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Thread: Babyccino, proper way?

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    Babyccino, proper way?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Is there an industry standard way to make a babyccino? There seem to be so many different opinions out there, that I dislike making them in case its not what the customer is expecting. This is how I make them - please feel free to correct me. I start with a bit of cold milk in the bottom of a sort black cup so the youngun doesnt get burned by a fully hot drink, then add a dash of steamed milk and topped with as much foam as will fit. Lastly adding a generous sprinkle of chocolate. Some apparently just put foam in the cup and no liquid, is this acceptable, do kids just want to eat "fluff" ?

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    thats pretty much what I have seen in my time of ordering them for my little lad. He generally loves only froth from me, followed by a top up of milk once he has finished it. He is always the first to place an order a chino when I offer coffee at home. ::)
    He has come to expect some warm milk in the bottom when we are out. Once he was scalded by a very hot cup of steamed milk in the past, so a warning to take care what is given to a young child. I know the sensible people here would think about that, but obviously not everyone does.
    I do not expect to be charged for one though. I figure if I am ordering multiple coffees for adults, it is a matter of courtesy for the host to stick a bit of froth in a little cup for a toddler. It takes more than a bit of choc powder and a marshmallow to make a $2 charge seem worthwhile.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    My son han one today at Pioneer Yandina. Small takeaway espresso cup, and a marshmallow at the bottom under some "fluff" and chocolate powder! My son loved that. Something a bit different. I think kids just like the chocolate/fluff texture.

    Ive only been charged 50c for babyccinos. Wouldnt really pay anymore to be honest. They keep the kids happy so that I can enjoy my coffee in peace! ;)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    My daughter loves her babycinos! We have had a some with just froth, and others with some milk in the bottom also. One place even put a chocolate bud in the bottom of the cup. We always request no chocolate or marshmallows to minimise sugar and such. It is seldom that my daughter will leave a babycino unfinished :)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Thanks, sounds like Im not right off the track, hadnt thought of a marshmallow though, sounds like a good idea. I charge 50c too, so that sounds ok. :)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    My daughter loves em. Marshmallow in a 80ml glass, covered in warm milk and froth. And Lacehim is right, it means you can enjoy YOUR coffee in peace. ;)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F4A5A4A0D0 link=1290666947/0#0 date=1290666947
    Is there an industry standard way to make a babyccino?There seem to be so many different opinions out there, that I dislike making them in case its not what the customer is expecting.
    I havent heard of an industry standard and my answer to these types if questions is "ask the customer what theyre used to".
    If they arent sure, describe your way and ask them if thats acceptable.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Just another point of view regarding free or 50c bubba.
    When there is a full board of sit down orders waiting to be completed and take aways waiting at the counter, the time to make a bubba is similar to a regular coffee. Likewise the amount of milk is around the same as I will be starting with a fresh jug because I dont have "spare", particularly if skinnys have just been done. I only steam full cream for bubbas. So take away the cost of a shot of coffee from $3.00 to $3.60 minimum each order, this still leaves say $2 to $3.00 left for the service. I charge $1.50. This may be seen to be hard to some customers but I think it is justified. Same reason you should expect to pay a reasonable amount for a Vegemite sandwich when cost of ingredients are only minimal. Time is money and too many people go broke in this industry and wonder why. Others may have different take on this, which is fine, just something to think about.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0801430 link=1290666947/7#7 date=1290768137
    too many people go broke in this industry and wonder why.
    i dont know you, your shop or your target market and i hope your successful but $1.50 just seems a rip off.

    i was thinking if i had a shop in the burbs and could target to some extent the toddler crowd i would be giving them a chaep BChino if they are buying coffee and cakes etc. I would have thought $1.50 would be chasing them away...



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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    An extra shot of coffee is often less than .50 - its everything else that counts for the price of the drink.
    I think time for wages, use and cleaning of machine (not to mention rent) plus ingredients... a couple of bucks is not too much for the peace of mind and quiet it sounds like it gives parents.

