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Thread: Share Trading & SMSF

  1. #1
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Share Trading & SMSF

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    With so many people complaining that super-funds in general do not have there interests at heart

    For some time now I have been contemplating Share Trading & starting a SMSF (Self Managed Super Fund)
    Is this wise ?

    I am not a total newbie at share trading but having confidence to handle a hopefully upward growing portfolio may be overwhelming *

    I am currently researching software programs to assist me to trade
    One that comes to mind is AmiBroker
    Have also read countless books

    Things we all know

    Industry Funds claim that they have low fees and all profits benefit members

    With "Retail Funds" you pay finance brokers and higher fees without extra performance

    Now a few SMSF sites have sprung up advertising low set up costs and minimal accounting fees

    Mentor Needed (PM is OK if one wants to keep it private *;))
    What I need is a Coffee Snob that does this for a living or experienced to mentor me

    Tell me the pitfalls as well as the rewards
    Basically how to start trading by not making the same mistakes that every newcomer goes through

    So what are your thoughts ??? Good, Bad, Indifferent

    KK

  2. #2
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    I thought about a SMSF but my accountant says the paperwork is too much trouble.

    Ive been monitoring my super for over 30 and done very well.
    Just before the recent GEC got really bad I moved 66% of my funds out of my balanced option and into cash.
    That meant I lost a damned sight less than most people (who didnt even see it coming).

    As for shares, I got out of the market a few years ago.
    The prices I sold some of my holdings for, people would be envious of today.

    Ive never lost money on shares but I have missed out on some excellent returns because I err on the side of caution.

    Having spent 20 years working for a bank probably helped my understanding of the market and super.

    These days I dont see me returning to shares but I will be watching the markets to manipulate my super returns.

  3. #3
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Hey KK

    I dont trade for *a living but I do trade for what I call coffee and beer money. I dont have a SMSF, I dont even have a job. I used to be a "Buy and hold" type of share buyer. But since GFC tore my portfpolio to shreds..... *I decided to be an active trader, I will trade shares, CFDs, Indices, have tried 4X (but not my thing), *but never really had a go at options. I am not yet 40 so I have time on my side (i hope)......

    Getting people to even talk about money is a challenge.....

    When you say you are looking for a software program that can help you, what are you wanting it to show you? Do you have a current "trading plan", have you traded it enough to have effectively built you confidence in your trading. What are your goals for your trading? Did you plan to increase your capital base (via trading) or supplement your retirement income (using you cap,base as your stake) Are you going to use leverage (cfds). What are you going to trade, stocks, commodities, gold, oil, ???.

    as for programs i have tried
    Metastock is very popular, i had a look but found it too complicated for my style of trading.
    You should have a look at FCharts PRO (google it) it was written by a Australian. I gave it a go and found it pretty good, downloading data was an issue (might have been fixed?) It has a impressive array of tools that i found easy to use. The Free version is OK and you can 7 day trail the "pro".

    When you say you want to avoid the pitfalls and mistakes, i dont know if thats possible. Everyone has a different style of trading so its hard to "get advice". Or at least get advice that is not trying to sell you something......

    IMO active time in the market is the real learning arena, you got to have money on the line not paper trading to see if you can handle the pressure / stress. You have to get a plan, maybe paper trade it then backtest it a little but only real money (and real emotion) in the market can show you if its the right plan.

    Now your maybe asking (i would be) what is Maheels trading style?
    Well it is seat of our pants, CFD, no stops, what i call position trading. Maybe be in a trade 1 day, 1 week, 1 month? depends on how I see the market going and what i want from the trade.

    Now remember I said i was trading for coffee and beer money so my dollar values are low, my CFD account is about trying to see if i can "beat the market / beat managed funds / beat *SMSF / beat bank interest / etc etc" (beat them percentage wise)
    Percentage wise in just over 12 months I have hit a % return of over 100%. Sure the $$$ value is small but what it has given me is more confidence in my system, and thats what IMO is the best bit. I intend to increase the $$ value of my trades and following the same system hopefully increase the $$$ return on the trades.

    If you want to "see" every one of the trades in my "New Plan" you can. I have posted them all on another forum, trades and profit and losses, keeps me honest with myself. If you want the link to see them you can PM me and ask me questions if you want.

    Sorry for the long post, trading / investing / money is one of my true passions. I am not greedy but I dont intend to be a welfare "victim"...... Anyone can become wealthy with a little work.

