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Thread: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

  1. #1
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well here is a snipet from the article that ran in our local newspaper after last weekends Coffee Course !

    Why had he run the clinic?

    Mr Blair said he thought the standard of coffee served in Whangarei cafes was "very, very low" but uninformed customers did not complain.

    "If people manage to drink it they dont say anything.
    Id like to see the standard raised so people could confidently insist on being served really good coffee," he said.


    Well I have had the official call from my co-host and his clients (he supplys coffee to local cafes) are not happy to say the least ::)
    He wishes to dis-associate himself from me and my comments, and tells me I have cost him business and all I created was negativity :-/

    Oh well I am a big boy, Ill not lose any sleep !

    Whatever happened to telling the truth?

    Chris

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...


    Hmmm. So is it the standard of coffee served Chris, or the standard of the roasting?

    I guess if its the former, the Roaster has some accountability for that too, though it can be darned hard to manage!


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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    See now that reallllllllllly p*sses me off.

    If you are supplying coffee, why do you not want that coffee made at the highest standard? Why encourage an atmosphere of acceptable mediocrity? Its the fast and easy route to unloading stock and turning a dollar, but slowly building up a reputation for quality has surely got to bring greater rewards in the long run.

    Im sorry to hear you werent given the support you should have gotten for your stance Chris. I dont know how many cafes are in that area, but I would not have thought that comment youve quoted indicated any specific cafes, so I dont know how this could have cost business, unless customers have this week decided to stand up and say no I wont pay for this swill in every cafe in town.

    I like to think that the truth always wins out, but its been known to get beat up by $$$. Good on you for speaking out.

  4. #4
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    We are talking "Flat Whites" that are bitter, let alone a short black.
    I would be surprised if ANY barista (coffee maker) in Whangarei even new the roast date let alone what the blend was. No SOs in Whangarei at all in fact the majority of places cannot answer what BRAND of coffee they use "Seriously"

    Yes i know i am doing something about it ;)

    Chris

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    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D2A2B3520212A7E7D7E4F0 link=1256000922/0#0 date=1256000922
    Well here is a snipet from the article that ran in our local newspaper after last weekends Coffee Course !

    Why had he run the clinic?

    Mr Blair said he thought the standard of coffee served in Whangarei cafes was "very, very low" but uninformed customers did not complain.

    "If people manage to drink it they dont say anything.
    Id like to see the standard raised so people could confidently insist on being served really good coffee," he said.


    Well I have had the official call from my co-host and his clients (he supplys coffee to local cafes) are not happy to say the least *::)
    He wishes to dis-associate himself from me and my comments, and tells me I have cost him business and all I created was negativity *:-/

    Oh well I am a big boy, Ill not lose any sleep !

    Whatever happened to telling the truth?

    Chris
    Here was a perfect oppertunity for them to step up and put the place on the map...

    Instead it appears that they have taken the information out of context and shot the messanger and may well continue to produce the same crap....

    Feeling for ya..

    What the link to the local rag... Maybe some feedback ??

  6. #6
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/local/news/coffees-not-all-equal-says-keen-roaster/3905492/

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Did the reporter like your presentation & coffee?

    KK


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    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 4453524C595853070407360 link=1256000922/5#5 date=1256011367
    http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/local/news/coffees-not-all-equal-says-keen-roaster/3905492/ *
    Feedback can be posted here..

    http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/feedback/letters-to-the-editor/

    My feedback basicly stated that;

    People should not shoot the messenger and that even with a top roaster and beans; the person making the coffee has a significant role to play..

    The cafes and other establishments should re visit the training of the staff and use this an an oppertunity to lift their game...

    NOT SHOOT THE MESSANGER...

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Hmmmm... no option to comment on the story on the newspaper site. Pity.

    I think the story is fine (and we all know how a little one liner can become a generalisation), I think your friends reaction and those of the cafes is dubious though.

    If their coffee is not at a "very, very low" standard then I assume they would be happy to put their coffee up against yours in a blind taste test?