    But then... I paid $8 for a siphon coffee today, maybe I dont mind getting ripped off!

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    90ml espresso cup full of froth! 2 marshmallows on the side :D

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    For some reason unknown to me, my bosses way of making a babyccino is melted chocolate in the bottom of a cup (6 ounce), then filled with foam, chocolate dust, and sprinkles. All for the low price ;) of $3.20 making it ten cents cheaper then a cappuccino.

    It feels like highway robbery, and then having a customer complaining to you when you do not agree with the pricing is always hard.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    My kids loved them when they were little, I’ve never been charged for one that I can remember, but we always buy the kids a small cake etc. Total bill for 4 or 5 of us $15 to $30 depending, so is the cafe owner going broke over about 6oz of froth and a little chocolate - no. If I had been charged for the BCs probably would not go back, if the kids get a “free” chino they want to go back, if I owned the business I know how much I would charge!
    I make the kids Chocachinos, a Cap with the shot replaced with a big teaspoon of Milo, and dusted with chocolate, they love Silvia too.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Take some quality cocoa powder and add some milk to make a thick choco milk. Then use the stream wand to "stretch" it and pour that over the kiddy-chino! We use that stretched choco to pour over vanilla ice cream then pour a shot of espresso over that. Mmmmmmmmm!

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Oh YUM....that sounds niiiiice. Think I might get in touch with my inner child! :) Sometimes it doesnt really matter how you make them, they often end up all over the table anyway ;D./\/!

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Im sorry, but making Babycinos at work annoy me,
    especially when someone will order a small coffee, with 4 babycinos.
    The milk used to make the babycinos is comparable to the small drink already,
    and I find it difficult to texture to create enough foam for them.
    BangalowBarista likes this.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    babycino is froth in a sml espresso cup with a fine dust of choc on top.....thats the way I have mainly made them, sometimes with a marshmallow on the side.

    $2 at my work with Marshmallow on the side, hardly any complaints.

    It is only a bit annoying when you are super busy and you have to make a hot skim latte, a luke warm full cream cap, a decaf quarter strength mocha and a soy babycino for the one order........yep it does happen !

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Babycino is for young kids. So the way I make it at the cafe is the way I would like it if Im a kid. Chocolate sauce on the wall of the espresso cup, full of froth normally from skim milk as it makes the most froth, draw a smiley face with the chocolate sauce, top with chocolate powder and 2 marshmallow on the side.

    And free of charge :)

    I agree with the other barista that it can be a bit troublesome when you are back with a lot of orders but seeing the kids so happy and their parents smile makes it all worth it.
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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Im not too keen on giving my 2yo things like chocolate syrup and marshmallows but I do appreciate the generosity with which they are given. There are other things however which should never appear in a babyccino.

    Today I ordered a double ristretto for myself and a babyccino for my 2yo. My coffee was pretty bad but the babycino was the real suprise. It was mostly hot milk, a little bit of froth and some COFFEE!

    I was too stunned to say anything.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    As far as charging for a babycino goes...

    We charge for these. If I have to use product, ie milk, choc powder and marshmallows then some how that cost needs to be recovered.

    Giving free drinks out doesnt make people come back to our cafe.

    Then there is the mess I invariably have to clean up after someones kid has had a babycino. So to me, charging you for your kids drinks is also a cleaning fee. Ive made enough of these over my six years of working behind the machine to know that there is no kid who has one without making a mess.

    Seriously, I really am beginning to be over "we should get something for free because we come to your shop" attitude. My boss still has to recover costs associated with their business and make some profit, otherwise, why be in it? We offer great food, coffee and service and if you get lucky, you might get a smile from the barista... ;) If youre not prepared to pay for that, then you probably should either stay at home or try some where else...
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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Home to roast, did your 2yo like it?

