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Thread: We hate PooPal

  1. #1
    TC
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    We hate PooPal

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    From our WTF files:

    Yesterday we received a cease and desist notice from PooPal. Why? Because we had listed a Cuban Single origin coffee for sale in our online shop. This was Andy's Cuban Turquino from November BeanBay. A customer purchased some and had his payment reversed by big brother. We renamed it T u r q u i n o and relisted it. The customer repurchased it.

    Today they closed us down and at this stage are refusing access to the $250 sitting in our PayPal account as well. Thieves.

    Since when did Australia have an embargo with Cuba? Last time I looked, I could have purchased a cigar if I wanted one.

  2. #2
    Senior Member brokenvase's Avatar
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    We hate PooPal

    They did that to me last year when I ran an online auction site. They are bullies. But they are the easiest to set up and for users to use. Like the cheap china cars. Good when it works useless when there is a hint of problems...

    Better off with another local bank merchant.

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    Wow. What was the reason? Is Turquino a trademark or something?

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    Poopal enforces US foreign policy. Doesn't matter where you live or even if you aren't on the US version of the site, if you infringe the country list maintained by the US Dept (of State I think) they will do this. You're lucky you got a warning - thers have simply had their account frozen and had to enquire to find out why they can't trade.

    Look up bitcoin and see if that appeals. There have been other online transaction sites but I don't know their status now.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamburglar View Post
    Wow. What was the reason? Is Turquino a trademark or something?
    The US has a trade embargo against Cuba United States embargo against Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia you cant legally buy anything originating from Cuba in the US,of course if you visit Florida you wont find it very difficult to buy Cuban cigars.
    Paypal is a US company and by law cannot facilitate transactions involving products of Cuban origin.
    Poor old Chris just got caught up in the politics of the situation.
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    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Who'd a thunk it!
    I'm gobsmacked.
    What hypocrisy given the ready availability of Cuban cigars and rum in the US.

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    As you're trading in Australia, surely only Australian law applies? Have you phoned them? If they are operating in Australia they shouldn't be enforcing US trading laws. Why not take them to task through Vcat or whoever the local authority is. If they don't want to comply with local laws them maybe they have to stop operating here?

    Having said that they have twice saved my butt on purchases through EvilBay. Once was securing a $200 partial refund on a used coffee machine/grinder package which had misleading and false information in the ad. The seller didn't want to know until PayPal intervened. Can't fault their performance as a buyer, personally.

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    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
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    They're not so nice to vendors. Often the vendor gets the transaction reversed on him AND the buyer keeps the goods. From the increasing reports of this I think it is becoming a standard scam by some buyers - set up an account with ebay/poopal, buy what they want then complain - rarely are they asked to return the goods or even prove their case, poopal just finds it simpler to penalise the vendor and often the vendor can't even offer their side of things and get a response.

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    We hate PooPal

    I'm sure it sucks, but it's the law.

    PayPal are a company with a presence in the US so they have to abide by US law. That law prohibits them dealing with Cuba.

    Now it's entirely possible that someone at PayPal was a little over zealous in interpreting that law, but there's no question of them acting outside their jurisdiction, laws often have global applicability.

    Indeed there are several Australian laws which have global jurisdiction and any Australian company operating in overseas markets has to apply those Australian laws to their overseas subsidiaries, so what the US is doing is nothing that we don't do here.

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    PayPal will find any excuse they can to freeze funds. Unfortunately e-commerce in Australia is so behind the US that PayPal often end up being the best of a bad bunch.

    Here's a coffee guy in the UK who just had the same thing happen.

  11. #11
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    I think it's likely that it was a screw up. I can't believe that Andy wouldn't have sold some via PayPal as well?

    FWIW, I don't have to search too hard to find a site which will cell me Cuban cigars and let me use PayPal to settle my account.

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    As you're trading in Australia, surely only Australian law applies? Have you phoned them? If they are operating in Australia they shouldn't be enforcing US trading laws. Why not take them to task through Vcat or whoever the local authority is. If they don't want to comply with local laws them maybe they have to stop operating here?
    They have their policies and it's up to the users who accept their terms and conditions to abide by them.

    It's possible that US law requires them not to facilitate trade with embargoed countries, irrespective of whether either of the buying/selling parties are located within the US.

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    Yes- have phoned.

    They have promised an answer within 24hr....tick tock et al....

