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Thread: Windows 8.1

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Windows 8.1

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    The time has come for a new OS, been using XP since it's release, have never had a problem, sadly with MS withdrawing support in April I'm forced into making a move, going to have a new box built at the same time.

    I've had a quick run down on 8.1, seems everything is there just that accessing things is a bit different.

    Would like to hear opinions from experienced people who have been using 8.1 for a while, regarding ease of use, stability, speed, likes and dislikes etc.

    To the Apple people who I'm sure are itching to try to convert me, I will be sticking with MS, it's always worked very well for me.

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    Don't even think about it if you don't have a touchsceen.
    Stick with Win7.

  3. #3
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    To the Apple people who I'm sure are itching to try to convert me, I will be sticking with MS, it's always worked very well for me.
    It's just that a Mac would be so much BETTER and so much more FUN and so much more LOGICAL and is so USER FRIENDLY..... and..... and...and

    I'm not itching, Yelta ;-D ;-D;-D;-D

    p.s. I use both Mac and Windows......... Mac wins, hands down.......

    Now for the Punch and Judy......;-D

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    MS has already acknowledged the failure of Win 8/8.1 and plans to release Win9 in April 2015. Though it does not really help in your decision. No XP Support for a year can be a risk, as any holes they find in 7/8 can possibly be used on XP. Atm im supporting a company with 600+ users migration from XP to Win7 and they have completely scrapped 8 mainly due to poor functionality. Though I have to say you don't really need a touch screen for Win8. It's more about learning the new functionality, which will be irrelevant come Win9. So I'd just stick with Win7 for 5+ years.

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yep...

    I agree. Win7 Pro is still available commercially and is way more friendly and intuitive to use. I've got Win8 Pro installed as a dual-boot o/s but after testing out over the past few months, I'm sticking with Win7 Pro until something MUCH better comes along.

    And, as for switching over to an Apple system? Well, this is not even conceivable after being an MS o/s user for the last couple of decades. Way too much software on hand that will never work outside of a PC... If I do ever make a switch, it will be to a Linux kernel of one flavour or another.

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foana View Post
    MS has already acknowledged the failure of Win 8/8.1 and plans to release Win9 in April 2015. Though it does not really help in your decision. No XP Support for a year can be a risk, as any holes they find in 7/8 can possibly be used on XP. Atm im supporting a company with 600+ users migration from XP to Win7 and they have completely scrapped 8 mainly due to poor functionality. Though I have to say you don't really need a touch screen for Win8. It's more about learning the new functionality, which will be irrelevant come Win9. So I'd just stick with Win7 for 5+ years.
    Link to acknowledgement please? The release of 9 isn't an acknowledgement in itself, unless you consider the release of 8 to similar acknowledge the failure of 7 (same time frame: 3 years).

    Yelta, 8.1 will be fine for you if you're prepared to learn, or you're already using keyboard search for everything you do in XP. If you don't want to learn, 7 is a better pick, as it's easier to setup to work like XP.

    8.1 pros: faster, more secure, more stable, some handy new features.

    7 pros: better backup (particularly if you get the pro version), traditional interface, well-tested.

    Most businesses will use 7, because it's now well-known and proven environment. Business IT is typically fairly conservative though, and once they're on 7 it's likely they won't upgrade again for another 2-3 versions (probably Win 10, if we get one).

    FWIW, I use both 7 & 8 on a daily basis. I'm starting to miss some of the 8 shortcuts in 7, but really there's not much to complain about with either.

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    Oh, and as for Apple, it's worth pointing out that they support their OSes for about 3 years. XP is on it's 13th year of support. :P

  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    8.1 pros: faster, more secure, more stable, some handy new features.
    Definitely not faster with the app's I use day to day...
    A lot of those so-called features are also downright annoying...