    It wouldnt be too hard to find some competition level judges in NZ... Im sure Carl or Emma would be there in a shot if it would raise the bar for local coffee.

    I smell a challenge.
    ;D

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D3238255C0 link=1256000922/8#8 date=1256011985
    Hmmmm... no option to comment on the story on the newspaper site. *Pity.

    I think the story is fine (and we all know how a little one liner can become a generalisation), I think your friends reaction and those of the cafes is dubious though.

    If their coffee is not at a "very, very low" standard then I assume they would be happy to put their coffee up against yours in a blind taste test?

    It wouldnt be too hard to find some competition level judges in NZ... Im sure Carl or Emma would be there in a shot if it would raise the bar for local coffee.

    I smell a challenge.
    ;D
    As per my post above... Feedback and just use teh Story line as the subject :-)

    http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/feedback/letters-to-the-editor/

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    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Ha ha KK, no mate a guy randomly rings me up as the course was starting then fronts up takes some pictures and goes. Next day (Sunday) a reporter rings up and we talk for 5 minutes and thats what he pulls out of my answers. I am all good with the article albiet a bit muddled but thats ok. Its the guy I included to help with it who reakons its all negative. He says its all my opinion only which is true (that and EVERY person I know that goes out for coffee) The people I spoke to at work today were rapt and we had 21 feedback forms with great comments and I am running another in Feb as 75% of the people want a more specific course on pour over and espresso making.
    All good, thanks for your support :)

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    My letter:

    Good on Chris Blair. I am sick of getting crap coffee from cafes only to be told "we never had any complaints before". You are paying for it and should demand a certain standard, and if sub-standard operators have a problem with it they should get out of the game. Consumer rights have not been well defended in this area. The excuse that its just a cup of coffee, only worth a few bucks, is no reason to not provide satisfactory goods and services. Lift your game or face a backlash - people should vote with their dollars and let bad cafes know!


    Ooooh now I feel like an old person with a stationary set. My first letter to the editor! haha

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Good on you I reckon. I wish I had the guts to speak up about bad coffee but I think Id sound like a broken reckon around here. :-/ Fortunately there are a couple of cafes that care, but it took me 3 months to find them.

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    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    UPDATE Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Have a look at the comments from this happy couple.....
    This was in tonights "Letters to the Editor" ;)




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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...


    So whats the coffee like there Chris? ;D

    If you get driven out of town, Sylvania AU is quite a nice place to be. :)


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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Standard outrage I have come up against when I comment to cafes about the [s]swill[/s] coffee I have been served up. One just because you have been doing something for a long time doesnt mean you are good at it and two just because your friends say you are doing a great job doesnt mean you are.

    Chris I feel for you I hope things get better before they get worse, who knows maybe you will lift the standard by this focus. (but dont hold your breath)

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    And there was absolutely no commercial interest from them in putting that letter in? Unbiaised report, my grandmas patootie!

    The pictures not the best, I suppose, but all I can see on top of that coffee is white froth...wheres the crema???

    I feel for you, Chris and - besides being a couple of thousand ks away - you have my support, also.

  18. #18
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Funny Den my wife just said we may have to move ot Aussie ;D
    I have penned a reply and Ill post it if it gets printed. I have been emailing the editor direct as I know him and he said there were 2 places in town that had won awards that he wont go to as the coffee was undrinkable, so that one fan ;)
    No its all good i have been getting plenty of "good on yous" to keep me fired up on the subject. Game On :)

    Chris

    ps: thanks again for your support you guys and gals all rock !

  19. #19
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    I reckon Andy has the idea--a coffee tasting.

    Offer a challenge and see what happens.

    Greg

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    If you step outside Redzone and listen carefully, youll hear a faint Aussie roar on the soft westerly [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Keep it up!

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    One should enquire if they follow the World Barista Championships and if they are members of the NZ chapter of the AASCA

    When I test people on there coffee knowledge I generally ask a couple of lead questions
    1) Is roasted coffee a perishable food
    2) what are the 3 threes of coffee

    If they cant answer those questions after 16 years of cafe experience then they are not a cafe that serves coffee for coffees sake they are in fact a food establishment that serves coffee to wash down the food

    KK

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    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    They keep ratting on about the Roasters and teh Cafes ..