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    I avoid paypal like the plauge, and in the majority of cases refuse to buy things from vendors that only offer paypal or use paypal as their credit card processor with no other options.
    Stories like this only reinforce why I continue my personal boycott.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taco View Post
    I avoid paypal like the plauge, and in the majority of cases refuse to buy things from vendors that only offer paypal or use paypal as their credit card processor with no other options.
    Stories like this only reinforce why I continue my personal boycott.
    Personally I find PayPal a useful tool, have never had a problem with them in 10 years of regular use.

    I realise this doesn't help Talk Coffee's situation, hope it's resolved positively for him.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    They're not so nice to vendors. Often the vendor gets the transaction reversed on him AND the buyer keeps the goods. From the increasing reports of this I think it is becoming a standard scam by some buyers - set up an account with ebay/poopal, buy what they want then complain - rarely are they asked to return the goods or even prove their case, poopal just finds it simpler to penalise the vendor and often the vendor can't even offer their side of things and get a response.
    In my case with the coffee machine/grinder issue, I was asked initially to return the goods for a full refund and show proof that I had sent the goods ie. registered and insured receipt.

    I feel for vendors that are trying to do the right thing. From memory I was dealing with with a Filipino call centre which usually puts you behind the eight ball to begin with.

    The only way things will improve for vendors is if people call PayPal out when they are not doing the right thing. A bit of a hassle but alot of buyers like myself swear by PayPal as a safe way to pay for online goods and have some degree of back-up.

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    What happened to Chris is absolutely ridiculous!!! Perhaps it's time to look at an alternative... Paymate is an Aussie sourced payment gateway that offers similar services to PooPal... with the added benefit that all payments received are directly deposited into your nominated bank account.

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    Re: We hate PooPal

    From what I can work out, the op sold the coffee through his own online store. How did paypal work out the coffee was of Cuban origin? Maybe it was through the description supplied to PayPal, and the checkout could be jigged to give paypal less description like '1kg of coffee'?
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  19. #19
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    Received this morning from PayPal:

    I'm taking it to the media and the ACCC. We registered with PayPal Australia and did business in Australia with an Australian client. FWIW, we sold it as T u r q u i n o after receiving the warning.

    Hello Talk Coffee Pty. Ltd.,
    As a US based company PayPal cannot process transactions for goods of Cuban
    origin. You indicated in previous communications as well as on your website
    the coffee was of Cuban origin. We requested you comply with our policies
    and you agreed. Then you relisted the coffee after we told you future
    violations would result in account closure.
    We are very sorry but PayPal is no longer able to have you as a customer.
    While we wish you the best of success in your future business endeavors, we
    respectfully ask that you seek another method of payment for your online
    transactions.
    We have had to close your account for the following reason: you allow
    PayPal as a payment option for goods of Cuban origin
    Various U.S. agencies have sanctions in place that substantially regulate
    or ban trade with particular countries, including but not limited to Cuba,
    Sudan, Iran, Burma and North Korea. Activity within your account is in
    violation of OFAC regulations. As a result of the violation, details of
    your account and the transaction have been reported to OFAC.
    PayPal previously limited your account due to similar activity. In our
    previous email, PayPal stated that further violations would result in the
    closure of your PayPal account.
    For more details about U.S. sanctions regulations, you can visit OFAC's
    website at
    Office of Foreign Assets Control - Sanctions Programs and Information.
    Sincerely,
    PayPal Compliance Department
    Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
    will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
    and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Copyright 1999-2013 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved.
    PayPal Australia Pty Limited ABN 93 111 195 389 (AFSL 304962). Any general
    financial product advice provided in this site has not taken into account
    your objectives, financial situations or needs.
    PPID PP1448
    Last edited by TC; 29th April 2013 at 07:25 AM.

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Wow!!! Wow!!! Wow!!!

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Received this morning from PayPal:

    I'm taking it to the media and the ACCC. We registered with PayPal Australia and did business in Australia with an Australian client. FWIW, we sold it as T u r q u i n o after receiving the warning.

    -snip-
    Talk_Coffee, I like and respect you more than pretty much any other poster on here, so take this from where it's coming from rather than as a jab. What did you expect? They have terms of service to prevent them from being involved in activity that would see them prosecuted. You breached those terms that form part of your contract with PayPal. They reversed the transaction and presumably informed you that you were in breach of their terms of service. You then did exactly the same thing again and made an attempt to lightly obfuscate what you were doing (by which point they would have been monitoring your account to make sure you didn't do just that) so they closed you down and froze your funds, once again in line with their terms of service.

