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Thread: Excited to read the following sign.

  1. #1
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    Excited to read the following sign.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    New coffee machine installed inside!
    This is the sign on the window of the corner shop in an inner melbourne suburb. This got my intrest so while peering through the window I spotted their shiny new espresso machine.
    I thought that looks familar. It was indeed a sunbeam 6910. I had to gigle a bit about it.
    Now I have one of these machines at home, so I know how good it is.
    But to see one in a comercial enviornment was a little bit of a supprise. They will make good coffee if you treat it right. I often make up to 12 coffees in a sitting and the best I have done is about 60 in 1.5 hrs at the church.
    Their machine may be ok for the occational Cap but not on a big scale.
    It just made me smile on the inside so I thought I would share.
    Regards
    Crisp Image

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 55647F6566497F7B777173160 link=1245125912/0#0 date=1245125912
    New coffee machine installed inside!
    Quote Originally Posted by 55647F6566497F7B777173160 link=1245125912/0#0 date=1245125912
    It was indeed a sunbeam 6910.
    So, Im guessing they havent paired it with a Robur? :P

    Would be interesting to see what happens if they ever get a visit from Council. :o



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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F3E353532285B0 link=1245125912/1#1 date=1245126793
    Quote Originally Posted by 55647F6566497F7B777173160 link=1245125912/0#0 date=1245125912
    New coffee machine installed inside!
    Quote Originally Posted by 55647F6566497F7B777173160 link=1245125912/0#0 date=1245125912
    It was indeed a sunbeam 6910.
    So, Im guessing they havent paired it with a Robur? *:P

    Would be interesting to see what happens if they ever get a visit from Council. * :o

    Okay Im curious...what would council say Dennis? :-?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D657D776A0E0 link=1245125912/2#2 date=1245127251
    Okay Im curious...what would council say Dennis?
    Well, I dont know if the shop already preps food, but if not, they I now my local council would require:

    Development Application - for change of use
    Environmental impact statement
    Non porous flooring with coving
    Hand basin
    Wall areas in food prep area tiled or covered in stainless, aluminium or similar material
    Commercial refrigeration
    Commercial glasswasher if serving in house
    Lighting that cant harbour insects
    Designated storage and garbage areas

    And/or, they could typically face a $3k fine plus $1500 for every day they continue and dont comply. Theres probably more you could add to the list.

    That all starts to make the 6910 pretty expensive.

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Ahhh... sure does. Sorry I have absolutely no idea of what the cafe game entails.

    That would certainly put the Robur on the backburner... ;D

  6. #6
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Are Dens points based on the assumption that there wasnt an old coffee machine there previously or that the shop wasnt already complying with some or all of those food prep regulations?

    I wouldnt be surprsied if there is a few that dont though - especially inconspicuous corner shops - or ones that serve up a good feed and are patronised by council officers :-/

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 616B7E6969667274070 link=1245125912/5#5 date=1245132121
    Are Dens points based on the assumption that there wasnt an old coffee machine there previously or that the shop wasnt already complying with some or all of those food prep regulations?
    I think his assumption is that it isnt/wasnt a food prepping shop. Would you put a coffee machine like that in a shop?

    I wouldnt...

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Ever had coffee at your accountants or mechanic? What is the implications there?

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D3234332E291805283E2B22470 link=1245125912/7#7 date=1245135241
    Ever had coffee at your accountants or mechanic? *What is the implications there?

    Potentially completely different as they are not selling it.

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B637B716C080 link=1245125912/8#8 date=1245135400
    Ever had coffee at your accountants or mechanic?What is the implications there?

    Potentially completely different as they are not selling it.

    So its ok to poison someone if you give it to them.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Interesting isnt it.

    Each State has its own food handling/safety requirements. The following is an excerpt from Food Standards Australia...

    Standard 3.2.3 - Food Premises and Equipment

    This standard sets out the requirements for food premises, fixtures, fittings, equipment and food transport vehicles. [ more ]
    What are the key provisions in this standard?

