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Thread: Not the full quid.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Not the full quid.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    In Woolies this am with my 98 yo Mum. The cashier refused to accept a $10. note that had about 1 cm missing from an edge.

    I mentioned nicely that during employment with the Commonwealth Bank some decades ago, I was the ComBank delegate for the Reserve Bank of Australia.
    This role involved ordering, receipt and re-issue of new notes from the RBA and distribution to the local banks.
    It also involved receiving 'mutilated' or very dirty and worn notes from the banks and destroying them 'on-site' by punching holes in them with a massive machine that made 'money confetti'.
    In other words, I knew a bit about what constituted legal tender.

    I told her that any genuine Australian banknote comprising more than 50% of the note is legal tender and should be accepted for commercial transactions but ultimately withdrawn from circulation at the point that it contacts the banking system.
    (Any part of a note less than 50% is worth nothing)

    Her supervisor said that it was not acceptable as part of the serial number was missing (the part of the note that is missing is irrelevant)
    She then said that "Armaguard will not allow us to give them these notes".
    It seems Armaguard call the shots with Woolworths - who'd have thunk it!

    She said I needed to go to the bank and get it exchanged (so banks will accept it but Woolies will not)

    I went to my bank on the way home and the tellers were greatly amused at Woolies' attitude and agreed that what I had been told could only be explained by being part of some bizzare corporate policy of Woolies.

    I have contacted Woolies National Contact Centre and will let you know how this plays out.
    Andy and coffeechris like this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    How stupid is that........
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  3. #3
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    Yeah, that's a load of BS, this is one of those things that I think should be part of primary school education. "What is and is not legal tender"...

    Armaguard won't accept it, bollocks. What do they do, check every note at the store before they take it out to the truck? I think not... Quite apart from that, they have no business refusing to accept it in any case, Armaguard are merely a courier firm, no more, no less, the fact that they courier money is irrelevant (for the purposes of this discussion anyway, there are various legal eccentricities around all of this but they are not relevant here). Moreover I've had damaged notes tendered in change from both of the major supermarkets.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrewster View Post
    Moreover I've had damaged notes tendered in change from both of the major supermarkets.
    I have had at a guess at least 10 notes in really worn condition from the self serve check outs, where i have looked at the note and almost thought about asking for a different one.

    I do not know who keeps the notes stocked up in these machines?

    Maybe the checkout person and supervisors die hard attitude is coming down from further up? Urging staff to not accept any dodgy looking notes at all, may make it harder for staff to be slipped counterfeit notes ?

  5. #5
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    In Woolies this am with my 98 yo Mum. The cashier refused to accept a $10. note that had about 1 cm missing from an edge.

    I mentioned nicely that during employment with the Commonwealth Bank some decades ago, I was the ComBank delegate for the Reserve Bank of Australia.
    This role involved ordering, receipt and re-issue of new notes from the RBA and distribution to the local banks.
    It also involved receiving 'mutilated' or very dirty and worn notes from the banks and destroying them 'on-site' by punching holes in them with a massive machine that made 'money confetti'.
    In other words, I knew a bit about what constituted legal tender.

    I told her that any genuine Australian banknote comprising more than 50% of the note is legal tender and should be accepted for commercial transactions but ultimately withdrawn from circulation at the point that it contacts the banking system.
    (Any part of a note less than 50% is worth nothing)

    Her supervisor said that it was not acceptable as part of the serial number was missing (the part of the note that is missing is irrelevant)
    She then said that "Armaguard will not allow us to give them these notes".
    It seems Armaguard call the shots with Woolworths - who'd have thunk it!

    She said I needed to go to the bank and get it exchanged (so banks will accept it but Woolies will not)

    I went to my bank on the way home and the tellers were greatly amused at Woolies' attitude and agreed that what I had been told could only be explained by being part of some bizzare corporate policy of Woolies.

    I have contacted Woolies National Contact Centre and will let you know how this plays out.
    Outrageous, but this doesn't surprise me

  6. #6
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    I wouldnt let it cause you too much anxiety, life's too short, go play with your family!

  7. #7
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    Woollies... The new money police. Next time they give me a damaged note I will be sure to refuse it. I went to subway for lunch one day and instead of giving me $2 they gave me some foreign coin. I went back the next day for my lunch and gave it back to them as a $2 coin. They told me that it wasn't au tender so I told them that they gave it to me the day before as change and if it can be given as $2 change that it should be accepted as $2. They accepted it and apologized.
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  8. #8
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    I have contacted Woolies National Contact Centre and will let you know how this plays out.


