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Thread: OLED Tv issues - useful reference article

  1. #1
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    OLED Tv issues - useful reference article

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Came across a decent reference article I thought was worth sharing while going through the excercise of OLED v Qled Tv. There's lots of info online regarding OLED permanent image burn-in and firmware updates than dim screens after 1 min if static images are detected. The article linked below gives a decent overview and is a good start for researching the issues if you're considering an OLED Tv.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#2b34bf94363d
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Came across a decent reference article I thought was worth sharing while going through the excercise of OLED v Qled Tv. There's lots of info online regarding OLED permanent image burn-in and firmware updates than dim screens after 1 min if static images are detected. The article linked below gives a decent overview and is a good start for researching the issues if you're considering an OLED Tv.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#2b34bf94363d
    Morning CafeLotta.

    Seems to be a problem with the link, the article flashes up briefly then closes, posting the URL in the address bar brings up "page not found"

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Seems to be a problem with the link, the article flashes up briefly then closes, posting the URL in the address bar brings up "page not found"
    Link works for me (using Chrome on an Android tablet)

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Worked for me, Chrome on a Windows7 PC. A good read. 8k TVs are now being shown at CES in Las Vegas along with AI everything, including Cheese makers.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Problem my end, my ad blocker was nuking it, disabled, all good.

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    Zee
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonar View Post
    Worked for me, Chrome on a Windows7 PC. A good read. 8k TVs are now being shown at CES in Las Vegas along with AI everything, including Cheese makers.
    Oh yeay - a new standard to adopt before the old ones are fully adopted...

    Coming from an ISF/THX certified AV/automation business owner.

    OLED is great, so long as you don't play games with static images, or watch Fox 8 all day long.

    Oh, don't ever buy a curved screen, unless you like sitting in one very specific spot.

    Z...
    Last edited by Zee; 1 Week Ago at 10:38 PM.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    .......OLED is great, so long as you don't play games with static images, or watch Fox 8 all day long....
    .....or use it like the main TV in the house is normally used. (watching broadcast news with the breaking news banners at the bottom of screen, using the on-screen TV guide, watching movies with non 16:9 ratio and black bars top and bottom etc.) OLED might be great if you can afford a dedicated theatre room but I think I'll wait to see where microLED technology goes this year. Reading through Sony's recommendations for use to avoid OLED burn-in issues says it all for me.

    OLED TVs are usually the most expensive models in each manufacturer's range yet are very reminiscent of early plasma screens with their burn-in issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    .....or use it like the main TV in the house is normally used. (watching broadcast news with the breaking news banners at the bottom of screen, using the on-screen TV guide, watching movies with non 16:9 ratio and black bars top and bottom etc.) OLED might be great if you can afford a dedicated theatre room but I think I'll wait to see where microLED technology goes this year. Reading through Sony's recommendations for use to avoid OLED burn-in issues says it all for me.

    OLED TVs are usually the most expensive models in each manufacturer's range yet are very reminiscent of early plasma screens with their burn-in issues.
    Two major differences between plasma and OLED - the plasma TVs make a truly great room heater well before they blow. The OLEDs don't tend to blow and their power consumption is generally pretty low (compared to plasma anyway). One friends large lounge in the Colorado Rockies picked up a 4 degree Celsius temp boost after 5 hours of plasma TV watching just after sunset. Impressive in winter there, not so good in summer in Oz...

    My "smartphone" (top oxymoron of last year) has an OLED screen and it has no sign of burn-in after a couple of years of use. It is also by far the brightest, blackest and clearest screen I have owned so far - to the extent that I will probably buy a good OLED for home theatre when the prices come down. Like all new tech it may have a few side effects until it is either sorted or replaced by better tech. The U-LED and Q-LED technology are not even close in terms of viewing. You pays yer muny and yer takes yer choice.

    TampIt
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  9. #9
    Zee
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    .....or use it like the main TV in the house is normally used. (watching broadcast news with the breaking news banners at the bottom of screen, using the on-screen TV guide, watching movies with non 16:9 ratio and black bars top and bottom etc.) OLED might be great if you can afford a dedicated theatre room but I think I'll wait to see where microLED technology goes this year. Reading through Sony's recommendations for use to avoid OLED burn-in issues says it all for me.

    OLED TVs are usually the most expensive models in each manufacturer's range yet are very reminiscent of early plasma screens with their burn-in issues.
    I've got 5 Sony A1 installs out in the field - all used like regular TV's and no burn in issues. It would not surprise me, though, if some panels were more susceptible than others (even within a single model), this was something I did feel may have been something back in the plasma TV days. I still have a couple of clients with Pioneer Kuro TV's, which, I feel, have only been bettered by OLED tech.

