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Thread: Government wants to ban Bullbars

  1. #1
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    Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    As the title says, the Government wants to ban Bullbars.
    Yes Im a coffee nut but I also love 4wds and 4wdriving and camping, (i take some ground coffee and a plunger camping) I live in country Victoria. If you own a 4wd or a regular car you would like to have a bar on to protect against animal strikes, you should have a look here at http://www.4wdaction.com.au follow the link there, read the write-up, watch the vid and submit your disaproval.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    This again! They were making noises about it about 5 years ago, but it ended up going nowhere: I think the ruling they were proposing was that City Dwellers had no requirement for bullbars, so if you lived in a city, you couldnt have one. You were okay if you were in the country, though.

    Mind you, there are times when you just have to shake your head. Picking my children up from school yesterday and there was a late model top of the range 200 Series Landcruiser that had obviously never gone off road in its life because it was immaculate, that had the sort of bullbar on it that Id probably put on a farm vehicle in the Great Sandy Desert. Seriously, it was made of havy duty checkerplate and almost entirely covered the front of the vehicle and weighed more than the car itself.

    My comment to Pete was that they obviously did a lot of driving through wildlife parks and wanted to be sure they would be protected in case they ran into an elephant. Serious overkill!!! ::)

    But, yes, I do agree with the fact that you do need one if you any sort of country highway driving, just on account of roos or cattle, although Ive seen a few cases of roos ending up in the drivers lap after passing over the bull bar and through the window, also! :o


    Cheers
    Di

  3. #3
    A_M
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 597E687A62110 link=1296285737/1#1 date=1296297676
    This again! * They were making noises about it about 5 years ago, but it ended up going nowhere: I think the ruling they were proposing was that City Dwellers had no requirement for bullbars, so if you lived in a city, you couldnt have one. *You were okay if you were in the country, though.

    Mind you, there are times when you just have to shake your head. Picking my children up from school yesterday and there was a late model top of the range 200 Series Landcruiser that had obviously never gone off road in its life because it was immaculate, that had the sort of bullbar on it that Id probably put on a farm vehicle in the Great Sandy Desert. Seriously, it was made of havy duty checkerplate and almost entirely covered the front of the vehicle and weighed more than the car itself.

    My comment to Pete was that they obviously did a lot of driving through wildlife parks and wanted to be sure they would be protected in case they ran into an elephant. *Serious overkill!!! * ::)

    But, yes, I do agree with the fact that you do need one if you any sort of country highway driving, just on account of roos or cattle, although Ive seen a few cases of roos ending up in the drivers lap after passing over the bull bar and through the window, also! *:o


    Cheers
    Di
    Yep...

    Just like Coffee machines ;D

    Fit for purpose and then a bit extra when it comes to peer preasure or SHOWING OFF.

    PS. Mine is bigger than yours :o

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    That it is, AM, that it is...

    :D

    (Otherwise, Pete would be seriously worried...or do you mean coffee machines???)

  5. #5
    A_M
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 153224362E5D0 link=1296285737/3#3 date=1296300013
    That it is, AM, that it is...

    :D

    (Otherwise, Pete would be seriously worried...or do you mean coffee machines???)
    Fifth amendment :-X

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    BAN THEM !! this nanny state does not need them.....

  7. #7
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    If we ban them, it will emasculate all the B&S ute drivers...their vehicles will all roll over onto their roofs (rooves?) because they wont have anything to balance out the spotties and Antennaes!!!

    :)

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    For most of my life I have been in the bush.

    I have never hit a pedestrian or cyclist with or without a bar.

    On most of the roads I have driven there have been very few pedestrians or cyclists but many roos.

    I have driven many miles and kms in the country in cars, utes and in four wheel drives with and without bull bars or roo bars. A roo bar doesn’t have a bar below the bumper bar.

    The time when I was most pleased to have the protection of an alloy roo bar was late one night when a large Eastern Grey Kanga landed in front of me without any warning.

    The bar was bent as was the bumper bar and one headlight and mudguard. The bar may have prevented the roo from coming onto the bonnet and through the windscreen. The vehicle still could be driven, thanks to the bar. No dammage to my radiator or bonnet.

    Sadly the roo died. Although I felt more for my car than the roo at the time.

    A quote from:
    http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topics/abc-government-considers?commentId=1321712%3AComment%3A236594&xg_ source=activity

    "This is GOOD NEWS. Of more than 300 pedestrian fatalities, only 29 were caused by vehicles WITH a bullbar. This means the other 271 fatalities were caused by vehicles WITHOUT a bullbar. Clearly showing that if all the other cars HAD bullbars, the toll would be much less...."