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    We charge $1.50 at our cafe, but our babycino is more like a hot chocolate, we have a lil chocolate in the bottom, some cold milk and mostly froth, topped with chocolate and served with 2 marshmallows. We also serve it in a plastic cup which is probably about 3-4 times the size of your standard espresso cup that lots of people put their babycinos into.

    We sell quite a lot of them and no one seems to argue about the price, especially considering that a lot of cafes in our area charge $1 anyway, for the small version.

    Coffee prices in Western Australia are generally higher than the eastern states from my experience though.


    Edit: When I say more like a hot chocolate, I mean that it has choc in the bottom as well, and is served in a bigger cup :)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5854555A5515545949525E553B0 link=1290666947/18#18 date=1302871946
    Today I ordered a double ristretto for myself and a babyccino for my 2yo. My coffee was pretty bad but the babycino was the real suprise. It was mostly hot milk, a little bit of froth and some COFFEE!

    Reminds me of those signs you see about the place: "All children left unattended will be given a free espresso and a puppy."

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    this one:


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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Of all the times Ive seen that written, Ive never seen the handgun before :D

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Seems to me the hand gun may be over kill. 8-)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F4749414359594549412A0 link=1290666947/20#20 date=1302918843
    Home to roast, did your 2yo like it?
    Luckily my wife tasted it before we gave it to him so he didnt get it. He probably would have liked it though, he has been known to finish off an unattended espresso.

    Back on topic I do appreciate it when the cup of froth is free. But when I say I appreciate it I mean I dont expect it. It surprises me a little that they are free when it does take time and make mess. It surprises me more that people take them for granted.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 495955554E5B655D5B563A0 link=1290666947/19#19 date=1302918722
    As far as charging for a babycino goes...

    We charge for these. If I have to use product, ie milk, choc powder and marshmallows then some how that cost needs to be recovered.

    Giving free drinks out doesnt make people come back to our cafe.

    Then there is the mess I invariably have to clean up after someones kid has had a babycino. So to me, charging you for your kids drinks is also a cleaning fee. Ive made enough of these over my six years of working behind the machine to know that there is no kid who has one without making a mess.

    Seriously, I really am beginning to be over "we should get something for free because we come to your shop" attitude. My boss still has to recover costs associated with their business and make some profit, otherwise, why be in it? We offer great food, coffee and service and if you get lucky, you might get a smile from the barista... ;)* If youre not prepared to pay for that, then you probably should either stay at home or try some where else...
    spot on scoota gal!

    I dont recall Maccas giving the kids a junior cheeseburger when i order a regular one, or HJs giving the kids a junior whopper when i order a regular whopper.

    Why should people expect a small cafe owner to give freebies away when these huge conglomerates give nothing?

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    We make our babycinos with foam only. Lace a piccolo glass with a swirl of chocolate sauce, layer of foam, followed by chocolate powder x 2, served with marshmallow on the side. ^^ Kinda like a mini chocolate parfait ;) all for $1!

    Personally, when I order a babycino for my son, I prefer it to have all froth. Warm seem to be such a subjective adjective. Most of the time I find them too hot for toddlers if cinos arent made almost exclusively with foam.

    2pc

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6569756B6F65606A736060060 link=1290666947/28#28 date=1303631371

    Personally, when I order a babycino for my son, I prefer it to have all froth. Warm seem to be such a subjective adjective. Most of the time I find them too hot for toddlers if cinos arent made almost exclusively with foam.

    2pc
    I generally only texture milk to body temperature (once the milk is no longer cold to touch) but just in case, I also add a dash of cold milk to the bottom just in case.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E5E5252495C625A5C513D0 link=1290666947/19#19 date=1302918722
    Seriously, I really am beginning to be over "we should get something for free because we come to your shop" attitude.
    I know where youre coming from.
    I dont even take loyalty cards when offered from a coffee place.
    If I like the coffee Im going to come back; if I dont like it, the offer of a free one after several more underwhelming brews is not going to entice me.