    Does it make sense? Not really, but you can bet that the OFAC won't care and it's not up to PayPal to take that risk so a customer can sell cuban coffee through their service. Their terms were clear, so while it might not be "fair" that they froze your funds, it was something you agreed to and went into with you eyes wide open.

    I'd suggest you let this one go, especially if you've been given access to your funds. I suspect any complaint won't get very far.

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    Make sure PayPal refund you the rest of your money and start using an Australian based payment processor that respects Australian laws and regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    I'd suggest you let this one go, especially if you've been given access to your funds. I suspect any complaint won't get very far.
    They are ignoring all requests to release our funds and have done so for a week. I couldn't give a toss about them, but it's not their money.

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    Senior Member summercrema's Avatar
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    Indeed it is a problem for online businesses, Big Brother expects us to a keep a list of who we cannot do business with ! I avoid going to US period, unless it is a funeral of someone in my family. Years ago when I was selling networking firewalls, one of the conditions was I am not allow to sale any of the firewall products to Middle east, China .. how am I suppose to know, can they track it via serial numbers.

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    We hate PooPal

    Is it possible to reach a compromise with them and agree not to allow payment of Cuban based products using Paypal? Given Paypals linking with evilbay it would be better for you to still have them as a payments option?
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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summercrema View Post
    Indeed it is a problem for online businesses, Big Brother expects us to a keep a list of who we cannot do business with ! I avoid going to US period, unless it is a funeral of someone in my family. Years ago when I was selling networking firewalls, one of the conditions was I am not allow to sale any of the firewall products to Middle east, China .. how am I suppose to know, can they track it via serial numbers.
    ITAR's a b*tch, huh?

    I'd be interested in how much onus they place on the retailer when it comes to virtual goods; non-embargoed payment source and IP address when ordering would probably be enough, but you never know.

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    Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.
    That would be the account which they have just closed? And they have basically confiscated all funds heldd in the account rather than closing it and returning money to your nominated bank account?

    Nice... I wonder if ACA or TT will touch it? I'm tossing up as to whether they'd love to have a go at PP or whether they'd see them as too big to touch?

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashes View Post
    Is it possible to reach a compromise with them and agree not to allow payment of Cuban based products using Paypal? Given Paypals linking with evilbay it would be better for you to still have them as a payments option?
    Australian based Paymate also links with evilbay so PayPal is no longer the only way to go

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    That would be the account which they have just closed? And they have basically confiscated all funds heldd in the account rather than closing it and returning money to your nominated bank account?

    Nice... I wonder if ACA or TT will touch it? I'm tossing up as to whether they'd love to have a go at PP or whether they'd see them as too big to touch?[/I][/I][/I]
    That's the one Journeyman

    We shall see if the media would like to have a go....

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    They are ignoring all requests to release our funds and have done so for a week. I couldn't give a toss about them, but it's not their money.
    Ah, fair goes. Small claims would probably get their attention...

    As for ACA/TT, you'd have to steal more than $250 from me before I considered dirtying myself with them and their sensationalist whoring... yeuch.

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    We hate PooPal

    Firstly, I echo other comments that Chris' contribution to this site is absolutely excellent, and hence my comments are purely friendly:

    An American company tells you quite clearly they can't deal with Cuban goods. You clearly acknowledge what they say and duly attempt to circumvent the rules by altering the description of said goods.

    At a very minimum I would think you have deliberately contravened PP's T&Cs. As you have a contractual arrangement with them, you have broken Australian contract law. In addition, you have quite possibly broken US law, in laundering the proceeds from the sale of contraband goods through a US company. These laws generally have global jurisdiction.

    Sounds like a great opportunity for TT/ACA to distort the facts to make a segment, but in terms of actually breaking the law, I can only see one perpetrator.

    Again, all friendly comments...

  32. #32
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    So I wonder (given that when the customer did actually purchase the cuban he chose to pay by direct transfer) how many thousand dollars of that $30 transaction our friendly American Company could "legally" withhold forever or until it suits them- whichever comes first of course?

