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Thread: Australians living beyond their means.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Australians living beyond their means.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    To outsiders we seem to be a nation of very affluent people, the truth is many of us are hocked to the eyeballs, it has to eventually end in tears.

    "Australians have the world's second-largest household debts. We know it, we worry about it, and there is increasing evidence it is changing our way of life."
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...-less/11608016
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  2. #2
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Tick, Tick, Tick.......

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    NJD
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    The difference seems to be we used to go without things until we could afford them but now it’s a get it then work out how to afford mentality . Tears are coming 100%
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  4. #4
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJD View Post
    The difference seems to be we used to go without things until we could afford them but now it’s a get it then work out how to afford mentality . Tears are coming 100%
    In a time where image building is everything for many people and an online profile based on perception rather then fact is becoming the norm, being able to actually afford what you buy plays no part.
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    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    As I understand it, the biggest portion of "household debt" is mortgage loans.
    I think this puts a slightly different slant on it as at least it is households endeavouring to pay off a tangible asset, as opposed to just conspicuous consumption.
    Those of us born in the 40s/50s have watched every generation take bigger loans for bigger and better houses with everything in them right from square 1.
    This creates pressures in relation to the security of jobs/incomes.
    Like their parents, both my early-Millennial kids have bought modest properties that they can easily afford on a single wage (even with doubled interest rates). The fact that most do not, shows a worrying approach to risk that will end in tears for many. Obviously there are mitigating factors for young people who feel that their lifestyle is tied to the capital cities.
    I had a relation crying to me about how tough it was for her kids to afford a house in the city. When I suggested they get a job in a Regional centre, I was told "Oh no, the good wages are in the cities". Well maybe you can't always have it both ways.
    We have never had a mortgage - we just 'saved-up' for our houses - yes, it did require sacrifice and self-discipline. Like most of our friends, we owe nothing, so there is someone out there making up for us with huge debt.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Credit Card Debt seems to get a regular mention.

    P.S. Not to mention the insatiable need to have a "Smart Phone" above all else which adds to the monthly financial pressures.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:49 PM. Reason: P.S. added.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    As I understand it, the biggest portion of "household debt" is mortgage loans.
    I think this puts a slightly different slant on it as at least it is households endeavouring to pay off a tangible asset, as opposed to just conspicuous consumption.
    Those of us born in the 40s/50s have watched every generation take bigger loans for bigger and better houses with everything in them right from square 1.
    This creates pressures in relation to the security of jobs/incomes.
    Like their parents, both my early-Millennial kids have bought modest properties that they can easily afford on a single wage (even with doubled interest rates). The fact that most do not, shows a worrying approach to risk that will end in tears for many. Obviously there are mitigating factors for young people who feel that their lifestyle is tied to the capital cities.
    I had a relation crying to me about how tough it was for her kids to afford a house in the city. When I suggested they get a job in a Regional centre, I was told "Oh no, the good wages are in the cities". Well maybe you can't always have it both ways.
    We have never had a mortgage - we just 'saved-up' for our houses - yes, it did require sacrifice and self-discipline. Like most of our friends, we owe nothing, so there is someone out there making up for us with huge debt.
    Some fair points Rocky, but property prices are a much larger multiple of typical wages these days (and part of the reason for that inflation in house prices is a ridiculous set of tax advantages to investment properties.....and it's rarely 'young' people who have driven that inflation....swings and roundabouts here). You'd be saving a long, long time to pay cash for a house in an Australian city, even if you really wanted to do that. There's nothing wrong with having some debt.....the question is how much, and how much do things have to change for you to not be able to service the debt.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that it's productive to an understanding of the issue to get into a discussion about fault/responsibility for 'current situations' .
    It tends to turn the discussion into a 'blame game' where different generations 'blame' each other for a situation.
    I think the law in relation to negative gearing has been more damaging than beneficial in the big picture, and has filled up good neighbourhoods with neglected rented properties tenented by people who don't give a rats about the property or neighbourhood.
    Governments are to blame for the ridiculous property values in capital cities. State governments have promoted the development of the capital cities by steadfastly failing to decentralise into regional areas. The result is that the regional areas have high unemployment rates and the cities have expensive housing and major transport problems.
    The problem is that the majority of politicians in a State legislature come from the cities and have a vested interest in promoting the development of cities. They aren't interested in the development of regional areas . If they were the placement of government agencies in regional ares would have increased not reduced.
    Housing is very affordable in regional areas but employment opportunities are limited as a direct result of government policy. We ALL need to be hammering the useless self-serving politicians that make these short sighted decisions.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I'm not sure that it's productive to an understanding of the issue to get into a discussion about fault/responsibility for 'current situations' .
    It tends to turn the discussion into a 'blame game' where different generations 'blame' each other for a situation.
    I think the law in relation to negative gearing has been more damaging than beneficial in the big picture, and has filled up good neighbourhoods with neglected rented properties tenented by people who don't give a rats about the property or neighbourhood.
    Governments are to blame for the ridiculous property values in capital cities. State governments have promoted the development of the capital cities by steadfastly failing to decentralise into regional areas. The result is that the regional areas have high unemployment rates and the cities have expensive housing and major transport problems.
    The problem is that the majority of politicians in a State legislature come from the cities and have a vested interest in promoting the development of cities. They aren't interested in the development of regional areas . If they were the placement of government agencies in regional ares would have increased not reduced.
    Housing is very affordable in regional areas but employment opportunities are limited as a direct result of government policy. We ALL need to be hammering the useless self-serving politicians that make these short sighted decisions.