    Seriously if bars are banned, it will not save many pedestrians, but there could be more deaths of drivers and passengers in country vehicles by kangaroos coming through their windscreens.

    I now live in Sydney and dont have a bullbar on my Prius.

    Barry

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 163526262D0B10213A37353A540 link=1296285737/7#7 date=1296338372
    F
    A quote from:
    http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topics/abc-government-considers?commentId=1321712:Comment:236594&xg_sour ce=activity

    "This is GOOD NEWS. Of more than 300 pedestrian fatalities, only 29 were caused by vehicles WITH a bullbar. This means the other 271 fatalities were caused by vehicles WITHOUT a bullbar. Clearly showing that if all the other cars HAD bullbars, the toll would be much less...."

    So are you suggesting if the other 271 cars that were involved in fatal pedestrian accidents had bull bars that a lot less people would have been killed?

    If you really believe that you are silly enough to put a bull bar in your prius.

    How much is a human life worth?

    Perhaps this depends on how well you know the person involved :(

    While accidents do happen any car accessory is not a substitute for careful driving.

    Perhaps if they removed the drivers from the cars then the cars would not move. This should cause a dramatic reduction in the road toll.

    Things on the road have just not been the same since they banned drink driving and made wearing seat belts compulsory :D

  10. #10
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 505B5A6B5A555D465A340 link=1296285737/8#8 date=1296346041
    Quote Originally Posted by 163526262D0B10213A37353A540 link=1296285737/7#7 date=1296338372
    F
    A quote from:
    http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topics/abc-government-considers?commentId=1321712:Comment:236594&xg_sour ce=activity

    "This is GOOD NEWS. Of more than 300 pedestrian fatalities, only 29 were caused by vehicles WITH a bullbar. This means the other 271 fatalities were caused by vehicles WITHOUT a bullbar. Clearly showing that if all the other cars HAD bullbars, the toll would be much less...."

    So are you suggesting if the other 271 cars that were involved in fatal pedestrian accidents had bull bars that a lot less people would have been killed?

    If you really believe that you are silly enough to put a bull bar in your prius.

    How much is a human life worth?

    Perhaps this depends on how well you know the person involved :(

    While accidents do happen any car accessory is not a substitute for careful driving.

    Perhaps if they removed the drivers from the cars then the cars would not move. This should cause a dramatic reduction in the road toll.

    Things on the road have just not been the same since they banned drink driving and made wearing seat belts compulsory :D
    Settle down petanque.

    I took the quote to be humourous.
    It shows how stupid statistics can be.

    Heres the clue. You said it yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by 505B5A6B5A555D465A340 link=1296285737/8#8 date=1296346041
    If you really believe that you are silly enough to put a bull bar in your prius.
    Quote Originally Posted by 765546464D6B70415A57555A340 link=1296285737/7#7 date=1296338372
    I now live in Sydney and dont have a bullbar on my Prius.

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Perhaps being silly enough to drive a conventional car on unsealed roads I have made the observation that there are some 4wd drivers that seem to think that basic road rules such as keep to the left and try to avoid other cars dont apply to them.

    Having a school age child near schools it seams I that some drivers are more interested in driving fast and arriving first rather than the safety of other people. These people seem to disproportionately own larger high performance cars. A very small number have cars with bull bars.

    Will removing bull bars from cars change driver behavior?

    It seems unlikely.

    Does it really comes down to. should you ban something because there are a small number of users that use it irresponsibly?

    After all if a 25Km an hour speed limit near schools seems optional why should any other road rules apply?

    Or should the laws that already exist to control "bad" behavior be enforced?

    To me it seems that if the current laws that exist are not being enforced introducing more laws that are unlikely to be enforced seems a political (vote for me I am tough on crime) answer rather than a practical answer that may actually change something hopefully for the better.


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    TC
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    The biggest issue on our roads is not bullbars, its what they might hit in built up areas if (when) people dont concentrate.

    Most accidents I see are due to one or more numb nuts texting, with mobile glued to their ears, playing with stuff and essentially doing everything other than concentrating on the task at hand. Young drivers, truckies and tradies are some who seem to be notorious for this. I wouldnt have thought a bluetooth is that hard to obtain or manage *::)

    While road policing occurs with cameras and we dumb down the process so that the stoopids are still allowed to drive, nothing much will change. Yesterday I followed a bloke on his phone and eating a hamburger. Buggered if I know what he was using to steer. *>:(

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Do you think insurance companies know about car accidents?

    What other industry has pricing that some people get a huge discount and others pay extra?

    Are some people just a menace on the road?