    It would be nice to clarify this seeing that they were not even a party in the actual transaction....Good thing I'd emptied out the account a few days earlier or they'd have a whole heap more cash that is not theirs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    So I wonder how many thousand dollars of that $30 transaction our friendly American Company can "legally" withhold forever or until it suits them- whichever comes first of course?
    Yep I can imagine it's terribly frustrating.

    I haven't read PP's T&Cs but if they're like any other large company they'll be full of very restrictive terms which create a very one-sided relationship, such that if there's an issue it's tough luck for the retailer.

    As with any one-sided contract it's always possible to argue its reasonableness in court, contract law has such flexibility, but who's going to try that?

  34. #34
    Senior Member yabba's Avatar
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    OK Flame suit on.....

    Any service has Terms and Conditions. If you want to use the service (like the rules or not) you need to comply. An example is like coffee snobs. I'd like to see some of the rules here changed but that's none of my business, I can like it or leave. The day I break the rules, get warned by Andy and then continue to break them is the day I would expect him to cancel my membership.

    Same with PayPal, They clearly warned Talk Cofee and they tried to override PayPals rules by changing the description. However the name he used is the name of a Cuban town / region so no real surprise they caught him trying to fly under the radar.

    Paypal is a fantastic service and they have always done right by me however i haven't breached their rules, been warned to stop and continued to breach their rules causing my account to be closed. Maybe my opinion would be different if I had.

    I'm sorry to hear it has happened but I'm not sure you should be crying fowl about it, you had warning.

    Also I don't really understand why Talk Coffee would make statements in an open forum naming other people that may have also breached PayPals policies as that could only end in grief for their business also.

    A UK coffee company has also recently experienced the same issue as Talk Coffee and have their account reinstated. As the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar (or is it bees...You get the idea). Try working with them and not openly calling them names, in forum's such as Facebook, your site and here. They can read your comments also.

    Who's loss will it be if you don't get Paypal back up, theirs - I don't think so.

    Cheers Yabba

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    Please educate me: the coffee came from Cuba, or it was descriptive (like Cuban heel?)

  36. #36
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    So I wonder (given that when the customer did actually purchase the cuban he chose to pay by direct transfer) how many thousand dollars of that $30 transaction our friendly American Company could "legally" withhold forever or until it suits them- whichever comes first of course?
    As per their T&C, you have agreed that they may hold your funds for up to 180 days following closure of your account for any reason, after which you may recover your money via a transfer or cheque. Ostensibly it's to prevent chargebacks. Practically I imagine it's for the same reason banks hold onto your money for a few days between transfers.

    It's not fair, but it was agreed to when you opened an account with them. You may be able to get your money back sooner, but they are not obligated to do so and never hid that fact from you. I get that you never thought it would happen to you but then you probably never had the intention of deliberately contravening your contractual obligations until the other day.

    This whole situation is analogous to being caught speeding and being given a warning, then doing a burnout as you leave and wondering why the cop pulls you over the second time and writes you up with the maximum penalty.

    As for them being party to the transaction, as a (practical) escrow service they are absolutely involved - the buyer pays PayPal and PayPal pays you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    As you have a contractual arrangement with them, you have broken Australian contract law. In addition, you have quite possibly broken US law, in laundering the proceeds from the sale of contraband goods through a US company. These laws generally have global jurisdiction.
    Dude, what? (on both counts)

  37. #37
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post

    At a very minimum I would think you have deliberately contravened PP's T&Cs. As you have a contractual arrangement with them, you have broken Australian contract law. In addition, you have quite possibly broken US law, in laundering the proceeds from the sale of contraband goods through a US company. These laws generally have global jurisdiction.
    With the greatest respect, there may very well be a breach of a particular contract, but I can't see what 'breach of Aust contract law' you could be talking about. There is no definition of money laundering that remotely fits the circumstances of this case. What funds are being 'cleaned' (the underlying transaction is perfectly legal)? What is your authority for your assertion that (at least some) US laws 'generally have global jurisdiction'? PP may well be in breach of US law if they facilitate Cuban trade, but Chris certainly is not (in this case).

    The fact that a firm lays a set of T&C's before you, and you agree to them is not *always* sufficient for their enforceability (though in this case I suspect that the T&Cs are enforceable).