    Absolutely Rocky. I'm not blaming anyone or any generation in particular. I was just responding to a post that made generalisations about young people today. Many of those generalisations are reasonable, but it is also worthwhile recognising that the world they face is a different one to what it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.

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    We need a very severe depression to bring everyone back to reality. Yes is it will hurt but necessary.

  11. #11
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Australis View Post
    We need a very severe depression to bring everyone back to reality. Yes is it will hurt but necessary.
    No we don't.

    We don't need to cut off an arm to make us appreciate our body--which essentially is what you are advocating.

    Go and read about the depression of the 1930s, and see why every government since has tried to avoid a repeat.

    It's not just a hurt...it's scorched earth devastation. It's humanity destroying.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    When I was a young bloke there were several different government agencies located in my regional city. They were good employers and established a synergy that tended to spin-off other support industries and businesses.
    As governments withdrew from involvement in provision of essential services and pushed more and more industries into the private sector unemployment in regional centres increased.
    At the State level we now we have two problems that did not exist previously - congested cities with inadequate public infrastructure and sky-high housing prices, and regional areas with high unemployment and unbalanced local economies suseptible to variable climate factors.
    The Federal government has pursued an immigration policy designed to pump up the economy through consumption without any recognition of the problems this creates at State and local levels in terms of the above factors.
    A lot of the politicians I see are probably decent enough people but seem to lack any understanding of the big picture and what is necessary to build national economic strength by first creating strong local economies where communities can establish stable consumption patterns based on viable long-term industries.
    Here in regional Queensland, there is plenty of land and plenty of sensibly-priced housing but a shortage of employment opportunities to attract young workers who would find a good quality of life if only they were able to make the move.
    Dimal, Paolo, doobs and 1 others like this.

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    The great depression brought about a reality check, humanity survived. It will come again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Australis View Post
    The great depression brought about a reality check, humanity survived. It will come again.
    No it didn’t unless YOU lived through it you don’t really know. There is no documented evidence promulgated by any political persuasion that indicates a depression to the level of the 1930’s is a good thing. Quite the opposite.
    It crushes everything and everyone that values democracy and the economic freedom we have enjoyed since the 1950’s.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    It is always tempting to wish to bring reality crashing down on people who have been imprudent or unwise but of course the message is often lost on them in the face of their personal disaster and there are usually major repercussions for most of the rest of society too, the majority of whom have done nothing wrong. The people who have been responsible for the disaster are usually the ones best insulated from the worst of the impacts.
    I wonder how many of the stockbrokers, investment bankers, fund managers and bureaucrats who were responsible for the GFC are living on welfare - none I expect. I also wonder how many of the criminally negligent people who allowed it to happen are in gaol. Same number, I think.
    If you are rich you might weather a depression but for most people it would be pretty devastating.
    Dimal, Javaphile, Sullo and 2 others like this.



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