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Thread: Undrinkable rubber like foam

  1. #1
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    Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Just out of interest, why do some large chains produce cappucino with 3/4 of it as an undrinkable foam on the top? What causes the milk to end up like this?

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    if you were in the states I could more easily answer, but maybe the answer is fairly universal anyway...

    First, most baristas are trained by the previous idio... err... employee. Whatever they have been doing they pass on with whatever incorrect methods they added to it. The manager looks over his shoulder once or twice, and as long as there is a line at the counter and the till continues to be full, why fix what aint broken.

    Of course, calling them baristas is wrong. We refer to them as the PBTC (person behind the counter). No more a barista than the fry cook at McDonalds is a chef.

    And then there is the customer. Most have never had a proper cappuccino and would know one if they did. They would ask, "Where is the whipped cream?" or, "Why isnt there any nice foam on top? Dont you know how to make a cappuccino?" On this side of the hemisphere we blame it on *$$.

    I make a proper cappuccino at home.. I know my wife knows the difference. But if someone came over and wanted stiff foam on their drink, Id put a lamb chop in their back pocket and release the hounds!

    But seriously, the entire de-education in which the coffee chains here have participated has made it difficult, but it was one of the reasons I started my website. I try to assist and educate as many people as possible. "Paging Sisyphus... Call for Mr. Sisyphus."


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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Hubba Hubba Big bubbles no troubles ;D No thermometerI will bet and they work on the theory that the more bubbles in the milk is correct.

    I was watching at the local bakery the other day as they scalded a 1 litre jug to death and it looked like a milkshake trying to come over the top :P Milk starts to breakdown at higher temps and it changes nature. If it tasted like it needed a lot of sugar then scalded milk will be the culprit.

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by cinder link=1223355404/0#0 date=1223355404
    Just out of interest, why do some large chains produce cappucino with 3/4 of it as an undrinkable foam on the top? What causes the milk to end up like this?
    Try asking for a double ristretto at those same large chains, and see the blank response youd get.

    As Randy mentioned, poor training perpetuated over years is a main cause, but Id also add that most of these chains appeal to an undiscerning demographic whose expectations of what constitutes a coffee type has been instilled into their heads by those chains marketing/advertising.

    At the risk of demonising a coffee drinking element of society, in my experience the "extra hot, extra foamy please" caps are particularly popular with the Granny set Ive noticed.

    Unfortunately the marshmallow-like dome of foam perched precariously on the top of a cappucino aint restricted to big chains ... a lot of cafes out there still practise the old school method of moving the jug around the wand vigorously, like they have major DTs, to introduce far too much air & double the initial size of milk in the jug.

    Then, usually with a huge salad spoon, hold back the froth to pour a bit of scalded milk, then with said spoon scoop out the remaining volume with airy froth ... and then drown it with choc sprinkles.

    Ditch any idea of a genuine coffee experience at the chains cinder ... find an independent who know what theyre doing, & have some genuine passion about coffee.

    Or ... scour the domestic gear on offer by the sponsors ...
    over there <<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<
    and make your own! ;)

    Tony



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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by GrindOnDemand link=1223355404/0#3 date=1223363083
    Or ... scour the domestic gear on offer by the sponsors ...
    over there <<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<
    and make your own! ;)
    This is what is confusing me. I bought a beautiful machine last year from Chris at Talk Coffee :) Sometimes I end up with less foam than I want, but no matter what I have done, I have never ended up with anything like that. Which makes me think that they must be doing it intentionally...

    So is it a combination of overheating and keeping the nozzle too high which is doing it?

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by cinder link=1223355404/0#4 date=1223371740
    ... so is it a combination of overheating and keeping the nozzle too high which is doing it?
    Id say keeping the nozzle too high would be the main reason.

    If youre in a cafe & hear a constant ch-ch-ch sound, youre guaranteed a coffee with a lump of foam on top.

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    "ch-ch-ch" or more likely rumble-rumble-rumble ;D

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by beanflying link=1223355404/0#6 date=1223426855
    "ch-ch-ch" or more likely rumble-rumble-rumble ;D
    rumble is more the sound of burning the f$$$ out of the milk.

    ch-ch-ch is more the sound of the steam-wand too high, adding too much air.