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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 615D405B515047525A51350 link=1296285737/9#9 date=1296346428
    I took the quote to be humourous.
    It shows how stupid statistics can be.
    Thats right. That is why I put it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by 515A5B6A5B545C475B350 link=1296285737/10#10 date=1296348598

    Will removing bull bars from cars change driver behavior?

    It seems unlikely.
    I agree.

    As to drink driving, I lived beside the Pacific Highway at South Kempsey when the breathalyser came in. What was noticable was the reduction of emergency vehicles passing my flat at night.

    Also I had to be very careful as the police regularly set up their trap about 30m from my door where I was tested about 5 times, all negative.

    As far as driver regulations go, drink driving and bull bars are totally different things. Driving over the limit causes many more deaths than bull bars. However a drunk driving a vehicle with a bull bar can do a lot of dammage.

    Barry

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E594F5D45360 link=1296285737/1#1 date=1296297676
    there was a late model top of the range 200 Series Landcruiser that had obviously never gone off road in its life
    youre probably right, but its not always a fair assumption. a relo of mine was accosted by some bloke at the servo who accused him of being a "city" 4WDriver too afraid to take his Cruiser off road. truth was he had just got down here from NT / northwest WA, and the car had been to many of the most remote parts of the country. hed given it a good wash before going to the servo...
    briefly explained to the bloke his mistake and got a grunted "oh" in response

    as for legislating on bullbars on cars in the city, many people travel outside the city quite regularly and so have a valid purpose for the bullbar on their car. to expect people to own a separate car for country travelling would be nuts.

    maybe in time theyll come up with some legislation to require removable bullbars or something. Its technically illegal (so Im led to believe - although probably never enforced) to leave a removable tow bar on your car when youre not towing, so who knows? maybe theyll try something similar for the other end...

  16. #16
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 426E6E716473373852010 link=1296285737/14#14 date=1296379119
    Quote Originally Posted by 7E594F5D45360 link=1296285737/1#1 date=1296297676
    there was a late model top of the range 200 Series Landcruiser that had obviously never gone off road in its life *
    youre probably right, but its not always a fair assumption. *a relo of mine was accosted by some bloke at the servo who accused him of being a "city" 4WDriver too afraid to take his Cruiser off road.
    Nah, I had a good look at the vehicle as I was walking past and there were no scratches, marks, anything that indicated that this vehicle had ever gone off road. *Being from the North of WA, and having a husband that is a very keen off-road 4WDer, you get to know the telltake signs of a car thats been taken off the road. *This car was immaculate.

    The thing that got me about it, though, was not the fact that it had a bumper bar, but the size of that bumper bar. It was the most robust one Ive seen in all of my 4WDing days, and Ive belonged to quite a few 4WD clubs with Pete and seen a huge amount of bumper bars. *This was similar to what it had on - a massive overkill unless you live in the middle of game territory in Africa.
    :o

    My own personal view is that people should have one if they NEED one, but the problem is how do you administrate this? I dont think people should be penalised monetarily for having one (ie; higher registration costs) but it wouldnt worry me if they brought in some sort of system to determine need for people that lived in the city, or some sort of removable one.

    Problem is, how do you make it easily removable - those buggers are heavy! - and what do you do if youve mounted an antennae on it and need that antennae for work or similar? *Possibly make it that you have to show proof of belonging to a club and, for those that may do the occasional highway driving, go back to the plastic ones they had in the 80s, which are enough to (sort of) protect you from a roo hit. *The benefit to those jobbies are that if you hit the roo softly enough, the roo can survive because they flex, as my parents found out when they had one.

    Cheers
    Di




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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Yep nothing bugs me more than seeing a 4wd all dressed up with nowhere to go! BUT, how do you know theyre not a fanatical car nut who keeps their vehicle looking pristine but heads bush often? I know one of these people.

    Having said that, we have bullbars. We live 15kms outside of a country town and we have roos everywhere, right up to our driveway and sometimes coming through the backyard. Particularly during winter, Im often driving home in the dark and while I know where the roos normally are and drive accordingly, sometimes they pop in the most unexpected of places. I wouldnt live out here without one.

    The plastic vs steel bar is interesting...we have a plastic Smartbar on our Prado (I put it on) and my old Triton came with a steel bar. One of the factors we looked at with this bar, was its pedestrian friendly design - we hit a roo at 80km/hr once with the plastic bar and amazingly it survived the impact but suffered a broken back and had to be put down, whereas Im sure the steel one would have killed it outright.

    I dont know what the best solution is but I know if we were living in the city (and maintained our camping/touring lifestyle), I would also put a Smartbar on the Triton. Perhaps a similiar restriction on the style of bar according to postcode? I really dont know.