    Just saying....
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    As for them being party to the transaction, as a (practical) escrow service they are absolutely involved - the buyer pays PayPal and PayPal pays you.
    Nope. Not in this case. The buyer ultimately purchased the goods and then paid by transferring funds directly into our bank account using his internet banking service. The transaction did not in any way involve PayPal.

    It is not illegal in Australia to import it, sell it nor for somebody to purchase it.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Not in this case. The buyer ultimately purchased the goods and then paid by transferring funds directly into our bank account. The transaction was not a PayPal transaction.
    Hmmm? I'm confused.

    Do you mean that:

    - Buyer bought Cuban beans, paid with PayPal
    - PayPal reversed transaction, informed you of breach of ToS, requested that you do not allow purchase of Cuban-origin goods using PayPal
    - You relisted as "T u r q u i n o", buyer bought, this time paying with direct debit?

    If that is the case, then you were still (presumably) in breach of the their terms as you were still offering Cuban-origin goods and allowing PayPal as a method of checkout. The attempt to dodge their analytics with the renaming would pretty well tell them that you intended to continue breaching. In that case, closure of your account would have nothing to do with the second transaction, but rather the fact that instead of complying with their terms, you'd attempted to hide future breaches.

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    We hate PooPal

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    With the greatest respect, there may very well be a breach of a particular contract, but I can't see what 'breach of Aust contract law' you could be talking about.
    Let's assume C has a contract with PP, subject to the T&Cs of that contract. C then deliberately breaches those T&Cs. That's a clear case of breaching the contract under Australian contract law, which for all intents and purposes is UK contract law. The vast majority of contract law is non-statute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    What is your authority for your assertion that (at least some) US laws 'generally have global jurisdiction'? PP may well be in breach of US law if they facilitate Cuban trade, but Chris certainly is not (in this case).
    Pretty much any US federal or state law that claims to have global jurisdiction effectively does so, just like several Australian laws claim (and enforce) global jurisdiction. Sovereignty in modern law is a very fluid subject. (Not that it's modern, but it's amazing how many people don't understand that English law is still applicable in Australia)

    In this particular case, Chris (effectively) passed funds from a trade with Cuba through a US bank account. Chris' activities in selling Cuban coffee break no US laws, but once he involves a US company to help him, then it becomes very messy.

    Of course for a small amount of coffee nobody really cares, but if he was selling goods worth many millions and passing funds through a US bank account, then a grand jury might be interested...

  41. #41
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    Let's assume C has a contract with PP, subject to the T&Cs of that contract. C then deliberately breaches those T&Cs. That's a clear case of breaching the contract under Australian contract law, which for all intents and purposes is UK contract law. The vast majority of contract law is non-statute.
    Trust me, I have an above-average legal education. I'm fully aware that the majority of contract law, and relevant precedents from equity law, are case law based.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    Pretty much any US federal or state law that claims to have global jurisdiction effectively does so, just like several Australian laws claim (and enforce) global jurisdiction. Sovereignty in modern law is a very fluid subject. (Not that it's modern, but it's amazing how many people don't understand that English law is still applicable in Australia)

    In this particular case, Chris (effectively) passed funds from a trade with Cuba through a US bank account. Chris' activities in selling Cuban coffee break no US laws, but once he involves a US company to help him, then it becomes very messy.

    Of course for a small amount of coffee nobody really cares, but if he was selling goods worth many millions and passing funds through a US bank account, then a grand jury might be interested...
    Simply asserting that any US state or Federal law that purports to have global jurisdiction effectively does, does not really answer the question. Certainly the US can prosecute US companies for transactions effected anywhere in the world. That is a long way short of having the power to prosecute foreign firms, with no US presence, for the contracts they sign in their home country with a US based payments firm.

    As far as I can tell, Chris did not pass funds from 'a trade with Cuba' to / from anyone.

    And again, I'm more aware than the average bear of the historical development of Australia's commercial laws. It's just not relevant here.

  42. #42
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough, Cuban coffee is readily available for purchase via PayPal on the American evilbay site. "Cubita Coffee" is one example and they proudly proclaim: "Made from 100%Cuban Arabica beans grown in the sierra maestra mountains". Makes you wonder about PP's seemingly selective enforcement of their own T&Cs.

  43. #43
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Interestingly enough, Cuban coffee is readily available for purchase via PayPal on the American evilbay site
    Have you tried buying some and checking out? You may find that it flags a warning that you may be in breach of XYZ. It probably also flags an alert for checking by a human to make sure that you aren't doing something you shouldn't be.

