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Thread: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

  1. #1
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Im currently hunting for some new stereo speakers and the local reviews of the local (Melbourne) speaker manufacturer SGR Audio have really stirred up my interest.

    Has anyone here heard them, or of the company?

    BTW--They offered to pick me up at the airport, take me to their home for a demo, feed me, wine me, deliver me back to the airport, and... if I purchase, to refund my air fare!!!!

    Greg

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    I just looked at their webpage, and given the prices theyre asking, Im not surprised.

    My car cost less! :D

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Because of this page alone: http://sgraudio.com.au/products/power_cables/tb_cable.html
    I wouldnt touch them.

    Im sure they make good speakers, dont get me wrong, but it sounds like its 10% speaker cost, 10% buttering up customer cost, 10% marketing cost, 70% profit.

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 77686A70697C6B6A7D050 link=1301384923/2#2 date=1301385848
    but it sounds like its 10% speaker cost, 10% buttering up customer cost, 10% marketing cost, 70% profit.
    Pretty much standard pricing model for almost anything I would have thought ::)

    They get good reviews but out of my price range :(

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Well....

    If youve got the money to [s]waste[/s] spend on the products listed there, go for it. Mind you, nothing is worth that sort of money; unless you associate the word Audiophile with Ridiculous.... ::)

    Mal.

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    A little late now but OMaras once auctioned off an upmarket Hi-Fi shop when the owner retired.
    Some very high quality stuff went for ridiculously cheap bids.

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Depends what you value I guess. The power cables mentioned above are expensive but are offered as they perform at about the level of ones costing maybe 2-3x the amount.

    SGR make fantastic speakers which are active, meaning that they come with amps. Good amplification can be a huge cost so this alone will save you.

    Having heard these speakers, I picked them over speakers and amps costing over 5x the amount.

    Either way at this price point, you owe it to yourself to audition as many speakers as you can. All I can say is that the SGR family are genuinely good people with incredible passion and detail for what they do.

    For an in-depth review by one of the guys at Stereo Net Australia, refer to this link: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/show...Speaker-Review

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Im sorry - but shielded power cables??? - OK the lead between the plug and appliance may be shielded, but what about the wiring in your walls and ceiling?* What do you mean by perform.* What difference will you hear??*

  9. #9
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Value for money seems to be totally individual.

    After all, in the past few years Ive spent in excess of $5000.00 just so I can enjoy less than 10 minutes a day drinking good coffee! :D

    My last speakers/amplifier averaged out at less than $2 a day, and they were seen as ridiculously expensive by nearly everyone. Given that, I spend way more than 10 minutes a day listening to good music.* :)

    Thanks chokobo, in my conversations with SGR the passion certainly comes through. Ive been auditioning speakers, off and on, for more than 45 years, and the reviews I have read on Stereo Net and elsewhere certainly indicate to me that a listen would be worthwhile.

    Its nice to know that a fellow coffee snob agrees.

    Greg

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Greg, I didnt want to infer that you were wasting your money. If the coin was spare, Id love to drop a decent whack on a dedicated music setup.

    What sort of good music do you spend your time listening to? And what format does your music come in? CD, vinyl, USB?

  11. #11
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 232C2036242323410 link=1301384923/9#9 date=1301444643
    Greg, I didnt want to infer that you were wasting your money. If the coin was spare, Id love to drop a decent whack on a dedicated music setup.

    What sort of good music do you spend your time listening to? And what format does your music come in? CD, vinyl, USB?
    Hi Big Louie,

    No offence taken Big Louie, from any of the comments so far. Most people I know (except the other *nuts* here of course) think that anything beyond a spoon and a jar of instant is wasting money on coffee!

    As far as music goes I listen to almost anything except opera and some classical, and some of the less musical modern stuff.

    I grew up with rock and roll and still have my first LP. I added jazz to the rock, branched out into folk, blues, and some alternative. My most recent trend has been in the area of "adult oriented music"--some by new artists, some by musicians at or beyond retirement age; and filling out my collection of records by artists I already know. Try "Worrisome Heart" by Melody Gardot for some lovely jazz vocals, or Fiona Apples "Tidal". Im currently playing "Nicks Bump" by Ben Sidran, and "Red Octopus" by Jefferson Starship.

    As far as sources go--LP, CD, and FLAC streamed via an Airport Express to the music systems DAC. Some of the very high bit rate mp3 is just listenable, but I much prefer lossless, and LP would be my favourite.