    Anyway, bit late for coffee Im guessing?

    Mark.

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    It is my understanding that Australian design rule state that no accessories should protrude from the car body. So in a way they are already banned or to put it more accurately - unroadworthy. Only bullbars that offered as part of the vehicle design (bullbar becomes part of the original car body) are roadworthy.
    Please correct me if I am wrong.
    This also applies to tow bars and fatter tyres that extend past the car body. I do know people who have been fined not removing the towbar when not towing a trailer. This was a decade ago so maybe things have changed?

    One issue that the public is the delusion that bullbars protect you in a vehicle to vehicle accident. From what I have read anything above 5-15kms they do nothing and can infact make the accident worse.

    Both 4WDs and bullbars are useful devices but inappropriate in an urban environment.

    Why not go off postcode and/or club registrations, work status? If you live in a country environment, work as a farmer or primary producer then no registration penalty. If you live in the city and drive an off road vehicle on the road you then have a levy paid at registration. And make the bullbar allowed on 4wds. Not sure how you could capture the ute.

    I dont know if this would work. I see people buying 4wd drives that cost more to buy, bigger on the outside and same size on the inside, go slower, stop slower, turn slower and drink more than twice the fuel than my car. So money isnt an issue for looks.
    All this for fashion, with the bullbar as a glittering ear ring to match.
    I guess that is why Mitsubshi called one their 4wds "Pajero".

  19. #19
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F3C2E2E2A3C245D0 link=1296285737/17#17 date=1296429341
    It is my understanding that Australian design rule state that no accessories should protrude from the car body. So in a way they are already banned or to put it more accurately - unroadworthy. Only bullbars that offered as part of the vehicle design (bullbar becomes part of the original car body) are roadworthy.
    Please correct me if I am wrong.
    This also applies to tow bars and fatter tyres that extend past the car body. I do know people who have been fined not removing the towbar when not towing a trailer. This was a decade ago so maybe things have changed?

    One issue that the public is the delusion that bullbars protect you in a vehicle to vehicle accident. From what I have read anything above 5-15kms they do nothing and can infact make the accident worse.

    Both 4WDs and bullbars are useful devices but inappropriate in an urban environment.

    Why not go off postcode and/or club registrations, work status? If you live in a country environment, work as a farmer or primary producer then no registration penalty. If you live in the city and drive an off road vehicle on the road you then have a levy paid at registration. And make the bullbar allowed on 4wds. Not sure how you could capture the ute.

    I dont know if this would work. I see people buying 4wd drives that cost more to buy, bigger on the outside and same size on the inside, go slower, stop slower, turn slower and drink more than twice the fuel than my car. So money isnt an issue for looks.
    All this for fashion, with the bullbar as a glittering ear ring to match.
    I guess that is why Mitsubshi called one their 4wds "Pajero".
    Pajero: oh how the Spanish must have laughed ;D

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    It appears that we have a lot of suburban nannies on here. People complain that 4wders are pushy and force their way through traffic. RUBBISH. I have seen many more people in little hyundai getzs and toyota ecchos etc cutting people off and pushing their way around. Thing is people remember when a 4wd cuts them off.

    4wd now days dont take longer to stop and they certainly dont accelerate slower either. People complain visibility is poor but I learnt to drive in an 80 series landcruiser and the visibility was excellent. Rear visibility was reduced a bit but certainly no worse than a commodore sedan and definately no worse than a sedan with a spoiler on the back. Dont hear complaints about spoilers do we? As for drinking more fuel the average diesel 4wd uses the same as a commodore v6 while carrying more passengers and being much more roomy. My parents v8 landcruiser on gas costs the same as my corolla to run.

    Since when do people need to go offroad to need a bullbar anyway. My dad hit a kangaroo 15km from Perths CBD. My sister lives 20km from the CBD and the person living with her cant get insurance because of kangaroos. You dont need to scratch or mess up your vehicle by offroading either and if you do generally a good coat or two of polish sorts out the scratches anyway.

    The funniest thing is it seems funny that people always loved volvos because they were the safest cars around. The were safe because they were heavy and strong. It seems the same characteristics on a 4wd make them the unsafest car on the road. What gives.

  21. #21
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 76494F485552637E534550593C0 link=1296285737/19#19 date=1296522082
    It appears that we have a lot of suburban nannies on here.
    There are a lot of holes in your argument Justin.

    1.
    People complain that 4wders are pushy and force their way through traffic. *RUBBISH. *I have seen many more people in little hyundai getzs and toyota ecchos etc cutting people off
    There is a greater proportion of bad drivers in small cars compared to 4WD but that is merely because there is a greater proportion of small cars. This argument doesnt justify the need to drive large 4WDs exclusively in an urban environment.