    Z...

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    I've got 5 Sony A1 installs out in the field - all used like regular TV's and no burn in issues...
    Sony released a firmware update in September last year which created significant dimming issues for A1 and A8F owners. It masqueraded as a Dolby Vision update but created aggresive dimming when static images were detected on screen such as in news or sports broadcasts and games also. Googling Sony OLED dimming issues will show the large number of very unhappy owners who paid thousands for these sets . Many were happy until the firmware update but Sony is even trying to deny the issue and call it "normal" for the OLED sets. To add insult to injury the Dolby Vision update was sub-standard also.

    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Two major differences between plasma and OLED - the plasma TVs make a truly great room heater well before they blow. The OLEDs don't tend to blow and their power consumption is generally pretty low (compared to plasma anyway).
    My Panasonic V series Plasma has had heavy use for 8-9 years and is still going strong having had surge protection from new. Its power usage is in the same range as OLEDs of a similar size although my previous Panasonic G series used twice the power. It does heat-up in summer but does reduce heating bills in winter. I learnt years ago that buying a higher end model from a name brand will end up cheaper in the long run. Running Netflix movies through a Panasonic DMR-BWT955GL to my V series plasma gives a great picture in 1080p 60Hz (noticably better than 50Hz). HD Blu-rays through my Pioneer player are also very impressive.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 1 Week Ago at 09:14 AM. Reason: V series not Z
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  11. #11
    Zee
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Sony released a firmware update in September last year which created significant dimming issues for A1 and A8F owners. It masqueraded as a Dolby Vision update but created aggresive dimming when static images were detected on screen such as in news or sports broadcasts and games also. Googling Sony OLED dimming issues will show the large number of very unhappy owners who paid thousands for these sets . Many were happy until the firmware update but Sony is even trying to deny the issue and call it "normal" for the OLED sets. To add insult to injury the Dolby Vision update was sub-standard also.
    I disable all updates - they tend to break connections with automation systems, chances are, none of the TV's I installed are running that firmware - good to know though, I'll be doing a bit of research on this before I quote any more of them.

    Having said that - Sony are hardly the only ones with the annoying auto-dim features. I've got an ever growing list of TV's I won't touch due to not being able to turn off "dynamic contrast", and don't get me started on micro dimming - because nothing is more awesome than a hand sized halo around a few white pixels on a black background...

    Z...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Having said that - Sony are hardly the only ones with the annoying auto-dim features. I've got an ever growing list of TV's I won't touch due to not being able to turn off "dynamic contrast", and don't get me started on micro dimming - because nothing is more awesome than a hand sized halo around a few white pixels on a black background...
    LG also introduced the annoying over-zealous auto-dimming feature in firmware updates for their OLED Tvs. They manufacture the OLED panels that everyone uses so if they can't find a better solution to the burn-in issue that is inherent in OLED Tvs, then it seems the benefits that OLED offers can only be fully enjoyed by those using them in a very specific manner. The fact that Sony was dumping a load of AF8 OLEDs at around half price on their own website during Boxing Day sales seemed to send a signal. Once the word got out about the A1/A8F firmware update causing aggressive dimming issues to avoid burn-in and Sony calling this "normal", these models were all but dead on the market for anyone who did a bit of research before buying.

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/is-ole...-burning-down/

    https://www.oled-info.com/lg-oled
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 1 Week Ago at 09:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    LG also introduced the annoying over-zealous auto-dimming feature in firmware updates for their OLED Tvs. They manufacture the OLED panels that everyone uses so if they can't find a better solution to the burn-in issue that is inherent in OLED Tvs, then it seems the benefits that OLED offers can only be fully enjoyed by those using them in a very specific manner. The fact that Sony was dumping a load of AF8 OLEDs at around half price on their own website during Boxing Day sales seemed to send a signal. Once the word got out about the A1/A8F firmware update causing aggressive dimming issues to avoid burn-in and Sony calling this "normal", these models were all but dead on the market for anyone who did a bit of research before buying.

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/is-ole...-burning-down/

    https://www.oled-info.com/lg-oled
    Very handy info.

    Samsung are allegedly working on some now form of OLED tech - though most likely for mobile (flexible and also transparent versions).