    As usual they missed the point...

    It was about the in abaility to make a good cup.. Not the food and or the roasters... *Had poisen a number of times form places that served great food and thought they could make a coffee... Instant would have been better..

    In addition the 16 years, sounds more like the usual .... lets play with numbers and the context of those years......

  23. #23
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 293E3F2134353E6A696A5B0 link=1256000922/17#17 date=1256200472
    No its all good i have been getting plenty of "good on yous" to keep me fired up on the subject. Game On *:)

    Chris
    onya Chris.

    Anybody whos seriously "on" about anything will welcome an opportunity to lift their game and learn more about what theyre "on" about.

    The complaints come from people blasted out of their comfort zones. Anybody who actually wants to learn recognises the need for the absence of comfort.

    Were right there with ya. Go for it. *[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

  24. #24
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C697E7C4C7469767A777F1B0 link=1256000922/18#18 date=1256201263
    I reckon Andy has the idea--a coffee tasting.

    Offer a challenge and see what happens.

    Thats something I included in my reply ;)

    Chris

  25. #25
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    to kinda play devils advocate for a moment ...

    just because we can roast up some good coffee at home and seek/achieve godshots in our kitchens doesnt necessarily mean we can step into a commercial environment and tell the operator yer doin it wrong no matter how wrong they might be, or we think they might be.

    After all, theyre still trading, they have customers, so they must be doing SOMETHING right.

    I think its important for us snobs to keep in mind that what we have access to in terms of product, info and support through this website (and the personal networks we build as a result) is likely more immediate, more useful and of a much higher quality than what a large commercial roaster can or will provide to a cafe on contract.

    While we may, or think we might know more, were not in that business, were not analysing the P&L every week/month/quarter/year so we dont know if theyre doin it wrong or not. Is it possible that we might be able to suggest ways to improve the coffee product on offer in many cafes in our local area? More than likely yes.

    Do media outlets deliberately misquote people and twist their words to suit the pitch of their story? Most certainly.

    Does this sort of response actually point to a gap in the market that could be filled by a motivated snob? I certainly think so! (Dennis, got anything to add on this one?)

    I guess what Im saying is that I think we need to be careful what/how we comment or provide feedback to cafes and coffee purveyors in our local area or somewhere we might be visiting. What we have learned through this awesome website can be useful for improving the general level of quality but I think we should be mindful that its someones livelihood that could be effected by what we say. Dont get me wrong, Im all for improving the quality of coffee served overall.

    All that said, I fully support your efforts to improve the quality of coffee served in your local cafes. If you get run out of town Chris, we have a spare room! Plus you dont need big hairy hobbit feet to live in St Peters like you do down in The Shire, where Sylvania is. *;D ;D *

  26. #26
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Point taken hazchem :)

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    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 48415A4348454D200 link=1256000922/24#24 date=1256242302
    I guess what Im saying is that I think we need to be careful what/how we comment or provide feedback to cafes and coffee purveyors in our local area or somewhere we might be visiting. What we have learned through this awesome website can be useful for improving the general level of quality but I think we should be mindful that its someones livelihood that could be effected by what we say. Dont get me wrong, Im all for improving the quality of coffee served overall.
    Agree fully... However if you look at what has been said and take it all in context... My perception...

    Redzone has stated / implied that teh quality of the coffee being SERVED is not as great as it could be...

    He has attempted to include the Roaster and make people aware that quality beans are a must. At no stage did I see it reported that the roaster was not providing a good service.

    Some people have taken it / responded that their cafes are great and that the do a great service etc. I am sure that many of us would agree that some places do great food etc but miss the boat with good coffee.

    As sated previously; Here is an opportunity to step up their game in one area and instead, they attack the messenger.

    PS. The editor wanted my full contact details.. SO maybe my comments or part of ::) may get made public...



  28. #28
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    After all, theyre still trading, they have customers, so they must be doing SOMETHING right.
    Sometimes all they are doing right is being located in a good position.

