Good stuff Gman, got some pics? (of the machine/PID & the results!)
I have just installed a PID with steam control on my Silvia and cant get over the improvement in the quality of the textured milk. Creamy and silky and Im actually starting to produce some recognisable artwork.
This is an added bonus to the consistently good espresso shots I am now pulling!!
Good stuff Gman, got some pics? (of the machine/PID & the results!)
so, excuse my ignorance, but can i get a PID for my gaggia classic? if so where from and can i install it without a professional?
Gday "cyn7180"....Originally Posted by 5E44530A0C050D3D0 link=1221277436/2#2 date=1236855031
Why not contact Jim at PID Kits (Site Sponsor over on the left) and ask his opinion. Even though he mostly works with Silvia Kits, Im sure he would be able to give you some good advice on where to start... :)
hey thanks Mal, tip much appreciated. Judging on the threads ive looked at this weekend with their pictures of wires everywhere i think Ill leave the installation to a professional! :o
Just a newbie question here which Ive been wondering a bit lately, does a PID help with producing steam? I always find it annoying that I have to use my steamer before the light goes off (on my silvia) and was hoping through having a PID I could avoid this?
Providing it is a dual set point PID it can help keep the boiler hotter while steaming. However with a single set point you can see the boiler temperature and know when to start steaming so as to just keep the light on during the whole process.
Hi cyn7180...I built one for my Classic recentlyOriginally Posted by 544E5900060F07370 link=1221277436/2#2 date=1236855031
It is not something I would recommend to someone with no electrical knowledge..do you have experience in electrical stuff or have any friends who are electricians?..if so, and they are happy to help...it will be very straight forward and easily reversible as the install needs no cutting/splicing etc...parts are easily obtained too and isnt too expensive...
Actually, if your PID has a high/low alarm output, you can use that for steam temperature control with a few extra parts:Originally Posted by 0A2635332E262B180A28292C223E470 link=1221277436/6#6 date=1239966120
Been thinking about this... Can then use the power supply to feed 2-3 LEDs to light the work area too!
I have seen this too and have looked at the circuit & wiring diagrams for the Gaggia Classic, but I am not sure if this could be done without the ac/dc supply being on the whole time? This is due to the fact that current is always flowing through the steam thermostat unless it opens due to temperature (even when brewing)...maybe a diode to prevent current to the dc supply when the steam switch is open? is this correct?Originally Posted by 36313136202E252A440 link=1221277436/8#8 date=1240094212
Looking at http://www.partsguru.com/user/ClassicCoffee_V120_Sae0298_Rev00.pdfOriginally Posted by 49626F7F6D6A7E650B0 link=1221277436/9#9 date=1240108383
and this one http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/pdf/Archive/Alt/alt.coffee/2008-03/msg00026.pdf
(or the original: http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.coffee/browse_thread/thread/64539f8088fbfc06/057fcf9866509994?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=gaggia+pid+steam+ control#057fcf9866509994 , havent read it all yet...)
Strange. The link above states disconnect the blue wire from both the steam and brew thermostat. The steam one doesnt have a blue wire (blue is live +120v, and the steam thermos is in series with the brew thermos, so no on live...).
Agree that the way he wires it, the ac/dc is always on. Not sure if thats a big deal though (he uses a cellphone charger, which is used to be always on I guess...). However, if you put the ac/dc source on the gray wire taken from the steam thermo, it would only be on when the steam switch is on, according to the wiring diagram.
By the way, shouldnt you be able to get that dc from inside the PID somewhere?
The disadvantage I can see is that while brewing the PID will be continuously in alarm mode.
"The PID is set up such that the High alarm trip point is set to 295░ F and the Low alarm trip point is set to 296░ F. This causes the alarm output to turn OFF when the temperature climbs higher than 296░ F, and to turn ON when it drops below 295░ F."
That might be a bother if the PID somehow notifies you of the alarm (I think the display flashes). Not sure if you can turn that off. I dont have a PID (yet...), so its all theory.
You dont need to any of this. Its as simple as shorting out the Steam T/stat and then use the PID Controller to control the boiler at what ever temperature you want. Just move the Setpoint from what ever you have the Brew Temp set at up to about 125C. When youre finished, move the Setpoint back down to the Brew Temp Setpoint.... Easy as, and takes but seconds to do 8-)
Ive thought about this too Mal...I guess some people just love to tinker and modify stuff because they can :DOriginally Posted by 05282C202D410 link=1221277436/11#11 date=1240142803
I like your idea and am a bit embarrassed to not have thought about it earlier... The Steam T/Stat cuts off at about 145C on my machine. Thus, I guess that there is no need to shorten it, or is the overshoot that much?
Is 125C a good temperature setpoint for steaming or should it be a bit higher?
Are there PIDs that allow you to switch between setpoints based on an external signal? Would be nice to hook that up to the steam switch.
Anyone got a databook for PIDs?
And yes, Im a tinkerer (Electrical Engineer by trade...), so Id like a shot timer implemented too if I can *8-)
Gday Daniel :)Originally Posted by 43464956270 link=1221277436/13#13 date=1240181007
Yep, 125C is about perfect from my own experience. Thermostats have a much wider dead-band and therefore are usually selected at a higher nominal temperature so as to avoid the Low cut-in temperature occurring at too low a temperature and therefore affecting the availability of hot, dry steam.
The PID Controller (if set up properly) will try and hold the Boiler Temp to the setpoint regardless of how much steam you use. Never forget though, Dual Purpose Single Boiler machines are not Steam Demons, they will eventually run the Boiler water level too low and expose the element. You should probably limit each texturing session to a max of 500ml or so and then refill the Boiler before the next session.
125C is the temperature (mean) for most commercial and prosumer machines and the reason why I initially started at this number. Steam output was so good that I never found any need to change it.... 8-)
Gday RJ,Originally Posted by 4C4B4B4C5A545F503E0 link=1221277436/14#14 date=1240212268
Another electrical engineer to the fold, good to see ;).
Yep, you can obtain Dual Setpoint PID Controllers (and more). Jim from PID Kits has such a model on offer in one of the Kit variations he has on offer. You can buy them from any decent Instrumentation supplier in Oz too but theyre not cheap unfortunately. Id give Jim a buzz and talk to him about possible options.... 8-)
I believe that the steam-switch overrides whatever the PID tells the heating element to do. Thus, if I do not shorten the steam Thermostat, then will I get steam out of the wand by setting the temperature at 125C and turning on the hot water function?
Or do I have to shorten the steam T/Stat?
Gday Daniel,Originally Posted by 3A3F302F5E0 link=1221277436/17#17 date=1240267638
Yes you do mate but it is extremely easy to do but if youre not au fait with "apparatus electricus", then please see if you can encourage a local qualified person to do it for you in exchange for some great coffee. You are playing with 240V AC when working under the bonnet of these machines so safety is paramount.... NEVER attempt to remove any covers unless the machine has been switched OFF and the plug removed from the wall socket.
Because most machines use either 4.5 or 6.4mm Spade Connectors in their wiring, visit your local DSE or Jaycar store and ask them for a Single Spade Connector, such as these stocked at Jaycar... http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...g&form=KEYWORD . This will allow you to simply disconnect the wiring from the Steam T/stat and then join the removed wiring together using these and very easily reversible. If you also grab some suitable Heatshrink tubing while youre there, you can then insulate the new joint by shrinking a couple of layers of this over the entire length. If you have any qualms though, please get someone who is qualified to do this for you.
Hope this helps you out Daniel... :)
Thank you Mal,
This may become a weekend project soon.