    Mal.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foana View Post
    MS has already acknowledged the failure of Win 8/8.1 and plans to release Win9 in April 2015. Though it does not really help in your decision. No XP Support for a year can be a risk, as any holes they find in 7/8 can possibly be used on XP. Atm im supporting a company with 600+ users migration from XP to Win7 and they have completely scrapped 8 mainly due to poor functionality. Though I have to say you don't really need a touch screen for Win8. It's more about learning the new functionality, which will be irrelevant come Win9. So I'd just stick with Win7 for 5+ years.
    Thanks foana, that's the sort of info Im looking for.

    The reports are not saying 8 is a failure simply that sales are slower than they had hoped, only 25 million sales so far I would imagine a lot are going for mobile devices rather than desk top machines, it's a totally different market than it was 10 years ago, desk top suits my needs just fine.

    Not prepared to stick with XP unsupported for the next 12 months, as far as touch screen is concerned I really don't see the point of it on a desk top machine, my current box is well over 5 years old so I really do need to act pretty soon.

    Don't feel inclined to spend on an old OS, Windows 7, as I said in my original post, have had a brief run through on 8, seems everything is there, just a matter of learning to do things a little differently, I imagine there will be a reasonably priced seamless upgrade to 9 when the time comes.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Thanks Dimal and Fruity, valuable insights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Definitely not faster with the app's I use day to day...
    A lot of those so-called features are also downright annoying...

    Mal.
    Which apps? It is faster to boot and faster to launch most applications. Obviously there will be exceptions.

    As for new features, I was referring to things like Storage Spaces & the new Winkey shortcuts. Can't see how they'd be annoying. ;-)

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    Yeah, so "failure" might have been a bit harsh, but all you need to do is a google search to read the myriad of articles alluding to it. Win8 was MS trying to combat the vastly expanding market share of tablets which is currently killing PC sales. Not because Windows 7 is a failure. The problem is existing PC users/environments don't want a fancy new way of doing things. And thus poor uptake and bad sales. MS have refused to bring back the functionality of previous OS and so Win9 is a thing that has to happen.

    If history repeats itself, you will get offered a cheap upgrade to Win9, though that is usually only offered months before the next OS is released.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foana View Post
    Yeah, so "failure" might have been a bit harsh, but all you need to do is a google search to read the myriad of articles alluding to it.

    If history repeats itself, you will get offered a cheap upgrade to Win9, though that is usually only offered months before the next OS is released.
    Yep done that, my take is that a lot of the criticism is coming from those who are pretty computer illiterate, incapable of learning how to use a new OS or are simply resistant to change.

    I'm sure I can (make do) with 8.1 until 9 shows up.

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    I can certainly see that a lot tech pundits are rubbishing the UI (and rightly so, in some respects). But I don't know that MS considers it a failure. Their sales so far have been actually pretty good.

    IMHO, calling it 'Windows' was a mistake. People have certain expectations of what Windows is, and Win8 doesn't fit those expectations.

    If they'd just called it something else completely, there would be very little (justifiable) criticism over the UI - it could then be compared to other touch UIs like iOS or Android.

    Either way, it doesn't take long to get used to at all, particularly if you forget about clicking your way through everything and start searching from the keyboard.
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    I agree, it should have been rebranded. But I guess it really comes down to how you define failure, or even if MS would admit it. Generally they are trying to make profit via sales, and if sales are bad it may indicate that a product is failing.

    "NetMarketShare, an Internet statistics portal, estimates that total share of Windows 9 to 10 per cent, significantly lower than competitor Android. Its predecessor, Windows 7, continues to enjoy increase in sales. However, Windows 8.1 has an even lower adoption rate of only 3.6 per cent as of mid-January.Another industry researcher, TechMarketView, said that corporate clients are still purchasing more Windows 7 PCs, while "Windows 8 is not getting a look-in from the corporate users and the consumers I've spoken to all say they appalled by it," said TechMarketView Chairman Richard Holway."

    Windows 8 Suffers from Poor Sales, Bad Customer Feedback - International Business Times

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Yep done that, my take is that a lot of the criticism is coming from those who are pretty computer illiterate, incapable of learning how to use a new OS or are simply resistant to change.