    Food business premises must:

    * have enough space for their equipment and the work that they do;
    * be protected from pests and other contaminants such as dirt and fumes;
    * be easy to clean and keep clean;
    * have enough clean water available at the right temperature for the work to be done;
    * have a disposal system for garbage, sewage and waste water;
    * have sufficient lighting and ventilation; and
    * have adequate equipment for the production of safe and suitable food.

    Food business fixtures, fittings and equipment must be:

    * appropriate for the work of the business;
    * suitable for the jobs they are used for;
    * easy to clean and, if necessary, sanitise; and
    * be made of material that does not contaminate food.

    Food businesses must make sure that they have:

    * hand basins in work areas so staff can wash their hands in warm running water if their hands are likely to contaminate food;
    * hand basins near the toilets;
    * access to toilets; and
    * storage areas for personal belongings and clothing, and also for the office equipment and papers and any chemicals used by the business.

    Vehicles used to transport food must:

    * protect the food they are carrying from contamination; and
    * be designed and constructed to ensure that food contact surfaces can be cleaned and, if necessary, sanitised.


    The application of the standard is...

    "The Food Safety Standards have been developed to ensure that food sold in Australia is safe and suitable to eat."

    The word "sold" has been highlighted by me, and I imagine is on of the keys to determining whether one needs to comply or not. Im sure different Councils and the individuals who work therein have their own interpretation, and indeed, their own set of regulations that may extend, but not diminish, State and National regs.

    Keep in mind that if you undertake all this, then youre obliged to then comply with the Building Code of Australia (BCA), that is even more specific than the above.

    I have a stainless sink with running hot and cold water at the shop, designated for personal hygiene. The BCA states that I need to provide a handbasin with running hot and cold water of sufficient size to allow for the washing of hands, arms and face. So, in my opinion the sink complies with the requirement. My local Council disagrees and would like me to either instal a separate handbasin or fix a standard handbasin within the sink.

    Q. Why?

    A. Because they think its a bit too big and despite any signage designating it for the purpose, might be mistakenly used for other purposes.

    God love em! I wish they would be as concerned about sweeping the footpath.


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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D617274796265616E000 link=1245125912/9#9 date=1245137015
    So *its ok to poison someone if you give it to them.
    Well, of course. You shouldnt expect people to *pay* you to poison them! ;D

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 515B5853544E43565F543A0 link=1245125912/11#11 date=1245144947
    Well, of course. You shouldnt expect people to *pay* you to poison them!
    Marty laughing very hard ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4842414A4D575A4F464D230 link=1245125912/11#11 date=1245144947
    Well, of course. You shouldnt expect people to *pay* you to poison them! Grin
    But some coffee is just like poison and we pay for that!!

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A4043484F55584D444F210 link=1245125912/11#11 date=1245144947

    Well, of course. You shouldnt expect people to *pay* you to poison them! ;D
    Thats right! Cigarettes should be given away for free!!!

  16. #16
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 527378787F65160 link=1245125912/10#10 date=1245140478
    So, in my opinion the sink complies with the requirement.My local Council disagrees and would like me to either instal a separate handbasin or fix a standard handbasin within the sink.
    Thats the stupidest thing I think Ive heard for quite some time.

    So what are you planning to do Dennis?

    Me, Id be asking for a ruling from Standards Australia if council cant see how ridiculous their suggestion is.

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    In my experience the council have the final say (no matter how ridiculous) and you just have to hope you get someone who isnt a nazi about how "thier" rules are enforced.

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Council standards are quite farcical, & vary hugely.

    I had to modify my original design for my mobile cafe to incorporate a second sink, purely for the contingency of washing jugs & utensils.

    Why couldnt I do that in the existing sink? :-? Didnt matter - operate, & have a second sink.

    Its been unused for 6 years.

    The food I stock is packaged, and so therefore doesnt require a food handling licence ... they didnt ask where it was packaged, or investigate any hygeine standards there ::)

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Is "just coffee" considered food?