    2.
    4wd now days dont take longer to stop and they certainly dont accelerate slower either.
    Compared to what?

    3.
    Dont hear complaints about spoilers do we?
    I didnt see any arguments against bullbars from an obstruction of visibility aspect . But *spoilers are cosmetic, not necessary in an urban environment but not likely to cause the same amount of damage to other cars and pedestrians for that matter.

    3.
    the average diesel 4wd uses the same as a commodore v6
    Yes, but how many 4WDs in use on urban streets are running on diesel or gas?

    4.
    My dad hit a kangaroo 15km from Perths CBD.
    Bullbars dont guarantee you wont hit any sort of animal on urban streets. 4WDS were intended for rural transport where you are much more lilely to encounter wildlife and the bullbar limits damage to the front of the vehicle in a collision.

    5.
    people always loved volvos because they were the safest cars around. *The were safe because they were heavy and strong.
    No, people loved Volvos as they were marketed as safe before other car manufacturers were required to comply with safety standards. They were heavy because of the extra steel required to strengthen the frame. And for the record, there are a lot of people who hate Volvos. A motorcycle riding mate used to prominently display his "Volvo aware rider" sticker.

  22. #22
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 5152404044524A330 link=1296285737/17#17 date=1296429341
    I see people buying 4wd drives that cost more to buy, bigger on the outside and same size on the inside, go slower, stop slower, turn slower and drink more than twice the fuel than my car.

    How is the type of vehicle you drive relevant to me? For all we know you drive an MX5, thats hardly suitable as a single vehicle for a family.

    I own and drive a Toyota Hilux 4x4 every day. Although to be honest when I drive it in the city it is only being driven through the rear wheels so it shouldnt be classed as a "4WD in the city" correct?

    As for Four wheel drives being "huge", get your tape measure out. You will find that a commodore or falcon is longer and wider than most four wheel drives.

    But then this discussion isnt about four wheel drives, it is a bout bullbars and there are plenty of two wheel drive vehicles out there with them. In some parts of the country hitting a roo without one could mean death. A truck driver recently died when his truck broke down and he died from heat and dehydration before he could get help. Hitting a roo without a bullbar is more likely to make your car un-driveable, which in turn could lead to death.

    LIke the stats say, less than 10% of pedestrian deaths by vehicles involved a vehicle with a bullbar. Whilst it is regrettable that these people died, the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction.

  23. #23
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Who cares if someone has a 4WD and doesnt go off-road? Whats the big-deal? (no, i dont have one).
    Who cares if a vehicle has a roo-bar?
    Our roads are full of trucks, mostly with roo-bars. Most trucks are bigger than vehicles with roo-bars. Who cares?

    We should limit 4WDs to country people only??? Why?
    My brother has a 4WD so he can carry his family all at once (6 of them - its a 7-seater). He lives in the city.
    Should he be forced to sell this and buy two sedans just to take his family out?
    Maybe he doesnt like the available people-movers.
    Maybe he is planning to go camping next school holidays.

    Who really cares.

    If you want a 4WD, go get one. If you wanna drive it in the city, do so.
    If you prefer bikes, go get one.
    Stop worrying about others having a nice clean 4WD with a big a$$ roo-bar and move on with life.

  24. #24
    A_M
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Ok Guys / Gals ... EMOTIONAL issue for all. * (edit as I did not want to discriminate)

    Chill time *;)

    As a long time 4x4 user and current owner I have my own take...


    Just like coffee and PBFAG; The real issue at the end of the day, as you have all identified, is the PBTSW (Person Behind the Steering wheel).

    It can be also like Banning Glasses in Pubs and Night Clubs, Mobile phones while driving, DUI and Knives and Guns and if one was to ask me... The Internet.... *So many I know should never be given access.

    It is not the product it is the PERSON using the said product.

    However laws need to be thought through with real data and evidence. Rather than a knee jerk reaction as it means little and can often not be implemented and or managed. *

    Mobile phones while driving is a typical example and causes much more damage than Bull Bars but the issue is that EVERY one thinks they are EXEMPT...

    The issue is the USER, not the product.





  25. #25
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 6761767D6760787A130 link=1296285737/21#21 date=1296525302
    LIke the stats say, less than 10% of pedestrian deaths by vehicles involved a vehicle with a bullbar.
    This is not an argument in favour of bullbars as it reflects the fact that there are only a small number of cars with bullbars.

