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Thread: Halloween Has Us Tricked

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Halloween Has Us Tricked

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    It's been creeping in for years, but now that the shopping centre shops have joined in with displays of ghoulish witches you can't hold back the tide any longer. (reminds me of how mother's day got started --by department stores with an eye on the money potential)

    We never have had "trick or treat" here in Australia. We do however see references in American TV shows. And now that the world is just one global media kids here think that what goes on there must or should obviously be going on here.

    It's cultural imperialism.

    So what do we do tonight when these kids come a-knocking?

    Tell them Halloween is an American and European tradition corrupted from all souls day and that we don't follow it here and therefore go home you naive little boy/girl?

    Or throw in the towel and hand over the teeth-decaying lollies?

    I don't know.
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    In our suburb things are more organised than that. Nobody knocks on our door because we don't have a "Halloween marker" on the door or front gate. Our friends with kids down the road only visit houses that are pre-organised as 'safe'. If I bought any tooth rotting candy in advance I would be eating it myself later.

    Around ten years ago we had a random trick-or-treat knock but that's never happened again.

    I agree with you "leave Halloween to the people it means something to" but apparently it means something to kids here. Ie candy.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Now I know I really am out of the loop --maybe because my kids are old enough to have their own kids. Who organises these things...safe houses, halloween markers at the gate. First I've heard of all that.

    So, if my house doesn't have these markers, no-one comes?

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Halloween! BAH HUMBUG, an American tradition being foisted on us by money grabbing retailers, it's bullsh*t, has absolutely nothing to do with our culture.
    Bah Humbug.jpg
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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Maybe a sign saying "triple espresso treats for all small children who visit this home!"

    Might have lolly-wired children's parents thinking twice
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Further to my previous thread.

    Just stumbled across this, as I said, all about money.

    Americans spend twice as much on Halloween as on their national parks. It is consumerism gone mad

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...-pets/11652796
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  7. #7
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Some argue that we should embrace the customs of multi-culturalism. However, seeing how almost no Americans live here, and how our biggest migrant intake by fair is from India, followed by China...where Halloween means nothing, I think that argument is destroyed.
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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    hey now. disrupting years of something else happening and coming in and changing everything is how this great country came to be, dammit!

    plus halloween is actually fun.
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    Member IrisGanache's Avatar
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    I'm not really a fan myself.

    The guy across the road does a haunted house/graveyard/maze every year which he puts a hell of a lot of effort into and it attracts thousands of people by the time it closes. My eldest (21) helps out with that and he enjoys it.

    My youngest (7) doesn't really know what it is all about I don't think.

    We do get a few door knockers because there are hundereds of people in the street while the house across the road is open.


    Christmas though I do love.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Yep! loads of fun, we've already seen sick types loading strawberries with needles in Australia, these same people would think nothing of doing similar to kids who come knocking on the door.

    People are paranoid about child molesters, won't allow people to photograph their kids and so on, yet these same parents are O.K. with their kids knocking on the doors of strangers and begging for handouts.

    Halloween's longest-running tradition? Parents inspecting sweets for drugs, razor blades and terrorist codes


    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...-fear/11652208
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  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Plenty of great Aussie traditions to celebrate that have nothing to do with American consumerism.
    Fun for you? Great, but I've never been a sheep....

    Mal.
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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Cherry picking (brilliant!) which parts of which cultures are OK to adopt and accept and which are not may risk accusations of double standards. Coffee originated in Ethiopia not Echuca (need to double check? Espresso is from Italy not Ipswich - must confirm :-). Enjoy Halloween and all the benefits that real person social exchanges can bring - or don't. What other day of the year can you knock on all of your neighbors doors and interact? For Halloween haters it's an opportunity missed to subtlety (phwa!) spruik your version of the world to the young and uninitiated too!
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    When my kids where young every halloween night they would hide and any trick or treaters coming to the house would get sprayed with the hose of cause I was the responsible parent and made shore they didn't drown the the lollie beggars

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Some fine arguments being advanced here.
    I think there is a big difference between traditions that are adopted through an evolutionary process and those that are foisted for commercial gain or mass media.

    Espresso was brought to us courtesy of hundreds of thousands of European migrants, not by us watching an Italian sit com with mamma and papa and the children at breakfast. "Gee--why can't we do that?"

    The social interaction -- yes, that is sorely lacking.

    We have no community. We have no community spirit. Anyone who tells you these heartless suburbs are a community is living in their own fantasy utopia.

    I was in Italy a few months ago and was astounded how in a city of almost 3000 people EVERYONE knew everyone by face and by name, how you'd be sitting outside at night having an espresso and people would drop by and sit down uninvited and share one with you. How at 10 PM school kids would go running out of their homes en mass and play in the streets until 1 AM in absolute safety (school holiday time).

    Here-- I know what my immediate neighbours to the left and right of my house look like -- the others no idea.

    I doubt whether Halloween is going to change any of that though .....
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  15. #15
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Each to their own...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    I think the biggest push back here is being dragged into the event against your will.
    Basically, if people aren't interested in it, they don't want the knocks on the door.