    Their new micro LED tech may be the best bet for TV, with effectively 4k worth of individual LED chips, which would mean you could get true blacks by turning off the individual "pixels". I know they had a demo at CES last year, and they have a 75" on display at CES this year, but it's been a long time since I could justify turning up to all the trade shows. It probably won't be super slim unless it's built into the wall, though.

    Z...
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Their new micro LED tech may be the best bet for TV, with effectively 4k worth of individual LED chips, which would mean you could get true blacks by turning off the individual "pixels". I know they had a demo at CES last year, and they have a 75" on display at CES this year, but it's been a long time since I could justify turning up to all the trade shows. It probably won't be super slim unless it's built into the wall, though.
    Seems like the big name manufacturers will persist with OLED for 2019 except for Samsung, who still has QLED but will probably have a couple of expensive larger MicroLED screens for sale also. Seems like 2020 for consumer size MicroLED.

    There seems to also be some movement in MiniLED backlighting for the LCD/LED sector. This will seek to resolve the issue of "Blooming" in this type of TV due to the current backlighting technology which divides the screen into a grid with rectangular lit zones that can bleed light into adjoining zones, causing blooming. MiniLED is touted as giving more precise control of backlighting of LCD screens resulting in better picture quality. This tier which sits below OLED in terms of price/affordability would see the picture quality gap narrowing if MiniLED backlighting is introduced.

    TVs supporting both Dolby Vision and HDR10+ are becoming the desired standard for high end sets. OLED with its limited ability to achieve the required contrast range without burn-in doesn't do justice to either of these HDR standards when auto dimming is introduced. Samsungs QLED achieves a greater contrast range but does still have a slight issue with blooming and doesn't quite reach the motion handling or upscaling quality of Sony.

    Bottom line is that currently each technology has its strengths and weaknesses but I wouldn't be dropping thousands on an OLED that is purposely dimmed to avoid burn-in, losing its appeal as a HDR 4k set in my book. I'll be waiting until next year I think before looking at an upgrade. 8k is also on its way as well as HDMI 2.1 so for future proofing at the high end of the market, waiting for these to be widely implemented could be worthwhile.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 1 Week Ago at 08:43 AM.

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    Like you CafeLotta, I will be waiting. Unfortunately the Q-LEDs are nowhere in terms of contrast compared to the OLEDs this week... My 65" LED is barely worse than a Q-LED at 25% of the price - it is still pretty impressive at 4K / HDR until you look at the same movie on a mates OLED (sigh). The excellent is the enemy of the good...

    The article also points out their are actually two different OLED technologies. My phone is the tech LG is NOT using, so I may have to wait for that tech to migrate to larger sizes. Self evidently, my rarely used phone has an almost identical display 90+% of the time it is on - it has no sign of burning in (yet) and is still way, way better than the three upmarket 27" IPS screens I am looking at whilst typing this.

    Enjoy your TV, whatever it may be.

    TampIt
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    Zee
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Seems like the big name manufacturers will persist with OLED for 2019 except for Samsung, who still has QLED but will probably have a couple of expensive larger MicroLED screens for sale also. Seems like 2020 for consumer size MicroLED.

    There seems to also be some movement in MiniLED backlighting for the LCD/LED sector. This will seek to resolve the issue of "Blooming" in this type of TV due to the current backlighting technology which divides the screen into a grid with rectangular lit zones that can bleed light into adjoining zones, causing blooming. MiniLED is touted as giving more precise control of backlighting of LCD screens resulting in better picture quality. This tier which sits below OLED in terms of price/affordability would see the picture quality gap narrowing if MiniLED backlighting is introduced.

    TVs supporting both Dolby Vision and HDR10+ are becoming the desired standard for high end sets. OLED with its limited ability to achieve the required contrast range without burn-in doesn't do justice to either of these HDR standards when auto dimming is introduced. Samsungs QLED achieves a greater contrast range but does still have a slight issue with blooming and doesn't quite reach the motion handling or upscaling quality of Sony.

    Bottom line is that currently each technology has its strengths and weaknesses but I wouldn't be dropping thousands on an OLED that is purposely dimmed to avoid burn-in, losing its appeal as a HDR 4k set in my book. I'll be waiting until next year I think before looking at an upgrade. 8k is also on its way as well as HDMI 2.1 so for future proofing at the high end of the market, waiting for these to be widely implemented could be worthwhile.
    There is also the dual screen LCD tech (forgot what it was called) that Hisense has - a 1080P panel behind a 4k panel. the 1080P greyscale only, so helps controls the blacks, and, in theory, keeps the bloom down to 3 out of 4 pixels. A 4k x 4k version is clearly next...