    I'm sure I can (make do) with 8.1 until 9 shows up.
    My take on it is that W8 is an abortion of a product, simply because the only thing Windows really has going for it (IMO) is its existing market share (and compatibility therewith) and users' familiarity with the interface.

    W8 UI is counterintuitive to Windows users in a lot of ways, and from what I've heard from a couple of guys in sysadmin roles it's a PITA to integrate into existing systems in some ways (I'm assuming networking and distributed app management, but I'm just guessing).

    Part of that issue is retraining users in a corporate environment; sometimes it's better to keep a less efficient interface if the retraining/unfamiliarity inefficiencies outweigh the difference between the current UI and the new one. Given that corporate users rarely use touchscreens in the first place, I'm not even sure there's an argument to be made that it can be more efficient for business use.

    As it stands, they're trying to out-apple apple, and it's a bit like a guy who's been teaching karate for twenty years, hears everyone likes this new BJJ thing and starts teaching that instead.

    Karateka are going to hate the change and people who like BJJ enough to be doing that are going to go with the people who have been teaching BJJ for ten years, not the guy trying to play catch-up.

  17. #17
    TC
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    Yep- no interest for me whatsoever.

    We're now 100% Mac except for a standalone Win 7 notebook used to run RoastMonitor. I wouldn't go back.

  18. #18
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Like Chris, Mac through & through I'm afraid bar a banger CS laptop. Been using them now since the last millennium!
    Used to work in prepress using both platforms - but that simply confirmed my loyalties!

    But good luck with Win8.1

  19. #19
    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
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    MS don't say Vista was a failure either, but the many thousands of machines purchased then 'upgraded' to WinXP would tend to disagree. MS claimed lots of sales but that was on bundled OS?machine sales and didn't count how many of those promptly became wickedly fast XP boxes.

    Stick with Win7 till the next version comes out. W8 (a better name for it ) is the new Vista. You can config it to run like Win7 but very few people like it and it's a resource hog like Vista was. (there is a reason why Android tablets come with 16GB or 32GB and W8 tablets have 64GB as minimum.

    re Apple - it's a not-so-surprising support issue for them. With all it's failings, MS has had to support 5 or more generations of hardware with each version of Windows; Apple supports only one. Want the new OS, buy the new box. So they limit support to make their customers buy the new box. I've got an old IBM R60 running Win7 and I had it running on an R52. The R52 predates the sale of PC/Laptop business to Lenovo by about 4 years, so that's an almost 10 year old machine. as far as I know Mavericks is the first attempt by Apple to cover multi-generations of Macs.

  20. #20
    bxp
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    Given the choice I'd probably still get Win 7 if I was paying, however would get Windows 8 if it was cheaper. I have it on my server because I managed to get a free legitimate license.

    Just do steps one and two in the following guide, even if you're in 8.1 and then it all functions pretty much as 7 does anyway.

    Windows 8.1 tips & tricks: 13 ways to increase productivity | IT PRO

    I've only been using computers for about 20 years but when I first installed Win 8 RC1 and I had to Google "How to close a window in windows 8", I knew there was something not very intuitive about the OS. My issues were all solved just by booting to desktop and installing Classic Shell, which allows an XP/7 start button and functionality. I'm a fan of new stuff but I think they dropped the ball by not offering a 'classic' mode.

  21. #21
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    Which apps? It is faster to boot and faster to launch most applications. Obviously there will be exceptions.
    There would only be milliseconds in it and therefore neither here nor there as far as App' launching is concerned. Application usage after launching is not measurably different on my system.

    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    As for new features, I was referring to things like Storage Spaces & the new Winkey shortcuts. Can't see how they'd be annoying. ;-)
    Don't use either of these in my work-flow and as far as the default user i/face is concerned, it's terrible in a desktop environment. I use a small app that starts Win8 straight on to a desktop, where life is much easier...

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    There would only be milliseconds in it and therefore neither here nor there as far as App' launching is concerned. Application usage after launching is not measurably different on my system.


    Don't use either of these in my work-flow and as far as the default user i/face is concerned, it's terrible in a desktop environment. I use a small app that starts Win8 straight on to a desktop, where life is much easier...