    Greg

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    thats true about the shielded power cables. if you wanted perfect sine waves then you would buy a power regenerator. the point is that there are often noisy and bad quality cables which emit RFI and all that junk which can have an adverse effect on your gear. the improvements with any kind of cable, to me anyway, is that it doesnt improve the sound, but it does the least damage to a perfect signal. what you would hear is possibly more air, separation and bass definition compared to a noisy unshielded cable. i believe that is congruent with SGRs philosophy - they wont recommend any extremely expensive cables, you just need the minimum good quality one which is going to do its job. either way, most good audio companies should allow you to borrow the cables for some time and from there you can decide if there is a perceivable difference.

    totally agree with your comments Greg re time spent listening to music and drinking/making coffee. haha the best is when you can listen to good music while drinking your coffee, or a good wine or single malt. what DAC do you use Greg? only problem with upgrading speakers to ones the calibre of SGRs is that they are extremely revealing so they do deserve a good source. rubbish in, rubbish out! its a little like the importance of a grinder ;D


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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    This link seems to be someone who knows what they are talking about.

    http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Greg, Ive got a reasonable theatre setup, but when setting up for audio only do you just have the two main speakers? Or is there a need for surround, centres and subs?

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Steve, agreed that the Empirical Audio guys know what they are talking about. Makes you wonder why they offer this: http://www.empiricalaudio.com/cables/power-cables

    At the end of the day, every system is different and everyones ears are different too. If after a trial, you think you can pick a difference then by all means they add value to you. Others though just like.. the bling ;D

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Good cable admittedly, but is it in fact shielded* or is it just a low inductance, low impedance cable?* America has problems as the mains voltage is only a nominal 110 volt, which makes it very difficult to run high power amps - half our voltage so they would require four times the current an Australian amp would for the same power out - consequently massive power leads would be essential to minimise voltage drop and one might be justified in spending extra on a power cable, but what are you actually getting for your $1000 US a gold plated plug and socket (no arguments there) and obviously some seriously heavy duty cable (good), however at around $1000 US certainly horribly overpriced but a source of terrific profit for the manufacturer and dealer, if they can convince enough people that they need to pay that much for something that could be achieved for a few tens of dollars!

    In Australia, I cant believe multi hundred power lead would make any difference to a good amplifier (i.e. one with a well designed power supply).

    Anyway, perhaps we should leave it there this is all about coffee, after all - I will never convince you and you will never convince me.* I just dont want people thinking that everyone needs to spend hundreds and thousands on audio equipment to enjoy good quality sound.


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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    I dont like crossovers

    I dont like thousands of watts per channel

    Give me a high sensitivity speaker and a handful of watts out of a tube amp and I am happy

    I build my own speakers
    KK

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Agreed especially on the point that you dont need to spend lots of money to obtain good sound quality.

    For those who want to read 92 pages of hoopla about power cords though look at the arguments from Aussies on DTVForum: http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=92538 :-X

    I think a main point though is that an entire system is only as good as its weakest link. just make sure to put away enough for decent (not overtly expensive) cables and all should be good to go.

    One thing which is really overlooked is speaker positioning which is a free tweak, but it can make a big big difference.

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Koffee Kosmo - those were the days, we thought theyd never end.* I remember the days when excellent valve amps were cheap (Leak, Quad etc) and then the new fangled transistor amps came in and ruined it all!* Days when an 8" speaker was rated at around 5 watts and it was all about efficient speaker enclosures and getting and getting a good bass response without resorting to juke box bass* where every bass note was the same frequency!

    Ah yes, I remember it well (I think)!

    :(

  20. #20
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 77504152416C101C240 link=1301384923/18#18 date=1301463689
    Koffee Kosmo - those were the days, we thought theyd never end.* I remember the days when excellent valve amps were cheap (Leak, Quad etc) and then the new fangled transistor amps came in and ruined it all!* Days when an 8" speaker was rated at around ten watts and it was all about efficient speaker enclosures and getting and getting a good bass response without resorting to juke box bass* where every bass note was the same frequency!

    Ah yes, I remember it well (I think)!

    :(
    I still experience those days Steve

    My set up is as I noted in my post (in disguise)
    100+ db sensitivity speakers
    Tube Amp

    KK

  21. #21
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A55594F5D5A5A380 link=1301384923/13#13 date=1301457574
    Greg, Ive got a reasonable theatre setup, but when setting up for audio only do you just have the two main speakers? Or is there a need for surround, centres and subs?
    Just the two main speakers. Ive tried surround sound for hi-fi music, but unless you have similar quality speakers at the rear (and often for only 10% of the sound volume) it seems to detract. I suspect most non-theatre music is actually produced for stereo.

    The TV is in another room, and I actually watch most video on my computer--24 inch full Hi-Def screen. Both unused speakers in the same room, and a TV between the front speakers can deteriorate the sound.

    Since the speakers Ill be auditioning are (basically) flat to 28 Hz. I think a sub for music would be unnecessary.

    My current speakers are down 3db at 60 Hz., so even the lowest notes on a bass fiddle or bass guitar are severely restricted.