    I was looking through our local council gidelines about food licenses and all seemed concerned only with the preparation etc of food, they requirements did not cover drinks.

    I was toying with the idea a while ago about putting in an espresso bar in the video shop. We have the space and I have the passion. Ofcourse I am sure that there is a raft of things I would have to do to get this done which is pretty much while its just a pipe dream (that, and there are already about 6 places serving coffee in the mall, 4 "specialist cafes" and 2 takeaway places IIRC, but in all my looking at legal requirements. buggered if I can find any specific requirements for drinks (or that define coffee as a food).

    Different councils may have different rules etc.

    I have thought of bringing in the 6910 / 480 combo for restricted trading days (good friday, easter Sunday, Anzac day and even xmas day) and selling coffees, but its just in the too hard basket.

    Sen

  20. #20
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 487E757A6F74691B0 link=1245125912/18#18 date=1245213073
    Is "just coffee" considered food?
    Sen, coffee is food, no matter how its consumed....fullstop!




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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 77565D5D5A40330 link=1245125912/19#19 date=1245216838
    Sen, coffee is food, no matter how its consumed....fullstop!
    Yeah, technically Den, but maybe out of the radar of a Council Health Inspector. Theyre more interested in the perishables, & bacteria attractors - like the milk added to the espresso.

    Brisbane City Council didnt pass a glance at my bean storage/date roasted etc. Just where the milk was stored, the temp, and the cleaning of jugs.

    Fairly justified IMHO ... lets give Councils a bit of credibility in their processes here :) Theyve been established because of calculable historical dodgy practises.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Hi Tony, I have a slightly different viewpoint.

    While Councils may well have been established for the purposes you suggest, for the most part they have evolved into an officious, and all too often corrupt, self-interested, incompetent, group of individuals who have convinced themselves, but very few rate payers, that they do a good job.

    My local Council asked me for a written variation request despite acknowledging it was impossible to provide two car parking spaces for my shop that were a requirement under their Environmental Plan. Yet when they decided to invest 12 months of collected rates with Lehman Bros., they asked no-one and lost the lot. No one was held accountable. In private enterprise this would be tantamount to embezzlement.

    There used to be a Council garbage bin in front of my store and another across the road. Quite a while before I moved in, the bin in front of my store was removed by Council. Their reasoning was that local residents were placing household refuse in it. The bin across the road remains. You work that out, cause for the life of me, I cant.

    These have been just two examples of what I would consider dodgy practices.

    My dealings with Council remind me of a visit to one of the many "ruins sites" in Sicily. We purchased an entry ticket from one attendant, who directed us to another attendant who collected said tickets. I kid you not, they were standing so close to each other that they could have held hands. I was convinced that I had discovered my own Councils sister Council.

    And yet, there was a time when I think Councils did a few things well. I look forward to living long enough to see it happen again. Its on my bucket list - as was going to the Antarctic (tick), and enjoying an espresso at some shabby cafe in Cuba whilst smoking a cigar (highly likely). Yet, Im afraid my dream regarding Councils will remain nothing more than that - just a dream.

    And if you dont agree with me, thats OK. I hope at least that I was entertaining.

    :)


  23. #23
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Councils ::)

    Get someone to clean my streets, collect my rubbish and then leave me alone...

    Councils are the level of government Id be happiest to see go...

    I reckon your local council would be happiest to see an empty shop where you are Den...Leeches >:(

    End of rant ;)

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01202B2B2C36450 link=1245125912/21#21 date=1245228245
    enjoying an espresso at some shabby cafe in Cuba whilst smoking a cigar (highly likely)
    hope thats a cuban espresso too! Would go well the the cigar ;)

  25. #25
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D4F4952555F493A0 link=1245125912/23#23 date=1245244387
    Quote Originally Posted by 01202B2B2C36450 link=1245125912/21#21 date=1245228245
    enjoying an espresso at some shabby cafe in Cuba whilst smoking a cigar (highly likely)
    hope thats a cuban espresso too! Would go well the the cigar *;)
    Absolutely David, though doubt Id stop at one! :D