    Mal.
    That's a common criticism I don't understand. If you're using it in desktop mode, how is terrible vs 7? It's essentially the same.

    I'd suggest checking out the new shortcuts. Win+X is especially useful, and you'll miss it when you go back to 7. Certainly time-saving, which realistically, is what it's all about.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    As far as keyboard-searching/launching, I can (and do) do that in W7, FWIW.

  24. #24
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    That's a common criticism I don't understand. If you're using it in desktop mode, how is terrible vs 7? It's essentially the same.
    It doesn't default to Desktop with Start - Takes more fiddling than it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    I'd suggest checking out the new shortcuts. Win+X is especially useful, and you'll miss it when you go back to 7. Certainly time-saving, which realistically, is what it's all about.
    That doesn't suit my workflow and I'm happy that it works for you. Doesn't work for me and that is that, as far as I'm concerned. And by the way, my computer experience goes way back to the mid 70s when huge mainframes were the only game in town, so I know how to work my way around a PC environment and several different O/S's too...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    And by the way, my computer experience goes way back to the mid 70s when huge mainframes were the only game in town, so I know how to work my way around a PC environment and several different O/S's too...

    Mal.
    Here comes the holier than thou... :P

    It can default to desktop in 8.1. You don't need an app. And being a user since the 70s, I'm surprised you don't use keyboard shortcuts almost exclusively!?

    Back on topic, like I said, if you're prepared to LEARN Win8 is the obvious choice, Yelta. It won't take more than a couple of hours to master if you go in with an open mind.

  26. #26
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Wow!
    "holier than thou" is a game Mal doesn't play.
    That is just a misread of his post. :-D

    Go Mac....Plug-in. Play. Period.;-D

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    I run a Linux Desktop at work, I connect to a Windows 7 desktop for my work apps.
    I Run UNIX on my home server, I use an OSX desktop and a new touchscreen Laptop running windows 8. I have not upgraded this to 8.1 yet, I'm a UNIX admin, ie I'm lazy.

    Why do I use all of these, because each performs it's specific purpose best. Linux at work for my systems admin & scripting, Windows for my office Apps, UNIX on my home Server for Mass storage and virtualisation, OSX for itunes streaming (for SWMBO) and web browsing and Windows for Games. I might look into using Linux this or next year for games, but I doubt it will be a complete cutover.

    at home my everyday is the windows 8 laptop? because everything else is packed away ( I moved in march ((2013)) and I still have everything in boxes ) but it does what I NEED it to do.

    Windows 8:
    It's different yes. It's not like any of its predecessors, But it's no slouch, given reasonable hardware it runs quite fast, give it old or insufficient hardware and it will suck.
    I would say give it memory, then an SSD, then better CPU (then dedicated Graphics if you want it).

    I would say windows 8 is as stable as windows 7 (patched to date), which I'd say was as stable as windows XP (which I now have not used for about 3 years).
    It forces you to reboot if you have been running for too long ( I think 2 weeks it starts prompting you ) which probably gives it a little more stability (regular reboots to clear locks , dead processes & mem leaks before they turn into crashes).

    The touchscreen interface (what was called metro) I do not use. Why ? because the apps I use are not metro apps, I use a web browser, iTunes and steam (for games), or launch the apps I need from desktop shortcuts.
    Finding apps that are installed can be a problem, they don't always get added to the metro apps list (could be win 8 app installs need something different to windows 7).

    Once you are in Desktop mode and you have your apps running, It's much like windows 7.

    If all of the apps you use are metro apps, I cannot say how good it is (using the touchscreen may be better) as i don't use any. ( of course they are not metro apps because you run XP )

    As Chris says, he uses what works, but windows 7 for Roast monitor, why ? probably because it only runs on windows.