    What if there is, say, 2% of vehicles with bull bars causing 10% of accidents? Hypothetical maybe but Im saying you need to be careful quoting stats to back up your arguments.

    I agree that this thread should be closed as it was always destined to become heated.

    We have a lot more to fear on the roads from DUI drivers or hoonish P-platers than vehicles with bullbars.

  26. #26
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D5B4C475D5A4240290 link=1296285737/21#21 date=1296525302
    Quote Originally Posted by 5152404044524A330 link=1296285737/17#17 date=1296429341
    I see people buying 4wd drives that cost more to buy, bigger on the outside and same size on the inside, go slower, stop slower, turn slower and drink more than twice the fuel than my car.
    How is the type of vehicle you drive relevant to me? For all we know you drive an MX5, thats hardly suitable as a single vehicle for a family.
    I was trying to make a point that imposing a financial impose may not work.
    The comment came as someone at work has a Prado which set them back $50,000. It is diesel and burns 14l/100kms in the city and 9.5 country.
    My car is a pug wagon (diesel). $34,000 new. Burns 6l/100km city and 4.7 country. I was a bit shocked when I jumped into the Prado. The interior was only about 3cm wider and 3cm longer. The boot was about the same size.
    So what was the point? The only one was fashion - to look a certain way. Anyway, it is their waste of money.

    I think people are getting emotional as they see some using the wrong product for the wrong reason which put them at a very very small increased risk of injury/death (which can be lessened by different driving) and others getting emotional as they see it as an attack on their freedom.

    Wasnt this thread about bullbars? Where the government is thinking about adopting European regulations that as a by product bans bullbars on new vehicles?

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    We have a lot more to fear on the roads from DUI drivers or hoonish P-platers than vehicles with bullbars.
    what if the hoonish, DUI, p-plater- has a bullbar? :-/

    There is no doubt that in many rural settings a bull bar is a must: I know on Kangaroo Island if the locals were not able to use them they may as well give up traveling between sunset and sunrise. Any attempt to take them away would likely end in armed insurrection...

    On the other hand 4wds now kill more kids than swimming pools. Living on the same (suburban) street as a primary school- and seeing all the massive 4wds there every day... blocking visibility... something should be done.

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D6E7C7C786E760F0 link=1296285737/25#25 date=1296528891
    Wasnt this thread about bullbars? Where the government is thinking about adopting European regulations that as a by product bans bullbars on new vehicles?
    Quote Originally Posted by 7C607D7D6A617B66616E6C6069696A6A0F0 link=1296285737/26#26 date=1296529684
    On the other hand 4wds now kill more kids than swimming pools. Living on the same (suburban) street as a primary school- and seeing all the massive 4wds there every day... blocking visibility... something should be done.
    Maybe we should start a new thread?
    "Some CSs want to ban 4wds" ;D

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    My last post was off topic a lot as a lot of the posts are and were likely to be but getting back on topic I recall hearing some information on bullbars and why they are dangerous to pedestrians. A lot of you are assuming that it is because they are so Rigid and hard with no give doing lots of damage. Im pretty sure the front of a car is big enough and hard enough to kill someone already. The biggest problem as I understood is that when hit the pedestrian was pushed forward and down in front of the car. In a car without a bull bar the pedestrian is more likely to be pushed up over the bonnet and have a better chance of survival. Look at modern mass produced bull bars that are factory or aftermarket and the shape has changed a lot from 20 years ago so they arent near as bad as they used to be. Of course they are also more likely to send a roo over the bonnet and through the windscreen rather than to the ground thereby reducing their effectiveness for their intended use.

    You can make all the changes you want but there will be people from both crowds who judge without any thought or logic.

    I guess families could sell the 4bys and buy people movers with less than perfect safety ratings. Front on collision its likely that the driver and front passengers will have their legs crushed as there is little protection in front of them.

    As a pedestrian I dont care if a car has a soft front end made out of bunny rabbits or a nasty front end made out of knives and daggers. I dont step out in front of cars. I dont get drunk and stumble down the road where I am likely to step out in front of cars. I wonder if we looked at the stats, if it would show there was a greater occurence of fatalities where the pedestrian was intoxicated. Perhaps we should ban alchohol across the board of have designated areas to drink where we were only allowed to leave when below a certain level.

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 212B3E2929263234470 link=1296285737/20#20 date=1296524538
    the average diesel 4wd uses the same as a commodore v6

    Yes, but how many 4WDs in use on urban streets are running on diesel or gas?
    In WA at least 50%.