    When I was working in North Sydney I observed that those cafes in the best traffic areas got the most customers.
    It was convenient coffee not good coffee.

    Being a former banker I can analyse P&Ls and would like to see what they were for the place I worked at temporarily (though I doubt they existed).

    The place had huge potential to improve (mostly by taking advantage of the foot traffic flow) but as I said recently, the owner was forever sitting down having a coffee with his mates and the place has since closed down.

    (The coffee could have been better too.)


  29. #29
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 7079627B707D75180 link=1256000922/24#24 date=1256242302
    Does this sort of response actually point to a gap in the market that could be filled by a motivated snob? I certainly think so! (Dennis, got anything to add on this one?)
    I agree with you Hazchem.

    Im sure you could walk into more than 90% of cafes and not even look at the menu to know whats on offer. *These ones are not about serving fantastic coffee. *They are there to make an OK meal and as someone said, wash it down with a cup of Joe. *They are there because they chose a business that would make a profit. *I dont think they are there because they relish early starts and late finishes, cleaning tables, etc. but do enjoy working with the public. *

    Chris was asked for comment and he made it. *Fair enough. *Though if you owned a profitable cafe, frequented by loyal, returning customers, and felt you were doing a pretty good job, wouldnt you too would be offended and probably react in some way.

    Yesterday I worked 18 hours with a 30 minute break, and loved every minute. *When you do that, along side me, then Ill welcome suggestions on how I can improve my business. *I am a living example of someone who decided to put their money where their mouth is and Im glad to say its working out well. *

    But until you do that, youre just all talk. *So better to keep your nose out of other peoples business and focus on your own P&L.

    PS. Aaron, Ive seen your hairy feet. *;D




  30. #30
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    More in Saturdays paper anyone want me to post a picture?

  31. #31
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Ok just kidding, was just tidying it up with paint, you dont want to know our goss outside of coffee do you?

    Chris


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    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    PS: Steve Agi said it was ok to prematurely flog the International Coffee mag bit, as I have done the reviews they just have not gone to print yet. ;)
    So you maybe in for some Kiwi Cafes for a change !

  33. #33
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Good letter - did you notice that (I think) AMs letter was directly after the one from Scott Nicholl? You chopped a bit of it off, though - it would be good if you could post that one, also.

    (It would be nice to read something of AMs that doesnt refer to a womans place being in the kitchen chained to the stove... ;D Just joking!)

    Cheers
    Di


  34. #34
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Cheers Di
    I just chopped AMs name off thats all ;)

    Chris

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...


    OUTRAGE... you need to sue the pants off this newspaper and their reporter.

    In the photo cation they called you a barista!

    (roaster Andy scarpers away from the baristi lobbing milk jugs at him again... might have to stop this habit.)


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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Interesting reading. There is bad coffee wherever you go and I believe that it is due to lack of interest and enthusiasm. For some people it is "just a job" not something they really want to do. 90% of coffee that comes out of cafes is either too hot or too cold, do people even know what temperature brings out the natural sweetness in milk? If you have to put sugar in a flat white then there is something drastically wrong.
    Im not having a go at cafe owners Im just saying that staffs training is not always up to scratch. You wouldnt open a garage and start fixing peoples cars if you knew nothing about them would you?

  37. #37
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    For consumers
    Weaning people from what they know is like breaking a life long habit
    It is incredibly hard to do

    For service providers
    Specialty Coffee standards are in place for all to follow

    KK

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B7C6A7860130 link=1256000922/32#32 date=1256358137
    Good letter - did you notice that (I think) AMs letter was directly after the one from Scott Nicholl?
    Cant be AMs letter, Di. The author spelt the correctly. ;)

    *just kidding* ;D

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F696A687F69697F7E45736945787F696E1A0 link=1256000922/35#35 date=1256359485
    Interesting reading. There is bad coffee wherever you go and I believe that it is due to lack of interest and enthusiasm. For some people it is "just a job" not something they really want to do.

