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Thread: Latte art on a double shot...

  1. #1
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Latte art on a double shot...

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey guys, something that's been tricky for me at times is getting decent detailed latte art on a double shot... not sure if anyone else has had this issue?

    Really happy with my pours on a single shot, but as the double has alot more crema that holds up for much longer time, it's as though it acts as a real foamy barrier that just raises up and staying rigid when you pour, and the pattern doesn't pour out as majestically like over a single...

    It's not bad per se what I can pour, but it's obvious that it doesn't react as well as on a single shot crema.

    Wondering if anyone had any tips from their experience? (Apart from scooping all the crema off haha). Thanks guys

    Ps. Things I've tried:
    -alot of swirling of the cup to push some crema up the sides of the cup and dissipate a bit.
    -using a much wider rim/base cup compared to say a latte glass seems to help a bit, as it spreads the crema more thinly across the whole surface of the shot.

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    You tried stirring in the Crema with a teaspoon?

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    That is very well worth a try! I think awhile ago I may have tried that but can't remember how it went, but a good reminder, will give it a go. Cheers

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Hmmmm, interesting. The only issue I have had is if the beans are super fresh and pour is mostly crema. Otherwise any issues are with poor milk texture and / or technique. I only ever produce doubles, never tried a single.

    Cheers

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Hmmmm, interesting. The only issue I have had is if the beans are super fresh and pour is mostly crema. Otherwise any issues are with poor milk texture and / or technique. I only ever produce doubles, never tried a single.

    Cheers
    Ah right, yeah it may even be bean dependent too, as some beans just produce more crema. My steaming and pour technique hasn't altered that I'm aware of. But I have found some beans with more crema to be trickier, as sometimes the pours are mostly fine with doubles (it seems to be a crema issue, may be wrong however).

    But I'll definitely be more aware of my technique and steaming in general.

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Ah right, yeah it may even be bean dependent too, as some beans just produce more crema. My steaming and pour technique hasn't altered that I'm aware of. But I have found some beans with more crema to be trickier, as sometimes the pours are mostly fine with doubles (it seems to be a crema issue, may be wrong however).

    But I'll definitely be more aware of my technique and steaming in general.
    Wasnt implying your technique wasnt on par. Just saying its likely the beans and especially the freshness. Some beans have super thick crema and if left sitting tends to get a bit gluggy, that would make nice art very tricky.

    Cheers

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    Any chance of a video mate? Picture tells a thousand words
    Our coffee doesn’t seem to have this issue but the cream on our decaf is really sticky. I need to push harder to get something decent in it. So it may just be the blend/bean you are using.

    Have you tried another blend for comparison?

  8. #8
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Wasnt implying your technique wasnt on par. Just saying its likely the beans and especially the freshness. Some beans have super thick crema and if left sitting tends to get a bit gluggy, that would make nice art very tricky.

    Cheers
    Nah all good it very may well be something I'm doing differently, but true regarding different beans, will see how the next batch react when they settle post-roast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Any chance of a video mate? Picture tells a thousand words
    Our coffee doesn’t seem to have this issue but the cream on our decaf is really sticky. I need to push harder to get something decent in it. So it may just be the blend/bean you are using.

    Have you tried another blend for comparison?
    If I have time will shoot a vid, I did just finish this batch today and waiting for my other roasted beans to rest, so will see how the next ones go.

    Ah yeah I know that feeling of having to push a bit to get a design going, with what you mean is that basically being a bit more aggressive in pushing the design out, tilting into it faster? I'm also wondering whether perhaps I need to start the design earlier by not filling as much and tilting the cup more to get closer earlier, so that there isn't excess foamy layer being developed... will experiment.

    But being back in barista work too I've even noticed with our blend if anyone gets a double shot flat white the pattern isn't as detailed as a single shot, or it's just more difficult to get that delicate "flowing" ribbony effect if any of that makes sense haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post

    Ah yeah I know that feeling of having to push a bit to get a design going, with what you mean is that basically being a bit more aggressive in pushing the design out, tilting into it faster? I'm also wondering whether perhaps I need to start the design earlier by not filling as much and tilting the cup more to get closer earlier, so that there isn't excess foamy layer being developed... will experiment.