    What I'm trying to say is, make sure the apps you use work on Windows 8, If they are great, you'll have no stability or performance issues Windows 8, Just the possible Usability issue :-)

  28. #28
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Wow.....I guess I should stop using MS-DOS? And the TRS-80 and Spectrum should go to the trash bin in the sky?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Wow.....I guess I should stop using MS-DOS? And the TRS-80 and Spectrum should go to the trash bin in the sky?
    Barry,
    Only if they are no longer working for you, If they still work, then why the hell not ?

    I can assure you, nobody would think to write a virus or exploit for them nowadays :-)

  30. #30
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amellor View Post
    Barry,
    Only if they are no longer working for you, If they still work, then why the hell not ?

    I can assure you, nobody would think to write a virus or exploit for them nowadays :-)
    Yeh, stuff all chance of getting a virus into the TRS-80...given that it uses a cassette drive

  31. #31
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    My uncle was furious that W7 was not compatible with his DOS-based spreadsheet program he's been using for a million years...

    I'm all for "if it ain't broke", but seriously, Excel is a great bit of kit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Wow!
    "holier than thou" is a game Mal doesn't play.
    That is just a misread of his post. :-D

    Go Mac....Plug-in. Play. Period.;-D
    Ah, my mistake. Harder to convey attitude online!

    And you missed two extra steps in you Mac scenario: Mac dies after 2 years, buy new Mac. ;-)

    Seriously though, from a repair/service point of view, Macs are an expensive PITA. It really prejudices me against them as a whole. :-/

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    And I have to disagree with just one point, amellor: 7 & 8 are both vastly more stable/reliable than XP. Plenty of stats on that one available on the web. :-)

  34. #34
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    Back on topic, like I said, if you're prepared to LEARN Win8 is the obvious choice, Yelta. It won't take more than a couple of hours to master if you go in with an open mind.
    Tell that to the people still typing with two fingers... You know, the same people who used to go around disabling firewalls/AVs before they started discriminating between users and admins.

  35. #35
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    Ah, my mistake. Harder to convey attitude online!

    And you missed two extra steps in you Mac scenario: Mac dies after 2 years, buy new Mac. ;-)

    Seriously though, from a repair/service point of view, Macs are an expensive PITA. It really prejudices me against them as a whole. :-/
    Seriously........ and you're an experienced Mac user???????

    Sorry fruity but that's a load of twaddle, I mean like, a complete load.

    I have two Macs running in the house, one is 8 years old, the other 6.
    They are used to run a business.
    I bought 3 when I first got into Macs, one went with a split up so I don't know about it but it did run a hairdressing business for 4 years.
    The other; my daughter had it for 5 years, as a Textile Designer and online business; she upgraded for a bigger screen.
    None have ever required repairs.

    Yes, I've upgraded RAM in one, nothin' unusual about that; if you want to take advantage of new OS.

    Spreading misinformation, prejudice and biased generalisations are a waste of time.
    But that's the 'Punch and Judy' ;-D

  36. #36
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Without the 'tude, but otherwise, this^^

    They might be expensive to repair, but the build quality is better than anything I've seen in the consumer-PC world and I get the impression that they're significantly more reliable.

  37. #37
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    For what it's worth....

    I reckon Mac's of various incarnations are pretty decent computers. Used to own an Apple II way back when and I loved it, for what it was. Nearly bought an iMac a couple of years ago when I was trying to setup a decent DAW, just so much trouble with hardware/driver compatibility with PCs, but I managed to luck out with a combo that worked, at the last minute before decision time.

    I also love Linux boxes. Heaps of flexibility and the sky is the limit for the sorts of things that are possible. Unfortunately though, I have a plethora of dedicated and aged MS and other software, that will not run properly on anything other than a Windows box, so that is pretty well where I'm stuck. In reality, it doesn't much matter what hardware/OS combo you have, so long as it does everything you want in an efficient and effortless way. Rather than get too involved in future windows builds, I'll build a Linux box out of spares I have on hand and use that for everything I can; anything I can't, well, that stays on the current Windows box.

    Mal.

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    Windows 8.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Without the 'tude, but otherwise, this^^

    They might be expensive to repair, but the build quality is better than anything I've seen in the consumer-PC world and I get the impression that they're significantly more reliable.
    They're mostly made with the same components, so how could they be more reliable? Sure, you average $1000 Mac is a better machine than the $299 Acer at the supermarket, but what else would you expect?