    True:
    90% of coffee that comes out of cafes is either too hot or too cold, do people even know what temperature brings out the natural sweetness in milk? If you have to put sugar in a flat white then there is something drastically wrong.

    So why do most places have extra large sugar bowels ;D
    Im not having a go at cafe owners Im just saying that staffs training is not always up to scratch. You wouldnt open a garage and start fixing peoples cars if you knew nothing about them would you?

    There are plenty that do...
    As to teh comments as to teh way "the" might be speelt; then one must assume teh identity of teh person is still secure. * :o *;D *:D *8-) I guess a hard copy of the article could be teh telling......

    "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? " *giggled like a schoolgirl.. *Housewives *;)



  40. #40
    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    So any more letters on this matter ?

    I liked this post...

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1256297168/4#4

    See ..... People from across the ditch can exceed at coffee.... And looks like they are doing it well.

    Take care and let us know how your next info / appriciation session goes... Maybe you could offer a free place to some of teh critics ;)

  41. #41
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Hi AM

    I have not bothered getting the paper this week as I thought the dust had settled, but a friend just called in and said I see you are still in the news (yesterday) so ill see if I can get a looksy.
    By the way thanks to you I have been called the "messenger" many times ;D

    Chris

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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 415657495C5D56020102330 link=1256000922/40#40 date=1256867697
    Hi AM

    I have not bothered getting the paper this week as I thought the dust had settled, but a friend just called in and said I see you are still in the news (yesterday) so ill see if I can get a looksy.
    By the way thanks to you I have been called the "messenger" many times *;D

    Chris
    But are they taking on the issue that your a messanger or are they still looking to shoot / spear / net and export to another country ?

    Just do not get calsified as a pest with a bounty... I need to come over and pot a few possums... *Just dont want to see you in my iron sights *:o

    Then again.. If they are still serving crap coffee I will have the shakes and miss :D

  43. #43
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Just had an angry man on the phone, better get that copy quick.
    He is not happy with comments from someone in Brisbane I had a laugh ;D

    Messenger, yes they are quite happy to shoot me ha ha .

    Chris

  44. #44
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A6D6C7267666D393A39080 link=1256000922/42#42 date=1256873036
    Just had an angry man on the phone, better get that copy quick.
    He is not happy with comments from someone in Brisbane I had a laugh *;D

    Messenger, yes they are quite happy to shoot me ha ha .

    Chris
    I know where he lives
    But I wont tell :-X :-X :-X

    KK

  45. #45
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    ""He has attempted to include a local roaster""

    This was the line that made "angry man" go off. He is the only local roaster. AMs reference was regarding one of our local coffee middle men of a fairly large National roasting company who only recently added roast dates to their offerings.
    So "angry man" thought I had mentioned him ::)

    Anyway I managed to keep my cool and just listened to his complaints that ended up covering just about everything I had ever said (funny he only had one point to start with) but my wife said she wants the phone next time 8-)


    A kickbox to the head would be nicer for him ;D


    Chris

  46. #46
    A_M
    A_M is offline
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 7760617F6A6B60343734050 link=1256000922/42#42 date=1256873036
    Just had an angry man on the phone, better get that copy quick.
    He is not happy with comments from someone in Brisbane I had a laugh *;D

    Messenger, yes they are quite happy to shoot me ha ha .

    Chris
    So what was there to complain about... Nothing agenst roasters... Just BariSTARS :D

  47. #47
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    AM I have it on good authority they all have Certificates ::)

    CB

  48. #48
    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D5A5B4550515A0E0D0E3F0 link=1256000922/46#46 date=1256879585
    AM I have it on good authority they all have Certificates *::)

    CB
    so you guys have Kelogs over there 2.

    Certificates aint certificates..... I would rather a pasionAte and experienced one any day. *They tell me you can order brides on line and they come with a certificate?

    Say no more.

  49. #49
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    I have 2 certificates.

  50. #50
    A_M
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    Re: Snobs quote leads to outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by 122E3328222334212922460 link=1256000922/48#48 date=1256893839
    I have 2 certificates.
    So does that make you twice as good as the mail order ?

    Opps..... Context please TG :o



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