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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F3E353532285B0 link=1245125912/21#21 date=1245228245
    as was going to the Antarctic (tick),
    Youve been to the Antarctic? Cool 8-)

  27. #27
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D372235353A2E285B0 link=1245125912/25#25 date=1245275620
    Quote Originally Posted by 1F3E353532285B0 link=1245125912/21#21 date=1245228245
    as was going to the Antarctic (tick), *
    Youve been to the Antarctic? Cool *8-)
    Well, maybe I should qualify that by saying Ive flown over the Antarctic - one New Years Eve on one of those 12 hour Qantas flights they do just a couple of times a year, weather permitting.

    It was a birthday pressie for Sue, who has a fascination for anything to do with ice, snow, and mountain adventures, particularly if the adventurer needs to gnaw their arm off, or survives for a month on Everest by rationing a mars bar.

    The plane flew low; there was no horizon; window seats; crystal clear; totally surreal.

    8-)

  28. #28
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 78595252554F3C0 link=1245125912/26#26 date=1245283155
    Well, maybe I should qualify that by saying Ive flown over the Antarctic *
    Close enough. Did you take a compass to see if it went crazy around the Magnetic SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by 78595252554F3C0 link=1245125912/26#26 date=1245283155
    Sue, who has a fascination for anything to do with ice, snow, and mountain adventures, particularly if the adventurer needs to gnaw their arm off, or survives for a month on Everest by rationing a mars bar.
    Sue certainly doesnt give the impression of the ultimate adventure seeker. I assume (or hope) her hunger for this is appeased by reading books by adventurers such *as Aron Ralston or Lincoln Hall or watching movies such as Vertical Limit or the Eiger Sanction, or even Cliffhanger (sidenote: is it true that the alternative title for this one was "Dope on a Rope"?).


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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    on the other side of the scale re:council laws, when i first bought my coffee cart i wanted council to inspect and issue me a permit to operate in the local area. The council officer was always too busy and out of the office and so i kept pestering. anyway about 2 weeks later i received a certificate in the mail permitting me to operate in the local shire. Nobody even looked at my setup and i didnt even have to pay a fee! I could have had a rats nest in the cart and no one would have known. I didnt need a food vendors licence as they said no food was prepared at the cart and i was only selling packaged biscuits.

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 53594C5B5B544046350 link=1245125912/5#5 date=1245132121
    Are Dens points based on the assumption that there wasnt an old coffee machine there previously or that the shop wasnt already complying with some or all of those food prep regulations?
    You dont happen to be a lawyer do you, flynn? If not you should consider; you certainly think like one!

    Btw thats not meant as an insult - lawyers arent as bad as theyre made out to be (or so I, mr lawyer pants, say ::))

    Squirrel

  31. #31
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A44405D414A5B2F0 link=1245125912/29#29 date=1245751822
    You dont happen to be a lawyer do you, flynn? If not you should consider; you certainly think like one! *
    Thanks CS. I did take that as a compliment. Im more the armchair lawyer. Probably a little late for that career change.

    The few lawyers Ive consulted have been nothing but professional and ethical.

    yours etc
    Christopher Murphy *BA LLB GDLP on behalf of my client who shall only be referred to as the person of interest

    Ive heard that no one knows more lawyer jokes than lawyers themselves *;D

  32. #32
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 68627760606F7B7D0E0 link=1245125912/30#30 date=1245753137
    Ive heard that no one knows more lawyer jokes than lawyers themselve
    Jokes? Theyre not jokes....Theyre absolutely, categorically, 100% true ;D

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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B312433333C282E5D0 link=1245125912/30#30 date=1245753137
    nothing but professional and ethical
    Keep looking Flynn, you might find one thats useful too!

    ;)

  34. #34
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    Re: Excited to read the following sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1E313B265F0 link=1245125912/32#32 date=1246530551
    you might find one thats useful too!
    hehehe ...well the few occasions that I have required the services of one, they have been useful. These occasions have been mostly on conveyance matters.

    Welcome back!



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