get better than those pics above.
Have you modified any of the settings?Originally Posted by 5C6978693F350C0 link=1285052546/34#34 date=1302572840
From my experience, Ive found the best steam is when the both pump rate and temperature have been set to their maximum.
Also, I was having this problem a couple of months back and it was extremely frustrating. I think you should try getting your hands on some Bombora Triple Action Cleaner and do a vigorous descale of the steam side.
(Set the pump rate and temperature to lowest first, and do it in a well ventilated place, or even outside)
That cleared up my problem immediately.
Best of luck,
Sorry TG no old pics - didnt take any when things were going really well. Too busy enjoying the coffee and it seemed nothing special!
Thanks for the suggestions and sympathy J - have tried all setting combinations methodically (hence the six litres). Might try the Triple Action although would have thought it would have little affect on a new machine.
No worries - thats what I thought too in the beginning, but youd be surprised at what kind of gunk came out of it.Originally Posted by 0F3A2B3A6C665F0 link=1285052546/37#37 date=1302588008
Well I am surprised! Ran the triple through it today and produced some pretty respectable foam. Didnt see any gunk, but it definitely made a difference! How this can be on a brand new machine I dont know, but the important thing is I can make decent coffee again!!! Thanks again.
Good to hear that it worked well for you, it has saved me from much hair tearing and frustration before.
I dont really understand why there are so many complaints regarding the steam from the EM6910, sure it may take a little longer than others, but the microfoam is still great.
Even the latte art is coming along greaat :)
i have this new model, same problem, but i have just got a 300ml jug and am getting better results, the sunbeam just doesnt seem to have enough power to spin the milk in a larger jug.
cant wait until june - new breville