  44. #44
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Have you tried buying some and checking out? You may find that it flags a warning that you may be in breach of XYZ. It probably also flags an alert for checking by a human to make sure that you aren't doing something you shouldn't be.
    No need for me to stick my neck out... the sellers' histories are there for anyone to see. There are two sellers of said coffee.. one located in Canada and the other in the US and they both show successful sales of supposedly evil Cuban coffee... and in both cases PayPal is indeed listed as a payment option.
    Barry O'Speedwagon likes this.

  45. #45
    TC
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    We'll continue to speak with PayPal in the hope that some acceptable solution might be found.

    If anything should change, I'll report back here, but frustration vented, I'm moving on to more important things. What wil be wil be....

    Now to get this new website live....Stay tuned
    Dragunov21 likes this.

  46. #46
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Hope they choose to work with y'all on this one Talk_Coffee

  47. #47
    TC
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    So here's the resolution:

    I have agreed to it so that I can use my account to buy stuff should I need to and also so that we can take PayPal payments from clients if required. The wording of the affidavit I was required to sign suggests that this would apply to all sales here onwards regardless of whether we offer payment via PayPal or not. In brief, no Cuban product ever listed again even if we don't use PayPal at all to settle sales...

    At this stage, we won't offer the facility on our website, but will take a PayPal payment via a manual funds request if necessary.

    One would hope that 50 years on (a mere 2 generations), the USA might soften their stance on Cuba some day

    "We're sorry, but we cannot restore full access to your account until we
    receive additional information. Please note you are no longer able to buy
    or sell items of North Korean, Cuban, Syrian, Sudanese, or Iranian origin.

    To ensure that future activity and transactions comply with current

    regulations, PayPal is requesting that you complete the following appeal
    step:
    - Agree to no longer undertake activities in violation of laws, regulations
    and rules as outlined in PayPal’s User Agreement
    Any further violations will result in the closure of your account.
    Please go to our Resolution Center to provide this information. To find the
    Resolution Center, log in to your account and click the Resolution Center
    subtab. Click Resolve under the Action column and follow the instructions.
    Sincerely,
    PayPal Compliance Department"

  48. #48
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post

    "We're sorry, but we cannot restore full access to your account until we
    receive additional information. Please note you are no longer able to buy
    or sell items of North Korean, Cuban, Syrian, Sudanese, or Iranian origin.

    To ensure that future activity and transactions comply with current

    regulations, PayPal is requesting that you complete the following appeal
    step:
    - Agree to no longer undertake activities in violation of laws, regulations
    and rules as outlined in PayPal’s User Agreement
    Any further violations will result in the closure of your account.
    Please go to our Resolution Center to provide this information. To find the
    Resolution Center, log in to your account and click the Resolution Center
    subtab. Click Resolve under the Action column and follow the instructions.
    Sincerely,
    PayPal Compliance Department"
    This is BS, an American company dictating international trading terms to the people of another country, perhaps someday someone will have the guts and the cash to call their bluff in an international court.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 3rd May 2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Removal of profanity
    TC likes this.

  49. #49
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    This is BS, an American company dictating international trading terms to the people of another country, perhaps someday someone will have the guts and the cash to call their bluff in an international court.
    I think you might be confused as to what international courts are for (hint: it's issues like war crimes that affect the international community, not $250 spats between parties in different countries).

    As for the rest, it's a service provider dictating terms to their customer that the customer is free to walk away from if they don't want to use their service! What on earth is wrong with that? If I have a kickass service and I decide to require business partners to not drive Holdens under pain of termination of our contract and that requirement is written into the terms that have been agreed to, then I don't expect an ounce of complaint if I see them in a Holden, remind them of their agreement, then cut them loose when they decide to stick a Chevy badge over the top and hope I don't notice.

    Talk_Coffee, good result (getting your money back, whether or not you choose to run with PP in the future.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 3rd May 2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Removal of profanity from quote

  50. #50
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    I
    As for the rest, it's a service provider dictating terms to their customer that the customer is free to walk away from if they don't want to use their service! What on earth is wrong with that?
    That's perfectly fair enough in markets subject to perfect (or at least fully effective) competition. In a highly concentrated market, with distinct indications of the abuse of market power, courts / regulators in many countries have a clear interest in at least investigating what is going on.



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