    Aeration & milk - a recipe of disaster. :P

    You can still get micro-foam when you scold the milk, but not when youre doing the cha-cha-cha dance with the wand matey ;)

    Tony

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Its commonly called Grandma foam isnt it! Grandmas like lots of foam on their cappuccinos and if you work in a cafe that has a lot of Grandmas, your boss might like you to make the coffee this way.
    Trying to educate the older generation can be a bit hard sometimes.My mum likes her caps nice and hot, nothing like a cooked cappuccino.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Careful marty...I had a laugh...trying to educate the older generation can be a walk in the park compared to educating the younger generation. While young people may learn quicker, older people put the information to better use. ;)


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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    I suspect one difficulty is that so few shops actually sell good coffee. By the time too much milk and too much sugar has been added to kill the usual taste, all thats left is appearance.

    Convincing people that real coffee doesnt need cups of milk and spoons of sugar to taste good is an uphill battle. And older people have years more experience of bad coffee to overcome!

    I know that when I have new guests at home, I just ask whether they want their coffee black or white, and then make it my way. (This is a doppio ristretto, white is with 80ml of stretched milk.)

    No-one has ever asked for more milk, or a weaker drink. I did have one ask for some hot water to stretch the ristretto--but it was still taken black with no sugar. And nearly every person has said yes to a second cup.

    Greg

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Dennis at 37 Im probably able to offend lots of people here young and old. But you are spot on young, apprentices or young tradies just dont want to listen. You explain something to them and they appear to take in what you say, and just do the job their own way.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    No offense was taken marty - when you reverse those numbers and get to 73, I hope youre still willing and able to stir things up!
    :)

    We shouldnt be too harsh on the frothy style cappuccino - after all, coffee is evolutionary. :)

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Its also a matter of what the customer wants. If you are getting a lot of people who like very frothy coffee, and suddenly you change to lovely microfoam, and those customers dont come back.You would want to get some new customers in just to fill in that void.
    I have sat at couple of Cafes out my way, *these Ladies spend a lot of time buying cakes and biscuits one or two coffees a couple times a week it all adds up.
    I think it comes down to getting to know people who frequent your buisness and making drinks accordingly

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Hey! Im expert in producing cappas with bubbles like shampoo


    Click to resize

    Powered by Aeroccino *;D



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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by oton link=1223355404/0#14 date=1225593444
    Hey! Im expert in producing cappas with bubbles like shampoo


    Click to resize

    Powered by Aeroccino *;D


    Try poring from a different hight and angle... That will then allow you to hide / keep most of the foam in the jug ;)

    My daughter was "Trained the S*b way" and like others I have spoken to...

    1: Hot, like real hot and froth.
    2: Pore in some milk
    3: I spoon of froth = Flat white 2 spoon of froth = Latte and 3 heaped spoon of froth = cappuccino.


    Problem was, she had it beaten out of her when she came home ;D

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Thanks for the tip :). However, as i said, my "cappucino" was made with an Aeroccino. Nespresso sells it as the ultimate cappuccino gadget for its Nespresso machines, and as you can see, its pure crap.

    you can see a demo here to make a cappuccino, a machiatto and a latte.

    http://secure.nespresso.com/precom/accessories/demo/aeroccino/index.php?lang=en


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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by oton link=1223355404/0#16 date=1225824671
    Thanks for the tip :). However, as i said, my "cappucino" was made with an Aeroccino. Nespresso sells it as the ultimate cappuccino gadget for its Nespresso machines, and as you can see, its pure crap.

    you can see a demo here to make a cappuccino, a machiatto and a latte.

    http://secure.nespresso.com/precom/accessories/demo/aeroccino/index.php?lang=en
    Clearly I had it all wrong ::)....I now consider myself educated....Gonna pop my nespresso and areoccino in the boot. WBC here I come! 8-)

  19. #19
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    My God!

    Did you see what they were calling a macchiato?

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1223355404/0#18 date=1225839927
    My God!

    Did you see what they were calling a macchiato?
    Unfortunately, yes.
    Did you notice that by the time the pour had finished, the coffee hadnt just blonded - it was white. The whole thing is just yuck.

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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    Quote Originally Posted by jakes link=1223355404/0#19 date=1225841093
    Did you notice that by the time the pour had finished, the coffee hadnt just blonded - it was white. The whole thing is just yuck.
    Nespresso "espresso capsules" contains 5.5gr of coffee for a 40ml of espresso (according to Nestle) and "lungo capsules" contains 7gr for 110ml of coffee. :-?


    Now I suppose you understand why I want to buy a real espresso machine. ::)


  22. #22
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Undrinkable rubber like foam

    I watched only the macciato making.


    Greg



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