    I'm not speaking as a Mac user, I'm speaking as someone who fixes the damn things. And I'll say I've seen some seriously shoddy PC designs out there, and some very, very cheap components, but for the same money you'll get as good or better quality components in PC-land.

    But that wasn't really what I was getting at anyway: I was getting at the actual cost of repairs. I'm glad you haven't had an issues personally, but when I see a standard power supply replacement on an iMac costing 4 times the price of an equivalent PC one, you have to say "WTF?!". They do fail (particularly HDDs & PSUs), and when they do it's expensive. Often so much so Mac users tend to just go buy a new one.

    Whether that's ultimately fiscal or philosophical I don't know.

    So bias? No, not really. Just empirical evidence. I know it offends the sensibilities of Mac users though, so usually I just smile and nod when they tell me they're magically indestructible machines. ;p

  39. #39
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    for the same money you'll get as good or better quality components in PC-land.
    Of course, no-one's arguing that. All I can go off is the fact that most people I know running anything from Dells to Asuses to HPs (spit) to Acers have had something fail or start malfunctioning within about three years. The few (6, that I can recall) that own Macs haven't had anything fail in 2-6 years of ownership.

    I'd assumed that part of it might be better-engineered cooling solutions, as that's where most laptop PCs I've seen fall down.

    Not a representative sample, but that's where my opinion comes from.

  40. #40
    bxp
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    I've had this discussion a few times with people and based on my research the failure rates between computer makers are pretty close . Like the study I read had all the reputable brands within 5%. So it boils down to what OS, what warranty and what price you get as the components are all the same. The components quoted MTBF doesn't changed based on who's building the system.

    I agree I see a lot more broken down PCs than Mac and it has nothing to do with quality, it's to do with there being less Macs being used. As failure rates are similar the higher systems sold will have higher total figures fail. Anything else you want to tell yourself is placebo.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    And I have to disagree with just one point, amellor: 7 & 8 are both vastly more stable/reliable than XP. Plenty of stats on that one available on the web. :-)
    Hi Fruity

    You sound just like a friend of mine who uses Win8, after a lot of prior praising of both Vista(!) & Win7. My background: My company rolled out over 2000 WAN's and LAN's all over Aust from 1989 onwards, mostly my design. I also build custom servers, notebooks or specific task desktops (i.e. "Mac prices" with "IBM speed and business functionality"). FYI, in house Microsoft user functionality tests failed Win8 months ago (using their own people as guinea pigs!).

    My first computer use was what is now called chat / messenger in 1970. I currently use various 'nixes (including MacOs) and flavours of Windows.

    I have 4 industrial strength desktops (different flavours of top drawer hardware) that multiboot (Slackware & Debian Linux, FreeBSD Unix, Win XP w PAE, 7 (32 & 64 bit), 8 & 8.1). The only time they blue screen: you guessed it: Win7 and 8 both crash ("kernel panic" if MS had the guts to say so) about every three weeks or so. They are never in Win for more than one day as their memory map is shot in light use by that time. Oh, I had to move the memory back down to 16Gb because Win8 crashes even more often when using 32Gb. If I kept on that path I reckon I would have go back to a single monitor (down from three), take out one graphic card, perhaps start downgrading CPU cores (down from 8 to ???) and perhaps go back to 32 bit & 4Gb RAM as well. Programming is the best that India has to offer (put a debugger on it and be horrified: more lost memory pointers than cheap map). Perhaps they are suitable for internet use & emails, certainly not for my real work. And don't even get me started on the compatibility issues which vary from accounting spreadsheets snafu's to power station control system meltdowns. Complete junk IMO, although I admit Win7 is at least 100% more stable than Win8 (not saying much there).