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 23293C2B2B243036450 link=1296285737/20#20 date=1296524538
    No, people loved Volvos as they were marketed as safe before other car manufacturers were required to comply with safety standards. They were heavy because of the extra steel required to strengthen the frame. And for the record, there are a lot of people who hate Volvos. A motorcycle riding mate used to prominently display his "Volvo aware rider" sticker.
    Funny that. I had a lecturer that only drove volvos. She believed they were the safest cars in the world because everyone kept their distance from her ;D

  32. #32
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    I feel a need to interject here.

    The main reason cited for pedestrians fatalities is because the driver did not see them till it was too late.

    Many pedestrian fatalities occur at pedestrian crossings.

    It is a drivers responsibility to avoid pedestrians - yes, even the drunk ones.

    Id be surprised if any motor vehicle is designed with pedestrian or passenger safety as the primary consideration. Maybe drivers need to remember the weight of their responsibility, whether the vehilce has a bull bar or not?


  33. #33
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 637F6262757E64797E71737F76767575100 link=1296285737/26#26 date=1296529684
    what if the hoonish, DUI, p-plater- has a bullbar?
    Gees, now youre muddying the issue. It sounds like the answer is to retire to the swimming pool and stay off the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A656364797E4F527F697C75100 link=1296285737/30#30 date=1296532748
    everyone kept their distance from her
    ;D Like the other legendary hat driver or ladies in bowling outfits.

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Gees, now youre muddying the issue. It sounds like the answer is to retire to the swimming pool and stay off the road.
    sounds great to me- especially today and yesterday- it is scorching down here in SA... If I had the money: I would definitely buy a pool before a 4wd...

    This thread reminded me of a coronial inquest a few years back:

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/coroner-urges-curbs-on-4wd-drivers/2005/05/17/1116095948185.html

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 78595252554F3C0 link=1296285737/31#31 date=1296533130
    The main reason cited for pedestrians fatalities is because the driver did not see them till it was too late.

    I would struggle to take that as fact. Im pretty sure that is what the person that was on a mobile phone says along with the person changing cds or tending to the kids in the back seat. Oops I didnt notice it has to be the number one "reason" doesnt it.

    Valid points and Im sure you wont disagree but bring back common sense.

  36. #36
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    But ya can not have a Pool unless you have a Child proof fence *;D

    So none of you fellers *would be able to get in without ADULT supervision *;D

    As I stated previously and Den agreed..

    It is the USER not the product !!!!

    Besides I hate Tow bars and bike racks even more... Ya have any idea the number of times I have kicked shines OR Bashed Bike racks when trying to be squeezable between cars in shopping centres. *They are Front and Rear NUDGE bars for a reason. *

    USER FUNCTIONALITY. *Nothing to do with the CAR!



    PS.

    The Best bull bar has rounded sides and shaped like a Grader blade and rises higher than the bonnet and just clears the road (Spoiler - Dual function)... *

    Called a PEOPLE Catcher for a reason. *It protects the car / 4x4 /AWD from damage by slow dimwitted pedestrian and as for those that cross at Crossing and expect one to stop on a DIME - Say no more.


    EDIT:

    The story was in a Comic strip that featured the Ettamogah Pub Mob !!! *If my memory is correct, *the Truck driver also had spotlights with 3 switch settings... *One whitch was MELT road at 10 mile *:D




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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Ok children *;D

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_comment.aspx

    "The Australian Government is examining the case for regulating the pedestrian safety performance of light passenger vehicles and light commercial vehicles through the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) for Motor Vehicles and Trailers. *The ADRs are national standards under the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 and apply to all new vehicles. *By requiring the fronts of vehicles to be more energy absorbing, an ADR for pedestrian safety would reduce the risk of fatalities and injuries to vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists in collisions with vehicles. *Currently, Australia has no ADR for pedestrian safety.

    The issues are discussed in a Regulation Impact Statement (RIS). *The RIS is part of Australian Government’s process to assess the appropriateness of government regulatory action, the most effective form of government intervention, the relative social costs and benefits and who in the community will gain the benefits or incur the costs of any regulation.

    The RIS found that there was a case for regulation of the pedestrian safety performance of light passenger vehicles and light commercial vehicles through the ADRs. *The RIS recommends the adoption of an ADR based on Global Technical Regulation (GTR) No. 9, Pedestrian Safety, which is an international standard established by the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE). *The GTR is included in the public comment package.

    Compliance with pedestrian safety requirements would in all certainty be affected by the practice of fitting aftermarket Vehicle Front Protection Systems (VFPS) (known as “bull bars”) to vehicles.

    In order to maintain the pedestrian safety performance of the vehicle, the RIS recommends that the fitting of VFPS to new vehicles be accommodated through the ADRs by the adoption of European Union Regulation EC 78/2009 (based on the earlier Directive 2005/66/EC) or Australian Standard AS 4876.1, depending on vehicle type. There is no proposal to ban bull bars.