    Leeham

  4. #4
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    What a great reply

    Quote Originally Posted by 3539303D3D34580 link=1254029106/2#2 date=1254046635
    as for programs i have tried
    Metastock is very popular, i had a look but found it too complicated for my style of trading.
    I would like to trial AmiBroker and customise it with source code for shares + Elliot Wave future plotting medium range
    Still developing it in my minds eye based on my style

    Quote Originally Posted by 3539303D3D34580 link=1254029106/2#2 date=1254046635
    Now your maybe asking (i would be) what is Maheels trading style?
    Well it is seat of our pants, CFD, no stops, what i call position trading. Maybe be in a trade 1 day, 1 week, 1 month? depends on how I see the market going and what i want from the trade.
    Shares are my preference buy low/sell high as long as I am out performing the market I will be happy
    I have calculated that I will need 1.6 to 2 million at time of retirement to live without a begging bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by 3539303D3D34580 link=1254029106/2#2 date=1254046635
    Sorry for the long post, trading / investing / money is one of my true passions. I am not greedy but I dont intend to be a welfare "victim"...... Anyone can become wealthy with a little work.
    You have been direct & upfront in a good way mate and I want to make it my passion as well

    Quote Originally Posted by 3539303D3D34580 link=1254029106/2#2 date=1254046635
    If you want to "see" every one of the trades in my "New Plan" you can. I have posted them all on another forum, trades and profit and losses, keeps me honest with myself. If you want the link to see them you can PM me and ask me questions if you want.
    Thanks for the offer
    PM sent ;)

    KK

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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Quote Originally Posted by 67434A4A49497367435F41432C0 link=1254029106/3#3 date=1254051304
    I would like to trial AmiBroker and customise it with source code for shares + Elliot Wave future plotting medium range
    Still developing it in my minds eye based on my style
    Depending on your programming background, AmiBroker can be a very very useful tool. I used it for a while but was never happy with the integration with my data (end of day data). None the less, the support with the amibroker yahoo group is endless and you really lose yourself in a pile of information (I guess kind of like CS!)

    But its definitely worth your while printing up the 900 page guide, spend some time getting use to the language and then back test, back test, back test!

  6. #6
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Quote Originally Posted by 66424B4B48487266425E40422D0 link=1254029106/3#3 date=1254051304
    AmiBroker and customise it with source code for shares + Elliot Wave future plotting medium range
    Personally I wouldnt get too carried away with complicated software - a bit of a time consuming distraction in my opinion. a time series shows you wht has happened in the past, but not the reasons why.

    Quote Originally Posted by 404C454848412D0 link=1254029106/2#2 date=1254046635
    you got to have money on the line not paper trading to see if you can handle the pressure / stress
    And it can get very stressful! I watched my portfolio go down about 40%, wondering where was going to stop. thankfully I have made that up again now, but it was very worrying at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 404C454848412D0 link=1254029106/2#2 date=1254046635
    Now your maybe asking (i would be) what is Maheels trading style?
    and what is Frabels trading style? Buy and hold low risk for medium to long term, adjust gearing to how I feel, take advantage of short term opportunities when arise - eg recent capital raisings where so easy to make a good return.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B4E42464E411E2F0 link=1254029106/5#5 date=1254224800
    AmiBroker and customise it with source code for shares + Elliot Wave future plotting medium range

    Personally I wouldnt get too carried away with complicated software - a bit of a time consuming distraction in my opinion.a time series shows you wht has happened in the past, but not the reasons why.
    This may be an option when I become more proficient

    Just been reading some articles and this caught my attention

    Dogs (Dingoes) of the ASX
    http://www.thebull.com.au/articles_detail.php?id=132

    Update
    I am looking at
    one mechanical system (Share Finder)
    one subscriber system (the chartist)

    To make my trading easier

    KK

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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    the dogs idea is a good one, it did have some issues during recent DIV payments / reporting season. Many of the divs were lowered :(, yeilds looked fantastic on the run up to div announcements looking at past div / share price numbers

    untill some announcements were that the divs were lower....

    but i like the DIV yield trade, often the DIV can pay the interest bill for a couple of months on a trade :) while you wait for the share to bounce back (hopefully)

    i opened an IG markest account this week.....
    $8 min trade and $1 trade for 6 weeks
    wish me luck :)

    and good trading to you KK

  9. #9
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Quote Originally Posted by 323E373A3A335F0 link=1254029106/7#7 date=1254983346
    i opened an IG markest account this week.....
    $8 min trade and $1 trade for 6 weeks
    wish me luck * :)
    Have you tried FP Markets
    They have the biggest list, including international, and are also DMA.