    My 1999 personal workhorse has never crashed using any of the 'nixes or Win 98 & XP. It was supposed to be upgraded by one these 4 machines just over a year ago. I am now on the point of making yet another machine running ZEN Hypervisor so if Win 7 / 8 drops it guts I can just restart its shell. Option 2: Run a 'nix and use VMware, virtual box parallels or whatever as a virtual machine and quarantine the various Win's that way. For an upgraded machine that I expected to have operational in a spare month circa Dec 2012, all 4 are proving to have untenable stability and compatibility issues but only in Win7 & 8. That is why businesses are (reluctantly) moving away from XP now. If it didn't run out of support, I doubt that they would bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    For what it's worth....

    I reckon Mac's of various incarnations are pretty decent computers. Used to own an Apple II way back when and I loved it, for what it was. Nearly bought an iMac a couple of years ago when I was trying to setup a decent DAW, just so much trouble with hardware/driver compatibility with PCs, but I managed to luck out with a combo that worked, at the last minute before decision time.

    I also love Linux boxes. Heaps of flexibility and the sky is the limit for the sorts of things that are possible. Unfortunately though, I have a plethora of dedicated and aged MS and other software, that will not run properly on anything other than a Windows box, so that is pretty well where I'm stuck. In reality, it doesn't much matter what hardware/OS combo you have, so long as it does everything you want in an efficient and effortless way. Rather than get too involved in future windows builds, I'll build a Linux box out of spares I have on hand and use that for everything I can; anything I can't, well, that stays on the current Windows box.

    Mal.
    Hi Mal

    "I also love Linux boxes": Considering they just work, it is hard not to.

    "plethora of dedicated and aged MS and other software": Me too. Especially since a lot of these client systems are CAD/CAM where replacing a few million $$$'s worth of manufacturing gear (30 year lifespan is common) to "upgrade" your OS is validly seen as a really bad joke. I am getting to the point (as you may well be) of getting back into virtual machines to gain some overall reliability. Full retirement from IS is looking more attractive by the day!



    TampIt

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    Can't say I ever liked Vista, TampIt: that genuinely was a very underdone OS, and the driver support at release was absolutely woeful. I can still here myself bitching about it. ;-) Mind you, you might recall that XP RTM was also a horrible pig of an OS: SP2 was where it really became great.

    Personally I still use a mix of platforms depending on requirements, and yeah, it still includes an ancient XP machine. I keep it offline though, and it only has one job to do. :P

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    Can't say I ever liked Vista, TampIt: that genuinely was a very underdone OS, and the driver support at release was absolutely woeful. I can still here myself bitching about it. ;-) Mind you, you might recall that XP RTM was also a horrible pig of an OS: SP2 was where it really became great.

    Personally I still use a mix of platforms depending on requirements, and yeah, it still includes an ancient XP machine. I keep it offline though, and it only has one job to do. :P
    Hi fruity

    What can I say? Never buy version one of anything MS.

    Reliability: Windows took several releases until 3.11 finally (mostly) worked. Win95 was rubbish until B so MS "fixed it" by adding/embedding Internet Explorer so C sucked. Win98 a rare mix: totally unstable & insecure until second edition. Then MS "patches" screwed the speed towards the end of its life (to force people into XP?). WinXP: SP3 made it work properly (still insecure unless beaten up severely during setup), that is when I finally moved my 98 clients over. IMO Vista 7 & 8 are still way too immature in a lot of areas where XP "just works". Sad to think I was running 8 monitor systems under MS Dos 3.3 & Slackware 2 (stockbroker client) and Win7 barely manages 3 without shooting itself. Try it with two portraits (A4 word processing) with one landscape (spreadsheets & firefox) one in between them. Even the backgrounds fail (see attached)Win7 Background.jpg. Junk. Especially since my old Red Hat v5 machine ('96?) or WinXP (2001) would even allow me to use differing backgrounds & resolutions on each of 5 screens.

    Anyway, back to a decent coffee with... (too many choices today). At least I know that will work today.

    TampIt

  44. #44
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    As I expected, this thread certainly took off, thanks for the replies.

    Have had a play with 8.1 and doubt I will have any problems coming to terms with it, everything I need is there, just a matter of taking the blinkers of and getting used to it.