    The following is a quick summary of the proposed requirements for vehicles and VFPS (bull bars)" - See attached PDF.

    Look like this (if implemented) will only effect new cars. Some vehicles are exempt - 4wd and flat front (vans).


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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    With the whole city driving and kangaroos, where I live is technically metropolitan Adelaide. I have to drive to University to study, whilst only 20km away, any night which I finish around dusk I will see kangaroos on 100km/h roads. In the last year I have only had one kangaroo silly enough to jump in front of the car. Being aware and watching for it I had slowed down doing about 50km/h and missed it by a couple of inches.
    The whole commute is within metropolitan Adelaide, yet kangaroos are common should I not be allowed to protect my car with a roo bar if I want even though I live in the "city".

    Also I do not have a 4wd or a bullbar on my camry.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 66494042556A46494640424A424953270 link=1296285737/35#35 date=1296537387
    As I stated previously and Den agreed..
    DOH!!! I think thats twice now! ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by 4546545450465E270 link=1296285737/36#36 date=1296539248
    Ok children ....
    Spoken like a true parent. :P

  40. #40
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 243825253239233E3936343831313232570 link=1296285737/26#26 date=1296529684
    Living on the same (suburban) street as a primary school- and seeing all the massive 4wds there every day... blocking visibility... something should be done.

    Are you suggesting people should drive vans and people movers instead?

    How would that solve the visibility problem?

    again, this is a thread about bullbars not 4 wheel drives ;)

  41. #41
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 3E382F243E3921234A0 link=1296285737/39#39 date=1296542668
    again, this is a thread about bullbars not 4 wheel drives
    Then why do you ask questions that are unrelated?

    See? We all deviate from time to time.

  42. #42
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    It seems to me the obvious answer is crash resistant clothing for pedestrians.

    How about making motorcycle clothing type armour compulsory if you walk on or cross public roads?

    Greg

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Motorcycle armour...
    How about this?


  44. #44
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Thankfully, someone has seen sense in the banning of bullbars and theyre now off the agenda for the time being. Until the next lobby group raises the issue of course... ::)

    http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/ck/releases/2011/February/CK006_2011.htm

    I have been watching this one with interest as I do live in rural remote Australia. Whilst Ive been fortunate to have very little animal strikes in my Chevrolet pickup, I think because its so loud compared to my Hilux that seems to collect birds on the front of it, which although it is a diesel its a lot quieter and so has hence coined the nickname of Striker... ;D Maybe there is something in that for the pedestrian issue?

  45. #45
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    You dont need bullbars on a Hilux there Scoota Gal. Just ask the Top Gear crew! ;D ;D ;D


    Java "3....2....1....DETONATE!!!" phile

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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    You swim in the ocean, you get eaten by sharks. You walk on the road. you get hit by cars. The trouble is, the ocean diesnt have striped swimming zones in which sharks must not eat you, although there would be the odd white pointer which would either ignore or simply be oblivious to the stripes and take a bite out of your a**e anyways. The there are those sharks who simply go about their business, swimming around with no consideration for swimmers and randomlly chewing bums.

  47. #47
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    I live in a rural city and quite often go off road. On my first 2 4WDs I had bull bars which I mainly used for pushing through scrub not predestrians. I now own a RAV 6 which I use like a Nissan Patrol (which I used to own) It has a nudge bar but for some reason the RAV is covered in scratches from scrub.

    The vehicle isnt the problem nor is the bull bar it is the driver and in some cases the pedestrians who dont look before entering the road.

    So should we ban IPODs and Mobile phones for the distraction they cause to pedestrians I SAY YES ;D ;D

  48. #48
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    When Bob Brown and Julia are finished with the Carbon Tax you wont be able to afford to drive. Unless of course you have a Commonwealth supplied car and never have to put your hand in your pocket.

    Problem solved. >:( :(

  49. #49
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F3534382D31590 link=1296285737/47#47 date=1298802210
    When Bob Brown and Julia are finished with the Carbon Tax you wont be able to afford to drive
    I think its best if, like religion, we leave the political opinion out the forum. Not everyone shares your view and many of us would prefer not to give humans the benefit of the doubt on the question of anthropogenic climate change.

  50. #50
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    Re: Government wants to ban Bullbars

    When petrol runs out- then we wont be able to afford to drive. And when the ocean levels rise we wont be able to live on the beachfront either.

    And when our kids ask why we didnt do anything about it all sooner.... we wont be able to answer.




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