    But being back in barista work too I've even noticed with our blend if anyone gets a double shot flat white the pattern isn't as detailed as a single shot, or it's just more difficult to get that delicate "flowing" ribbony effect if any of that makes sense haha.
    Yeah pushing/pouring faster into the cup to get the cream moving.

    Not sure about starting earlier, depends on the pattern really for me. If I’m doing a classic style patten (tulip, Rosetta, heart or variation/hybrid of them i’ll start a bit earlier to allow the milk speed to increase getting the ‘around the cup’ type effect. More complex designs like 5 Rosetta’s or animal patterns i’ll actually fill it a bit more to reduce the flow rate, leaving the pattern where I put it rather than pushing it into the edge of the cup

    Hopefully this makes sense, does to me ��

  10. #10
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Yeah pushing/pouring faster into the cup to get the cream moving.

    Not sure about starting earlier, depends on the pattern really for me. If I’m doing a classic style patten (tulip, Rosetta, heart or variation/hybrid of them i’ll start a bit earlier to allow the milk speed to increase getting the ‘around the cup’ type effect. More complex designs like 5 Rosetta’s or animal patterns i’ll actually fill it a bit more to reduce the flow rate, leaving the pattern where I put it rather than pushing it into the edge of the cup

    Hopefully this makes sense, does to me
    Ah yep that makes total sense actually haha. And when you said "i’ll start a bit earlier to allow the milk speed to increase getting the ‘around the cup’ type effect", a lightbulb went off for me, gonna implement that asap, as I've always had that trouble getting that 'around the cup' effect, or what I like to call a wrapping around (eg multiple tulip 'buds' that wrap around into each other). Thanks for that!
    Ronin likes this.

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    Pics of progress please

  12. #12
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Pics of progress please
    Ah apologies, the coffee I'd been using of late wasn't actually too bad with the double shot, the crema wasn't as thick or enduring, so pours have been pretty good mostly. I'll let you know when I have another doppio I have trouble with!
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    Both pretty good Rosetta’s mate.
    To take it to the next level is small steps of hand control really.

  14. #14
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Both pretty good Rosetta’s mate.
    To take it to the next level is small steps of hand control really.
    Thanks mate, yeah especially at work I'm really noticing the subtleties of hand movements and how it affects things. Am really trying to work on getting the pattern to curl around more in a larger arc and base rather than just a vertical 'drawing' if that makes sense.
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    One of my favourite types of Rosetta’s
    Single movement is still a classic
    Attached Images Attached Images
    RavenMad, simonsk8r and SanderP like this.

  16. #16
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    One of my favourite types of Rosetta’s
    Single movement is still a classic
    Ahhhhh... that is an absolute beauty, and my favourite type too... that's for sure what I'm working towards..

  17. #17
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Just poured this on a shot that had very very little crema (old beans) and it came out so nicely, really happy with it. Really makes me think that if there's too much crema it just acts as quite a barrier, unless there's something pros are doing prior to help break up or mix in the crema. Pouring from high up at the start perhaps? *shrugs shoulders*
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    Nice one.
    It’s a common misconception that you need crema for latte art. Other than contrast of colour a thin crema means nothing if you have set the base correctly.
    A thick crema will give more resistance that will stop the flow of milk.
    Slightly thicker milk like you have here is better for holding tulip type shapes and slightly thinner milk moves more freely for Rosetta type shapes and finer lines
    simonsk8r likes this.

  19. #19
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Nice one.
    It’s a common misconception that you need crema for latte art. Other than contrast of colour a thin crema means nothing if you have set the base correctly.
    A thick crema will give more resistance that will stop the flow of milk.
    Slightly thicker milk like you have here is better for holding tulip type shapes and slightly thinner milk moves more freely for Rosetta type shapes and finer lines
    Yeah makes sense for sure, gonna play around with it. I have a feeling the initial pour into the cup at the start has something to do with the ability to do designs later in the pour if that makes any sense... crema thickness seems to influence it too in my experience, so am trying to find ways to mix up and break up that crema so it's not so thick on top when you go to pour a design...

    But definitely milk thickness (how long you've textured) plays a big part too



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