    Z...

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    On a side note - self installed IQ4 on Monday (10mins for the swap and 1hour pfaffing to get 4k honored) and got to watch my first available 4k broadcast of yesterdays ODI on a Sony 75" LCD - WOW - just wow. No I do not work for Foxtel or Sony. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    My Panasonic V series Plasma has had heavy use for 8-9 years and is still going strong having had surge protection from new. Its power usage is in the same range as OLEDs of a similar size although my previous Panasonic G series used twice the power.
    Need to make a small correction re: power usage of OLED v Plasma. As a direct comparison between Panasonic Tv sets using "normal" mode, my 50" V series plasma is quoted at 154W and a 55" FZ series OLED at 119W, roughly 30% less. In my case I would also save power with an OLED by not having to use my PVR (31W in normal mode) to access online content. Overall 55% power saving when streaming online content as best as I can tell (No info if WiFi is always on in the OLED Tv.)

    It seems likely that it will be at least 2 years before domestic MicroLED Tvs will be available at a reasonable price and the likely bugs sorted out. All the current higher end TVs seem to have their strengths and weaknesses so after deciding what is most important for me now, I have to confess to buying a 55" Panasonic FZ1000 OLED. On a killer special ($2500) of about 60% the price of a Samsung Q9 QLED and Sony A9F, to me it seems the best option currently, even without Dolby Vision support. Panasonic doesn't seem to have anywhere near the complaints of Sony and LG with dimming or burn-in but no doubt would also be suseptible. Wouldn't recommend paying anywhere near full price for an OLED currently but there's likely to be continued heavy discounting through out the year.

    P.S.
    For anyone else going through the process of OLED or not and Panasonic v Sony v LG, this UK review swayed me in the end -
    https://www.avforums.com/review/pana...0-review.14474

    In the UK and Europe, the 55" & 65" Panasonic FZ1000 Tvs are known as FZ952/FZ950 which is confusing as here in Australia, the model below the FZ1000 is known as the FZ950. It doesn't have the Technics soundblade or better remotes which its namesake in the UK/Europe has and is known as the FZ802/FZ800 over there.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 5 Days Ago at 12:55 PM.

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    Good Buy!

    Luckily I am not in the market yet, however the next TV will be a 75" - if I can get one for $2500, consider it bought on sight...


    Enjoy your cuppa with a good movie.

    TampIt
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  20. #20
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Good Buy!

    Luckily I am not in the market yet, however the next TV will be a 75" - if I can get one for $2500, consider it bought on sight...


    Enjoy your cuppa with a good movie.

    TampIt
    I held off - for ages - upgrading my screen and was very tempted by the OLEDs if not for all the reasons mentioned above by CL I would have got one. Came across a 2017 75" 4k Sony that with all the discounts offered was retailing for $2,200 (originally 4,799) - just could not resist at that price and have no regrets. Less than 75" I now consider as a portable ;-)
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonar View Post
    Less than 75" I now consider as a portable ;-)
    Viewing distance v resolution is an interesting thing to contemplate. 55", 65" and 75" 4k Ultra HD Tvs all have the same resolution of 3840x2160 and there are recommendations for the ideal viewing distance of each. Personally, not having the issue of sitting a great distance from the TV, the 55" does the job without having to visually scan side to side of the screen while viewing. A matter of finding the balance between personal preference and the state of your eyesight I suppose!

    https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/what-is-the-resolution

    As a footnote for anyone also considering going through the upgrade process, newer sets also provide better picture processing and differing support for newer standards like HDR, HDR10+ and Dolby Vison. Easy access to online content like NetFlix and Amazon Prime which support these standards in varying degrees also comes into play and is still a developing thing. The bandwidth required for streaming content of this nature also comes into play in terms of the internet access plan you have and the download speed and data allowance.

    https://www.techradar.com/au/news/hd...of-dolbys-book
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 3 Days Ago at 12:09 PM.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Agree, find your ideal seating position for your floor layout and based around ideal screen (and speaker) position, google ideal viewing distances (it is subjective anyway), get the next size up or bigger or go to the shop and (if possible) test those distances to screen size recommendations... then get the next size up :-) or go for a projector which is a whole new subject.

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Just a heads-up for people that the 'Bay has 20% off on lots of stuff including Home Entertainment until 25 January 2019. You need to log-in to see the specific item's discount or click on the top banner to see the categories included. As usual its lots of stuff that needs to be moved with a few good buys in-between. Also as usual, buyer beware and verify prices outside of EvilBay.



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