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Thread: The best development programs help people to help themselves

  1. #1
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    An article by Hugh Jackman in todays SMH. It is also partly about coffee but I agree with the ethic of not just handing money to disadvantaged people but providing them with the means to prosper.

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E44514646495D5B280 link=1283728655/0#0 date=1283728655
    I agree with the ethic of not just handing money to disadvantaged people but providing them with the means to prosper.
    Teach a man to fish?

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by 132F3229232235202823470 link=1283728655/1#1 date=1283733898
    Teach a man to fish?
    Yes, that philosophy.

    Though some may offer: "Teach a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day."

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    A_M
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by 353F2A3D3D322620530 link=1283728655/2#2 date=1283734124
    Quote Originally Posted by 132F3229232235202823470 link=1283728655/1#1 date=1283733898
    Teach a man to fish?
    Yes, that philosophy.

    Though some may offer: "Teach a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day."
    TG / flynn_aus I agree totally...

    I have many heated discussions over this, as I find that many do not grasp the concept or even want to. *They will go with the highlighted one above and still expect you to feed him.

    As per the expansion and support to PNG many years ago.. The term I think is Cargo Culture. *

    And my experience FIRST HAND in PNG and other places with WHO, is that getting real change and long term growth is almost impossible / very hard. * The issues around ethics / morals / culture and graft are so complex AND then toss in: the *issue of "I want it now - will pay for it later"

    However we can not afford to just give up but one has to have a tough skin and accept than many will not be happy with what ever support you provide. *Then put your efforts into those that take ownership of their needs and show/demonstrate a willingness to get involved. (fair crack)

    Same goes for people who want help with coffee machines *;)

    Last but not least is the arm chair people (usually in a position of power back at home in comfort) that have never seen or experienced it first hand and just re phrase what they have read some where... These are the ones that add to the impost of providing real sustainable outcomes.

    Sorry: An emotional rant on a subject dear to me.


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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    True - some people dont want to be helped - they want to be served. Nobody is doing them favours by pandering to that mentality.

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    One of the problems with the USA is that they seem to have forgotten their own history, and that people have to want freedom enough to go after it for themselves. It absolutely cannot be given to them by someone else.

    This appears to work from the national level all the way down to the individual. So let me add another truism "You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink."

    Greg
    ...and now back to recreation.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E5B4C4E7E465B4448454D290 link=1283728655/5#5 date=1283926402
    One of the problems with the USA is that they seem to have forgotten their own history, and that people have to want freedom enough to go after it for themselves. It absolutely cannot be given to them by someone else.
    The people in the US have forgotten nothing. Rather I would submit that many people worldwide have either forgotten, or refuse to admit, or simply not realized that what is true in most of the rest of the world is also true in the US. Namely that the people dont run the country, Big Money does. And the last thing Big Money wants is a truly free people/country. The US gives both foreign and domestic aid in both quantity and type for two reasons. To keep people just happy enough to not revolt in a way that would hurt Big Money and to make make Big Money even more money. And in regards to the so called Wars of freedom to help a repressed people, hogwash! In modern times (And arguably through-out history.) military action is launched to either cover a politicians arse or, you guessed it, to make Big Money even more money.

    In the Corporation model seen in the US and that has been exported worldwide the a priori reason for a Corporations existence is to make their shareholders as much money as possible. This is not simply what the shareholders want, it is a legal obligation.

    Ergo before you can have large scale aid at the national level that truly helps people to stand on their own and progress into the future you first have to change the system that runs a good sized chunk of this planet.


    Java "Those who refuse to open their eyes and learn from history are doomed." phile

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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Very much agreed Java.
    I would love someone to give me an example of a war launched for humanitarian reasons.
    Ive heard some people claim that imposing sanctions on Iraq which according to UN figures caused the deaths of a million people, a subsequent invasion that cost over a million lives, the export of 4 million of its educated/middle class citizens and displacing millions more, destroying its infrastructure and flattening its cities was an attempt to bring freedom to people.
    Ive also noticed a lot of discussion of aid programmes that have racist/paternal overtones. White master tell bongo bongo people how to "help themselves". A lot of the time the larger context is missing that a lot of third world countries have social/economic problems as a direct result of western imperialism, the imposing of false boundaries, divide and rule policies and exploitation. The IMF, the EU and the World Bank give aid to these countries by imposing years of unpayable debt, demands that markets are opened up to western corporations and welfare programmes destroyed.
    America might do well to remember the freedom it wanted from England was primarily the freedom of its middle class land owning citizens to exploit slaves for their own profit rather than the crowns.

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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by 370B160D070611040C07630 link=1283728655/1#1 date=1283733898
    Teach a man to fish?
    another legendary TG quote :)

    I agree education is the answer, nothing lifts people out of poverty better for a long term solution. *


    Java I disagree about big money wanting to hold people back, IMO *big money in the form of global corporations are more often than not now leading the way in solving many of the issues in areas where they operate. *If you cant beat them become a shareholder..... Most working Australians are already indirect shareholders in "big money pty ltd"

    without many of these global giants *many countries would grind to a halt OZ and the USA included.....

    Maheel

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    ...and some good news

    Aussies and Kiwis top the list of charitable countries...

    Some time to feel good about ourselves

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: The best development programs help people to help themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by 58736473627A7B7E77120 link=1283728655/6#6 date=1283931560
    The people in the US have forgotten nothing.
    Its really nice to hear that at least some havent forgotten, Javaphile--many of the people on other fora I frequent have either forgotten or been "conned".

    Greg



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