    Being unemployed for so long now, I understand people that do use the cards as a cost saving measure but expecting free babycinos is another matter entirely.
    fivegallons example of the huge conglomerates not giving away free goods makes the point well IMO.


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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    I have real difficulties when the customer comes back to the counter & "orders" second (free) babychinos.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 31212D2D36231D25232E420 link=1290666947/19#19 date=1302918722
    Seriously, I really am beginning to be over "we should get something for free because we come to your shop" attitude. My boss still has to recover costs associated with their business and make some profit, otherwise, why be in it? We offer great food, coffee and service and if you get lucky, you might get a smile from the barista... ;)* If youre not prepared to pay for that, then you probably should either stay at home or try some where else...
    Hear, hear, Scoots - I would never expect something for free and even if someone did give it to me for free, I would put a $1 or $2 coin in the tip jar by way of thanks.

    Happy to say Ive never ordered one, though, because I personally think they are an affectation and even the terminology of it makes me cringe, the same way someone ordering a Cup of Chino does.

    If I go to a Cafe with my children, they get a hot chocolate, a milkshake or a fruit juice, all of which I pay for happily.

    If I can afford to pay $3.50 for a latte for me, I can afford to pay $3.50 for a hot chocolate or other drink for my children. If I cant afford a drink for everyone, I stay at home and drink my own.


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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A6D7B6971020 link=1290666947/32#32 date=1303776759
    Happy to say Ive never ordered one, though, because I personally think they are an affectation and even the terminology of it makes me cringe
    I agree. Sometimes i order a small cup of warm milk, sometimes I order a babyccino because its easier if the staff are busy to order something standard.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    I make mine with just foam and a sprinkling of chocolate on top. I charge no more than $1.

    I have had people question my pricing, and my response is simple. Whilst I am using electricity to heat my expensive milk, and paying a barista a wage to provide such beverage, of course there will be a fee.. I had a laugh


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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Hops on soapbox

    Home to roast - you dont want your 2yo drinking coffee, but are happy to give them cows milk? Everyones different, but Id prefer my kids to give up milk than coffee, coffee seems (on balance) to be good for you - decaf only near bedtime. I freely admit I am biased though, as I like coffee.
    I suppose at two, they can handle milk better than older kids/adults, but it is still safer to avoid it. Dont make the mistake of thinking milk is a natural product, almost all milk sold has been very heavily processed and is in reality a manufactured product, based on something from genetically manipulated creatures of a different species and with no proven health benefits, but several risks.
    Ask yourself, if cows milk is so good, why dont cows drink it beyond early infancy?

    Off soapbox.
    And back on topic.

    Back home in Auckland, a babyccino was generally called a fluffy and would usually be milk textured like a cappuccino and served in a demitasse cup with a dusting of chocolate. Some places would swirl chocolate syrup inside the cup or mix in with the milk for a mini hot chocolate type drink. Many (most?) places served these at no charge, but that may have changed as it has been a few years since we moved to Melbourne.

    Each business should decide whether to charge or not and review at intervals. Many businesses give things away for free, as a marketing tool. Depending on clientele it may be beneficial to absorb the cost and attract more families with toddlers or it may chase away more valuable customers. Things also change over time, which is why most businesses have regular pricing reviews - I review mine twice a year and use pricing to help weed out some of the less profitable clients.


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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F6769616379796569610A0 link=1290666947/35#35 date=1303899875
    Ask yourself, if cows milk is so good, why dont cows drink it beyond early infancy?
    Seriously, youre obviously a man and never breast fed a 2 year old with teeth...its not because baby cows dont want to keep on drinking cows milk, its just that "Damn, kiddo, heres some grass - leave Mummys boobies alone...milk bar is closed!"