    I look forward to the punchline!

    any genuine Australian banknote comprising more than 50% of the note is legal tender and should be accepted for commercial transactions


    I heard of a scam where you cut a 10% slice off a bank note, and stick it back together. Cut the 20% of the next note and replace it with the 10% you took from the first note... continue and eventually you have created a new note... far better than bank interest!

    ;-)

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    Good scam until you get caught and put in prison longer than your cell mate Bubba who's in prison for murder.

  10. #10
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post
    I do not know who keeps the notes stocked up in these machines?
    Ummmmmm.............. Armaguard? :-D With the notes they reject. ;-D
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  11. #11
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    Might be interesting to someone: RBA Banknotes: Damaged Banknotes Policy

    If you have a bank note with more than 20% but less than 80% missing, "Value is paid in proportion with the percentage remaining, e.g. $5 value for half of a $10 banknote."

  12. #12
    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    lucky the teller didnt accept your $10 - she probably would have got the sack.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    RBA Policy and what happens in the real world of Branch Banking are of course, two different things.
    Trading Banks find it impractical to issue refunds on incomplete notes based on what proportion of the note remains.
    You start getting into discussions about whether the portion being offered represents 30% or 45% and is worth ???
    Bear in mind that notes are often not torn straight across.
    Banks generally solve the dilemma by simply paying full face value on what is clearly more than half and nothing on what is clearly less than half.
    (most people would accept a note with a bit missing but few would accept half)
    It would probably be safe to pay $5. on exactly half but I would wonder how (and why) someone came to accept half a note.
    I have never before been challenged by a business or commercial organisation on an almost whole note and would be annoyed to find that the country's biggest supermarket was taking this kind of unhelpful approach.
    (particularly as it probably came from them in change in the first place)
    cod50 likes this.

  14. #14
    Senior Member csutak40's Avatar
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    I think you will probably be told (if you take it high enough) that the staff member misunderstood the policy. It is a clear case of some staff member having been given some authority, which has gone to their head. The job description obviously doesn't require using ones brains. You could have insisted that they phone their bank to clarify I suppose

  15. #15
    Senior Member csutak40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post

    I heard of a scam where you cut a 10% slice off a bank note, and stick it back together. Cut the 20% of the next note and replace it with the 10% you took from the first note... continue and eventually you have created a new note... far better than bank interest!

    ;-)
    Well, my son worked for a servo and they are supposed to attempt to tear notes in half (not sure if all, or just $50 notes - he told me about the $50) If it tears, it is counterfeit. I suspect your band-aided note would tear

  16. #16
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    But is that trying to tear it where there is no nick, or tearing already torn pieces?

  17. #17
    Senior Member csutak40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoner View Post
    But is that trying to tear it where there is no nick, or tearing already torn pieces?
    They are supposed to try to tear all of them. Apparently real notes won't tear, made out of some plastic stuff, but counterfeit will - seems quite a few counterfeit $50s are in circulation

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by csutak40 View Post
    They are supposed to try to tear all of them. Apparently real notes won't tear, made out of some plastic stuff, but counterfeit will - seems quite a few counterfeit $50s are in circulation
    Yeah, the polymer notes are pretty robust, if there's no pre-existing nicks it is very difficult to tear them.

    I was surprised to see signs around about counterfeit $50 notes around, considering that this is the first time in what nearly 20 years (think that's about when the polymer notes came into circulation)? That anybody's actually successfully (apparently) counterfeited Australian currency. Not sure how you'd make a plausible counterfeit out of anything other than a polymer ("plastic stuff") though, there's a bunch of other anti-counterfeiting measures which are pretty much impossible to fake without using polymer stock, though I suppose they could be using a different plastic. I'd love to get my hands on one of the counterfeits just for personal curiosity, but I'm pretty sure that knowingly posessing counterfeit currency is illegal

  19. #19
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Received a call this afternoon from the Woolies Area Office.
    He agreed that there was no reason to refuse the largely intact note involved.
    The company policy is certainly less than clear on what can and can't be accepted, but the main problem seems to lie with the arrangement with Armaguard which apparently stipulates 'no mutilated notes'.
    This is doubly surprising in view of the RBA Policy that identifies security companies such as Armaguard as one of the key points at which mutilated notes are removed from circulation.
    I mentioned that I thought it was strange that the 'tail was wagging the dog'.
    The Woolies representative was very reasonable and we had a lengthy discussion about the various aspects of the case incl RBA policy & banking practices.
    Like most people, he had probably not had cause to think about these issues.
    I encouraged him to forward the matter for consideration by Head Office. Will this happen? Who knows.
    I have done my bit for truth, justice, and the Australian way.



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