    KK

  10. #10
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    no, never tried them. but now you have me interested :)

    DMA for $8-10 is cheap
    But i was questioning the IG rep yesterday and he told me they quote DMA prices anyway so no spread loss just normal "market spreads".
    Not sure if you can trade withing the spread with IG?
    eg *bid spread = buy 2.95 *Sell 3.00
    and i put in a sell at 2.98 (not sure if this can be done)
    DMA you can be a "price maker" not a price taker.....
    most of my trades are on shares with no spread (.01)
    A few cent spread does not bother me anyway on my values.

    Bit of a squeeze going on with the GFC. Seems the big ASX players CBA , etrade etc are putting prices up a little and the market makers CMC IG etc are lowering the prices to the lowest they can. MMs may be losing a bit of business with all the "burnt" traders?

    seems the DOWJ wants to continue to climb (last night +60 points)
    is a 10,000 point DOWJ the next target?
    Hope so :) makes our super look better

  11. #11
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Back to the OP SMSF arent cheap. I would suggest that you would have to budget on minimum accounting & audit fees of around $1500. Some places might cost more some less. If you had anything less than $50k to invest you would be wasting your time I think because of the fees. There are also the setup costs and the ongoing costs. We do the accounting and audit in house at our firm but I know of a lot of firms that refuse to do the audit of smsfs. Those firms also struggle to find auditors to look at their funds so a lot of them sit on the shelf waiting to be audited.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Hey guys you need to read this article especially you maheel

    How to turn 20,000 into 1m; as a CFD trader
    http://www.contracts-for-difference.com/Cfd-trader.html

    KK


  13. #13
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Thanks KK... I just got spam from them!

    ::)

    Hi,

    How are you?

    I noticed that on http://coffeesnobs.com.au youre currently linking to http://www.contracts-for-difference.com/Cfd-trader.html (see link below).

    Would you be interested in developing a relationship with companies in the industry?

    Paddy Power Trader have a range of ways to add value to your website. These include text advertising, interactive widgets and professionally written unique content. We would be keen to hear if any of these services are of interest to you.

    If you have any other suggestions, well try to accommodate.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Thanks,
    Jane


    Webpage with link - http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1254029106/0

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................
    Jane Smith
    Business Development Analyst
    Content & User Experience Team
    Paddy Power plc.
    http://www.paddypower.com
    jsmith@paddypower.com

  14. #14
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    I had a laugh at paddy power


    Quote Originally Posted by 525E575A5A533F0 link=1254029106/9#9 date=1255036679
    is a 10,000 point DOWJ the next target?
    *
    so one year later

    dow jones up 1000 + points (but a roller coaster ride)
    gold up $300+ ounce
    oil up $11

    and I sat on my hands most of the year........

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Quote Originally Posted by 705F5548310 link=1254029106/12#12 date=1286451368
    Thanks KK... I just got spam from them!
    Nice to see how on top of things they are. It only took them a year to see the link! ::) ;D


    Java "It took you how long to write a contract?!" phile

  16. #16
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    I decided against a SMSF cause I dont want to micro-manage, nor do the accounting. :D

    My current financial advisor and my current "wrap" managers made almost as much out of my money last year as I did. :(

    In trying to find a place to put my super money that allows reasonable transfers, but handles the day-to-day investing, I discovered the "selectingsuper" website that offers current info on the performance and options of most superannuation funds.

    THERE IS A LOT MORE DIFFERENCE THAN I WOULD HAVE IMAGINED! Including some companies that charge very little, and have done well for the last 10 years! My current recommended wrap charges high and has poor returns--what a surprise (not). Imagine my expensive advisor not knowing that. >:(

    Im still doing calculations, and I suspect Im shifting my super.

    Greg

  17. #17
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Share Trading & SMSF

    Quote Originally Posted by 3539303D3D34580 link=1254029106/13#13 date=1286452814
    I had a laugh at paddy power


    Quote Originally Posted by 525E575A5A533F0 link=1254029106/9#9 date=1255036679
    is a 10,000 point DOWJ the next target?
    *
    so one year later

    dow jones up 1000 + points (but a roller coaster ride)
    gold up $300+ ounce
    oil up $11

    and I sat on my hands most of the year........
    And I PMed you with a tip only a couple of weeks ago ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F2A3D3F0F372A3539343C580 link=1254029106/15#15 date=1286594913
    THERE IS A LOT MORE DIFFERENCE THAN I WOULD HAVE IMAGINED! Including some companies that charge very little, and have done well for the last 10 years! My current recommended wrap charges high and has poor returns--what a surprise (not). Imagine my expensive advisor not knowing that.
    I have a fantastic advisor and I also have Wrap supper

    We sat down and did the sums on charges and wrap is not that expensive
    One thing in favour of Wrap (at least my Wrap) is that charges get cheaper as the amount grows larger

    KK



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