    :D

    I suppose at two, they can handle milk better than older kids/adults, but it is still safer to avoid it.
    Im interested in this comment, particularly the wording of safer - Ive been drinking cows milk for 42 years (and both my children from about 10 months old) and never suffered from anything detrimental to my health to do with that milk, so Im a bit confused why youre lumping me into a generalised group that has absolutely no problems with milk? In fact, I think Ive taken one sick day off work in about the last two years, and it was because I had a head cold so bad I just feel too crappy to go into work.

    Not all of humanity is lilly-livered lactose intolerant nancys, you know?

    I mainly dont give my son real coffee - milkless or not - because at the age of 5 he has enough natural energy as it is, without doubling that with a stimulant. Emily, who is now 9 years old, gets the odd occasionally weak coffee (1/4 shot) because she likes the taste of it and can handle the stimulant a bit better. Mind you, I also dont serve her one after midday. Similarly, neither of my children are allowed to drink Coke and wont be until they are at least 12-14 years old - stimulant + sugar = sad and/or mad mummy!

    Now off to go and make another latte...because thats how I roll as a risk taker dicing with my safety! 8-)

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 775046544C3F0 link=1290666947/36#36 date=1303993091
    Now off to go and make another latte...because thats how I roll as a risk taker dicing with my safety!
    giggled like a schoolgirl - Ill drink to that!

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 13342230285B0 link=1290666947/36#36 date=1303993091
    youre obviously a man and never breast fed a 2 year old with teeth.
    **cack**

    (I also cacked when my kids grew teeth)

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F332E353F3E293C343F5B0 link=1290666947/30#30 date=1303692735
    fivegallons example of the huge conglomerates not giving away free goods makes the point well IMO.
    Agree.

    I have never ordered a babychino and my kids dont get given coffee or coke but they all love milk hot or cold and of course CS cocoa hot chocolates.

    If I ever ordered a babychino (and like Di, it aint about to start) I would expect to be charged for it. No different to corkage on a bottle that I bring to a BYO, someone has to wash the glasses and clean up the mess.


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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 133C362B520 link=1290666947/38#38 date=1304003479
    **cack**

    (I also cacked when my kids grew teeth)
    You would, you ratbag! ;D

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 674056445C2F0 link=1290666947/36#36 date=1303993091
    Not all of humanity is lilly-livered lactose intolerant nancys, you know?
    Count me in there with you Di.
    51 years now on cows milk and counting.
    Anecdotally I think I fare worse when I go without.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Coffee2di4. Thanks, thoroughly enjoyed that post. ;D

    I never said I was lactose intolerant. I seem to suffer from a more general intolerance ;)

    As a female, one thing you dont have to worry about is the increased risk of prostate cancer from drinking milk, but there is evidence (disputed of course) that milk increases risk of osteoporosis.

    As for being a nancy, its a fair cop, Im just not man enough to handle a latte, Ill have to stick to my double espresso in the little girlie-man cup, with a long black chaser. ;)

    I did see elsewhere on the web that someone had found espresso works like ritalin on hyperactive kids, but not as a clinical study, might be worth further investigation.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 676F61696B71716D6169020 link=1290666947/35#35 date=1303899875
    Dont make the mistake of thinking milk is a natural product
    Unless you are a koala bear chewing on gum leaves, everything you eat or drink, whether it is in a babychino or not, has been grossly genetically altered.

    Bananas, cabbages, carrots, tomatoes, wheat, sweet corn, plants and fruit now look nothing like the original wild native fruit and plants they came from.

    They have been bread for hundreds of years and many generations to make the fruit more palatable to us and more productive and easier for the farmers to grow and harvest.

    The same goes for the animals we eat. So even if you are a vegetarian, you are not eating natural food, unless you are a koala that doesn’t drink babychinos.