    Have ordered a new box, Intel i7 4770 processor, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM and 1TB WD Black HDD with 8.1 installed.

    As I said in my OP, was looking for comments from people who have been using 8 for a while, a couple of the people who replied fit the bill admirably, the rest, not so much.

    I know Apple people feel they are duty bound to spread the gospel (bit like those nice young men in suits who knock on your door) according to Cupertino, however I did explain I will be sticking with MS, has always worked well for me so I have no reason to change.

    Thanks again for the input, its been very entertaining.

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    Nice machine, Yelta. If you can stretch the budget, grab an SSD too and you'll substantially improve the general feel of it! ;-)
    Dragunov21 likes this.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    Nice machine, Yelta. If you can stretch the budget, grab an SSD too and you'll substantially improve the general feel of it! ;-)
    Thanks Fruity, would you mind PMing me with a bit more info on the SSD.

  47. #47
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    New box, willingness to tackle a new view of how to do things... you should be fine. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after (say) 6 months of use. Make sure to note how many GB's of 'updates' you get as well please. I just recently rebuilt a Win7 box and promptly got about 1.5GB of updates - can you spell 'New OS'?

    I started with Olivetti M24's in a work environment but my real job was running Prime Information across the State and fixing DB's to give out useful information to queries. (and teaching all the users how to do them ) I loved DOS for the fun it was, and my bestest Win was WFWG 3.11 - mainly because I could make it sing with tweaking.

    Everyone seems to have forgotten Win NT4 - replacing the slow old dog that was 3.51 it foreshadowed WinXP in a stable and secure environment. (as an aside, we had a section in the Dept requiring secure workstations - I talked the ITD Manager into getting NT4 for them and came in on Monday to find most of the IT section looking to hang me off the balcony - the Manager had decided if NT4 was good enough for THAT section, the entire Dept should have it. We promptly had over 1000 PC's to rebuild or replace - NOT HAPPY JAN!)

    My personal opinion of Win8 is MS once more dumped on its users in favour of corporate strategy to take on Android. Vista and Office 2007 were disasters for MS in spite of their cooking the figures to make it all look better. Win7 and Office 2010 rescued them but, learn from their mistakes? Not on your life. I doubt Win8 will do much to improve MS standing in the consumer market which seems hell-bent on smaller devices runing Android, and from a business PoV, as mentioned above, the learning curve will have many IT budgets screaming NO to upgrading.

    We looked at the cost for upgrading to Office 2007 when it came out (we'd already convinced Management to scrap any plans our vendors had to give us Vista) and the potential drop in productivity as well as the stress on many of our staff (Aged Care industry, lots of old-timers and many facility staff who had skills at the level of, push this button, then that one) left us with )ff2K3 until we showed 2010 to be much more friendly.

    I think Win8 is doomed to be an also-ran. MS should have brought out a corporate upgrade to Win7 (or even just not bothered, it is running fine almost everywhere) and a consumer level interface for tablets etc. Trying to change the interface for desktops is an expensive nightmare for their biggest customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Intel i7 4770 processor, 16GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM and 1TB WD Black HDD with 8.1 installed.
    An SSD will certainly help. Do you know what motherboard you will be getting with this build? 16gb is quite a lot. Though without knowing what you're going to be doing with it, I would suggest 8gb. Could save a few dollars on that to put towards an SSD, which will be of far more benefit than the extra 8gb ram.

  49. #49
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foana View Post
    An SSD will certainly help. Do you know what motherboard you will be getting with this build? 16gb is quite a lot. Though without knowing what you're going to be doing with it, I would suggest 8gb. Could save a few dollars on that to put towards an SSD, which will be of far more benefit than the extra 8gb ram.
    As I said have placed the order, will stick with the WD HDD, not a money thing, just a personal decision.

    Full size ATX Motherboard (Socket 1150), I can use the extra RAM.

    As I said, I have the information I need so don't need to discuss further, thanks again to all who took the time to reply.
    Dimal likes this.



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