    Greg

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 193D343437370D193D213F3D520 link=1301384923/19#19 date=1301463982
    I still experience those days Steve

    My set up is as I noted in my post (in disguise)
    100+ db sensitivity speakers
    Tube Amp

    KK

    KK I will be away from computers for a week (oh bliss, oh rapture), but would love to have a chin wag with you about the finer things in life (i.e. the place for vacuum tubes in espresso machines and hifi and bass reflex versus infinite baffle and loaded horn speakers).

    If you are agreeable I will PM you when I get back, I think discussion on class A, push-pull, ultra linear and, heaven forbid, grain orientated transformers might not be too welcome here - let alone negative feedback -* essential in valve power* amps! ;)

  23. #23
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B3C2D3E2D007C70480 link=1301384923/21#21 date=1301473712
    KK I will be away from computers for a week (oh bliss, oh rapture), but would love to have a chin wag with you about the finer things in life (i.e. the place for vacuum tubes in espresso machines and hifi and bass reflex versus infinite baffle and loaded horn speakers).

    If you are agreeable I will PM you when I get back, I think discussion on class A, push-pull, ultra linear and, heaven forbid, grain orientated transformers might not be too welcome here - let alone negative feedback - essential in valve power amps! Wink

    I am up for a chinwag
    PM me when you get back and we can trade email addresses
    We can also expand our discussions into vinyl rigs & DACs as well

    KK

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 72565F5F5C5C6672564A5456390 link=1301384923/22#22 date=1301477640
    PM me when you get back
    Will do :)

  25. #25
    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Greg,

    Im also with the two speaker class.
    A live performance utilizes a stage in front of an audience, so a good pair of speakers will faithfully transmit a sound stage in a way that the speakers "disappear".

    Those who watch movies rely on effects speakers to transmit sound effects from passing helicopters and gunshots etc.

    Power line filters, well shielded interconnects and speaker cables together with well designed and engineered components all contribute to preserving the sound stage. The least interference to the signal path, the better the sound.

    You can spend $10,000 on a modest sound system or $250,000 on a extravagant superbly engineered pre and power amp, turntable and pair of loudpeakers.
    When you are in cloud nine over the sound and you can listen to it in toe tapping fatigue free for hours, that is the system for you.

    Some of them here have already given you their opinion of SGR.

    Speaking as an audiophile, if SGR can put together a system you are totally happy with, and it produces a sound that rivals systems that costs many more, then i say go for it.
    I like the fact you mentioned their loudpeakers are made locally, which means the value should be good.

    There are also some very very good loudspeaker manufactures in SA Greg, and you should not discount them.

    Gary at G


  26. #26
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Some wonderful audio tweaks to be found here.... ::)
    http://www.ilikejam.org/blog/audio/audiophile.html

    Of course, none of this has any actual basis on genuine engineering principles and physics - More to do with the gullibility of people with plenty of money and little or no qualifications in the appropriate disciplines... ;)

    Mal.

  27. #27
    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    That link made me laugh Mal ;D

    "Can you spare $6,820 for a volume control?" This was my favourite one.

    I once was gullible and young enough to buy a set of CD labels that claimed to reduce the resonance of spinning cds, so that was my $59 down the drain for no sound improvement.

    My advice is the same for anyone buying a coffee machine/grinder or amp, player and speakers
    Selecting a good dealer is a good start.
    They should be capable of helping you select components fit for your needs.

    I like the fact that Greg is able to either be taken to audition in the comfort of their home without any pressure, or hes able to audition them at his own home if he wants to.

    Gary at G

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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    SGR speakers are great. Those top of the line ones are hand built here in Australia and has a fair waiting list. Once you see them in the flesh, the build process and the finish, you will understand the asking price.

    Also consider you are getting all the amps, x-overs and pre amp in that asking price.

    I purchased a pair over B&W 802D which i auditioned in home



    definately audition a pair of you get a chance

  29. #29
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Hi-Fi--SGR speakers anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 69737E7F6D7B6369691A0 link=1301384923/24#24 date=1301493021
    There are also some very very good loudspeaker manufactures in SA Greg, and you should not discount them.

    Gary at G
    Thanks Gary,

    Already done that, and no joy.

    While some of their products have great frequency response, none (so far) has been able to match the chills on the back of my neck that a number of my test songs reliably give me.

    I did get these chills from a nice pair of ProAc speakers a couple of years ago, but they were only better than my current Linn speakers in the imaging, and to get there they had to be placed at least 3-4 feet from the wall. That is not something I was happy to do, and I would first have to check that the Linns didnt do as well when placed similarly.*

    The ProAcs also had no more extended bass range than the Linns, at least under the listening conditions, so in the end they were a no-go.

    Im keeping my fingers crossed over the SGRs cause my amp is now over 15 years old and may need the capacitors replaced. With 340,000 uf and all matched for response, this will be expensive! Shipping to FNQ is not cheap either.

    Greg



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