    Barry

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 597A696962445F6E75787A751B0 link=1290666947/42#42 date=1304043081
    you are a koala that doesn’t drink babychinos
    seriously off topic but the other day I heard that baby koalas are fed poo from Mum to build-up the bacteria needed to digest gum leaves.
    :o

    ergo, maybe we need to ween our kids with cow poo to stop the high numbers of lactose intolerant people?
    ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E7678707268687478701B0 link=1290666947/41#41 date=1304041754
    but there is evidence (disputed of course) that milk increases risk of osteoporosis
    Wow, the last one of those reports I read milk was the preventative, not the cause. I didnt check to see if the author was National foods though.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E7678707268687478701B0 link=1290666947/41#41 date=1304041754
    I did see elsewhere on the web that someone had found espresso works like ritalin on hyperactive kids, but not as a clinical study, might be worth further investigation.
    Yeah, we had a couple of CSrs talking about that here too a few years ago and they were giving their kids espresso in the mornings instead of ritalin. To stop this thread going too far off topic here is a link to one of the posts
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1213659666



    Quote Originally Posted by 7E7678707268687478701B0 link=1290666947/35#35 date=1303899875
    Each business should decide whether to charge or not and review at intervals. Many businesses give things away for free, as a marketing tool. Depending on clientele it may be beneficial to absorb the cost and attract more families with toddlers or it may chase away more valuable customers. Things also change over time, which is why most businesses have regular pricing reviews
    That is very sound advice.

    In another babychino thread it was mentioned that filling the wrong cafe with mums and toddlers might scare off all the full paying customers and those that sit down to buy food. Maybe those places with high babychino prices are dropping a hint!

  45. #45
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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Barryd, yes most of what we eat has altered over time (I think corn was the first genetically engineered crop) but at least fruit and vegetables are natural foods for humans and once harvested undergo relatively little industrial processing. What comes out the cow is not what you buy in the shops.

    Perhaps human milk for babyccinos is the way to go.
    Dont know if anyone has tried it yet, but I know a place in London was selling human milk ice cream for a while, until it had to be withdrawn because of health concerns - apparently it is ok for newborns, but not adults.

  46. #46
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Have you ever tasted breastmilk. It is seriously disgusting... :P I think even those strange people that like soy will find it hard to stomach. My theory is that babies probably normally wean themselves because they taste what real food is like at about 12 months and most come to the realisation that breast milk tastes like crap.

    Or am I giving too much information about me away here? ;D

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Quote Originally Posted by 43647260780B0 link=1290666947/45#45 date=1304058699
    Or am I giving too much information about me away here?
    yup... maybe just a little :P

    Quote Originally Posted by 43647260780B0 link=1290666947/45#45 date=1304058699
    I think even those strange people that like soy
    Sheeze... first you had a go at the "lilly-livered lactose intolerant nancys" and now the soy crew... Im taking bets on whos going to cop it next.
    ;D



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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Nah, thats about it... ;) and I was going to say weirdo soy drinking freaks, but I decided to tone it down a bit in an effort not to offend people too much, so count yourself lucky! ;D

    And, just to clarify - it was out of a baby bottle when I tipped it onto my hand to make sure it wasnt too hot after being nuked! :D

  49. #49
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Im certainly not going to ask how you nuked it.

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    Re: Babyccino, proper way?

    Andy, while feeding cow poo is an interesting idea, I doubt it would work, even though there are some little horrors I would quite enjoy making eat the stuff. As I understand it, a lack of the enzyme lactase is what causes problems digesting lactose and this normally decreases as we grow up, in some people more than others. Like most animals we are evolved to start life on* mothers milk and then move to solid food (and coffee) as adults.

    There is plenty of data to support the statement that milk does not reduce risk of osteporosis, one study* of over 200000 health professionals run for over 30years (started with 121,000 and added more over time).
    The thinking that it increases risk is complicated but in essences is that long term over consumption of calcium reduces our ability to deposit the calcium on the bones (kind of a long slow overdose). How much is too much? Debatable, but WHO guideline is 500mg a day. One flat white and a normal diet willl do it.




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