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Thread: Chinese Communist Plot?

  1. #1
    OCD
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    Chinese Communist Plot?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    News flash, ACA (A Current Affair) has uncovered a conspiracy to buy up Australian baby formula and ship it offshore to China.
    Now, I'm no business genius but, isn't that a good thing? Whereas ACA sees negativity, I see a golden business opportunity for our downtrodden farmers. Or am I missing something?

  2. #2
    Senior Member speleomike's Avatar
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    This isn't a new issue. If you have a young baby and your wife or you can't source baby formula (as has been occurring for the last year or so) you might realise that it can be a problem. There is an amount exported that does not satisfy some markets and they will endeavour to use someone else's domestic market. The big retail chains have tried to use "shopper quotas" but that is difficult on person on the checkout. They should not be "police". The Govt is still in a quandary as to how to address this problem.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCD View Post
    Or am I missing something?
    Yep - You are mate...

    Mal.
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    Been happening for years. ACA is late. The problem is lack of local supply.

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    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Whilst generally aware of this issue, I have no real insight to it.
    It would be good if someone could put it into context.

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    OCD
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    Quote Originally Posted by speleomike View Post
    This isn't a new issue. If you have a young baby and your wife or you can't source baby formula (as has been occurring for the last year or so) you might realise that it can be a problem. There is an amount exported that does not satisfy some markets and they will endeavour to use someone else's domestic market. The big retail chains have tried to use "shopper quotas" but that is difficult on person on the checkout. They should not be "police". The Govt is still in a quandary as to how to address this problem.
    I share your concern about domestic supply, but surely legislation would be preferable to demonizing the Chinese for wanting our goods. After all, they are willing to pay top dollar for them.

    Ps never hear about the Chinese doing home invasions or car jackings. I'm for giving them a break.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    The problem is not the lack of a local supply, it's the lack of a trustworty local supply.

    The whole thing started years ago when testing showed the local products as having contaminates/materials other than as listed in them. The Chinese quickly turned to foreign products and just as quickly the government acted to limit said foreign products. Welcome to the black market world of baby formula, where individuals are the biggest smugglers, and the impact is being felt globally.


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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    It must be lucrative. An (alleged) organised crime ring was recently uncovered.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-...-ring/10730984

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    ... local supply ...
    Apologies for my ambiguity. You are talking about Chinese local supply. I meant Australian local supply affecting our ability to export more, hence the black market taking store supply from Australians who want it.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I have strong views on this subject which if expressed here would most certainly not be considered (in this day and age) to be politically correct, so will let our parliament express them for me.
    Suffice to say I consider the baby food racket is part and parcel of the subject matter discussed in the linked document.

    Chinese Organised Crime in Australia


    https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...aoc/report/c04
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    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    This has been going on for maybe 10yrs. Why haven't we built a factory to make more baby powder?

    We building factories to make lithium batteries, and mining more lithium. Investing in a tech that probably is at its peak now and probably going into decline with other emerging battery tech.
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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    Been happening for years. ACA is late. The problem is lack of local supply.
    Lack of local supply? Surely without some sort of legislation banning or at least limiting formula being shipped off overseas to be sold, that increasing local supply only feeds this roaring trade.

  13. #13
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCD View Post

    Ps never hear about the Chinese doing home invasions or car jackings. I'm for giving them a break.
    I dont see what this has to do with what you originally asked....

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    More than 20 years ago, Francis Fukuyama discussed much of how this occurs in an excellent book: Trust.

    At the risk of mentioning something that is on topic, it also explains why virtually all the coffee machines made in Italy are made in the North.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    Lack of local supply? Surely without some sort of legislation banning or at least limiting formula being shipped off overseas to be sold, that increasing local supply only feeds this roaring trade.
    I think feeding trade was on OCD's mind in the opening post.

  16. #16
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    OCD, the issue which ACA will be highlighting is when a store gets a delivery of baby formula, the store may have say a 4 tin limit, then 60 daigou descend and buy the store out. They do this to multiple stores in a day. Then local mothers can't find any formula and are naturally distressed. It is quite common in the area I live to see pictures or vids of these large groups purchasing, usually posted by annoyed other customers. Hard for mothers to compete for stock with these organised groups.

    Your comment about home invasions is about 25 years too late, Chinese were the main perpetrators on their own people (not implying any race is more criminal than any other). To be fair most of this style home invasion occurs in places like Sydney, as you need wealthy Chinese for this to happen.

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    OCD, some background articles on the issue of the organised groups:

    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...26328a0dce19bb

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...inues/10312334

    https://m.thechronicle.com.au/news/q...rmula/3208405/

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/parents-...la-bulk-buying


    Like Jackster, I am somewhat surprised we aren't just producing more to meet demand

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    This has been going on for maybe 10yrs. Why haven't we built a factory to make more baby powder?
    A bit unsporting of you to bring common sense into the argument. Next thing you know someone will come up with a workable solution. Then where will it all end?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    For goodness sake, all of this tap dancing around the perimeter, can no one see the elephant in the room.
    Population growth..jpg

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    For goodness sake, all of this tap dancing around the perimeter, can no one see the elephant in the room.
    Population growth..jpg
    If that big grey thing wasn't blocking my view I'd probably be able to see it.

    An interesting point of view on the powdered milk thing from a guy who has lived in China for a number of years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQm5FZMforg

    Probably not everyones cup of tea but he has a number of videos shot over a few years which give a different viewpoint to mainstream reporting of China.

    eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNNFccVgdiU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL46TjUaebs
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 11th February 2019 at 09:40 AM.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    If that big grey thing wasn't blocking my view I'd probably be able to see it.

    An interesting point of view on the powdered milk thing from a guy who has lived in China for a number of years -

    Probably not everyones cup of tea but he has a number of videos shot over a few years which give a different viewpoint to mainstream reporting of China.
    Yep, I've seen it first hand.

    The population is so vast that people are forced to live by their wits, it really is a dog eat dog society.

    Whats more in Australia the smuggling by Chinese happens in both directions, the people involved are either dishonest or stupid, and, I can assure you they are far from stupid.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    It was mentioned that this started in 2008. So 10yo issue!

    But yes, I (we) have no idea of the vastness of their population, and what that means.
    I recall reading that Chinese Valentine's (aug 28th) had online sales on only one site of teddy bears- millions of $$ trade. Such demand!

  23. #23
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post

    But yes, I (we) have no idea of the vastness of their population, and what that means.
    I certainly do, In 2019, China's population stands at 1.418 billion that's 1418,000,000.

    Its not about profits, its about sustainability.
    Last edited by Yelta; 11th February 2019 at 11:17 AM.

  24. #24
    OCD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    For goodness sake, all of this tap dancing around the perimeter, can no one see the elephant in the room.
    Population growth..jpg
    That's a relief. I thought I was the only one who thought overpopulation was a problem.
    And yet, when China had its one child policy the west condemned it as barbaric.

    Ps just googled it up, I think I've got agoraphobia.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Just out of interest, which country has the highest population density....China or the UK?

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    Wikipedia lists India at No 7, with nearly as great a population as China who came in at 88, behind Kiribati amongst 87 others. Japan is No 12.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Just out of interest, which country has the highest population density....China or the UK?
    Interesting question Barry, had not contemplated it, check out this link Countries by Population Density 2018 - StatisticsTimes.com

    Seems Monaco is the most densely populated, UK well down the list at 59.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Interesting question Barry, had not contemplated it, check out this link Countries by Population Density 2018 - StatisticsTimes.com

    Seems Monaco is the most densely populated, UK well down the list at 59.
    Sorry Yelta, my question was both rhetorical and a little facetious. On simple stats China is well down that same list (at 79). Population is certainly a big part of the story, but there's a lot more going on.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Just out of interest, which country has the highest population density....China or the UK?
    Wikipedia:
    United Kingdom ~ 272 people per square kilometre (ppsk)
    China ~ 145 ppsk
    Food for thought.

    PS least populous: Greenland @ 0.03 ppsk
    most populous: Macau @ 20,164 ppsk

    Ps 2 Australia sits @ 3 ppsk. Heaps of room for heaps more people. Oh s**t! I think my agoraphobia just flared up.
    Even though there were a few too many kangaroos for my liking, I miss my time on the Nullabor.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Could be of interest.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-15/asx-delists-six-chinese-companies-in-2018/10786062

    A record six Chinese companies were delisted from the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) last year, with controversial health firm Traditional Therapy Clinics the latest to be removed.
    Key points:


    • There have been no new listings of Chinese companies on the ASX since 2017
    • Experts urge investors to be cautious when considering Chinese companies on ASX
    • ASX tightens listing rules to help address issues with firms from emerging markets




    Figures from the ASX confirmed a total of nine Chinese companies have now been delisted over the past two years, mostly due to reporting and other governance issues.
    The delistings in 2018 came in the same year that no new Chinese companies listed on the ASX and a whole lot more that applied to list were rejected.
    "They promise the world, and they say they understand but when they actually get to list here things go wrong," Beer & Co. director Michael Beer said.



  31. #31
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    Same as their construction and mining. Promise to comply, and then do whatever they want and only fix what they get caught for.
    Mind you, that seems to be the ethos across the board.
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  32. #32
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    It isn't any different to the playground when you were a kid.
    There are the bullies who will intimidate you if they can. Sometimes you will have a bigger friend who will step in and confront the bullies until you find the wherewithall to do it yourself.
    If you only realised it, there were other kids who were being bullied too and if you all had had the insight to band together and the courage to stand your ground, you could have successfully confronted the bullies and they would have backed down.
    I was a union rep all my working life and stared down a lot of bully-bosses.
    It is no different on a national or international level. China is a bully and we need to have the gumption to say "we can do business but you need to show some respect for our rules the way we do with yours."
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