    Some years ago I worked for a retailer and suggested they might want to position themselves in this market.
    The primary thing I thought they could drive was the participation marker. A cheapish sign that could be put near the front door to indicate your house was participating in Halloween. Probably $3 worth that should last people a number of years (given that it would only be outside for ~1 day per year).

    Apparently such things do exist and there are other ways of indicating that you are a participating house, but it's not a consistent and clear message.
    I still think the market is ripe for one group to take this on in early October with an advertising campaign to be the go to place for Halloween (for those who are interested).

    One of the supermarkets could offer a 'free' sign with $20 of participating products purchased.

    Personally, I'm not a real fan of it, but if someone does knock on the door, it's not too hard to politely say "Sorry we don't do Halloween". If it happens a lot, just stick a note to the doorbell for the night.
    The concept of having a 'trick' played on you for not giving out treats is not something that is very likely to happen here.

    Whilst there are many things worth getting worked up about, I don't think this is one of them

    Brett.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    What ever happened to "don't take lollies from Strangers"? With the vast array of crazies out there do people really want to take the chance that what the kids are receiving is truly safe. Needles in Strawberries from the Supermarket was unthinkable until recent times.

    Modern day Halloween in Australia is just another attempted cash grab by retailers driven by greed, not any cultural sensitivity.

    Might be fun for some but doesn't have any relevance or place in Australia. Another bad example of cultural appropriation.

    PS When did Lollies become Candy?
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  18. #18
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    CafeLotta, I was going to let the candy thing slip by!
    But it is an example of the cultural appropriation or imperialism as I call it.

    In the same way that we now apparently watch a movie instead of a film. In the same way supermarkets now sell cookies. Next we'll be walking on the sidewalk, going downtown instead of the city, drinking Americanos, rooting for our teams, watching trees drop leaves in fall, and wearing tuxedos.

    Were these words introduced to us by our next door neighbours from Illinois New York and Texas? No, because they don't live here. We got them by watching television.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    I think the biggest push back here is being dragged into the event against your will.
    Basically, if people aren't interested in it, they don't want the knocks on the door.
    I remember a couple of years back when this Halloween in Australia crap started, I answered a knock at the door one evening and found a little kid standing there saying "Trick or Treat!"

    It caught me totally off guard and I unfortunately answered "Sorry I don't have anything I can give you, Halloween is an American thing, not Australian." The look on the kid's face said it all not to mention the rather displeased parent. Hated being put in that position.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Some fine arguments being advanced here.
    I think there is a big difference between traditions that are adopted through an evolutionary process and those that are foisted for commercial gain or mass media.

    Espresso was brought to us courtesy of hundreds of thousands of European migrants, not by us watching an Italian sit com with mamma and papa and the children at breakfast. "Gee--why can't we do that?"

    The social interaction -- yes, that is sorely lacking.

    We have no community. We have no community spirit. Anyone who tells you these heartless suburbs are a community is living in their own fantasy utopia.

    I was in Italy a few months ago and was astounded how in a city of almost 3000 people EVERYONE knew everyone by face and by name, how you'd be sitting outside at night having an espresso and people would drop by and sit down uninvited and share one with you. How at 10 PM school kids would go running out of their homes en mass and play in the streets until 1 AM in absolute safety (school holiday time).

    Here-- I know what my immediate neighbours to the left and right of my house look like -- the others no idea.

    I doubt whether Halloween is going to change any of that though .....
    Good post Robusto, I like your train of thought.
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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Christians appropriated a Celtic seasonal festival and then called it All Saints (Hallows) Day to remember the death of Saints. Commercialization (note the z not s as per spell checker) of culturally significant days or events is hardly a new phenomena and helps to export that culture. We should ban the export of Vegemite to the US, that'll teach em - and no more trying to export the AFL to Europe and America.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Noonar, "s" is correct. "z" is the American way.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    I was in Italy a few months ago and was astounded how in a city of almost 3000 people EVERYONE knew everyone by face and by name, how you'd be sitting outside at night having an espresso and people would drop by and sit down uninvited and share one with you. How at 10 PM school kids would go running out of their homes en mass and play in the streets until 1 AM in absolute safety (school holiday time).
    This section of your post brought a smile and vivid images to mind. That is living a quality life. Genuine community and family spirit in action.

    Agree with the other sentiments also. Too many have forgotten how to live an honest real life face to face, having been indoctrinated into a synthetic online reality which seems to follow them out into the physical world. Shallow, Judgmental, often with no respect for others. Very sad.
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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Thankz Robusto.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonar View Post
    Christians appropriated a Celtic seasonal festival and then called it All Saints (Hallows) Day to remember the death of Saints. Commercialization (note the z not s as per spell checker) of culturally significant days or events is hardly a new phenomena and helps to export that culture. We should ban the export of Vegemite to the US, that'll teach em - and no more trying to export the AFL to Europe and America.
    I haven't had anyone dressed up as a Vegemite Jar knocking on my door trying to push it on me.

    Any Americanised text or corrections that are suggested can easily be dealt with by right clicking on the underlined word and adding ("Add to Dictionary") the preferred Australian(English) spelling. It won't get corrected or underlined again. One of my favorite pass-times.
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  26. #26
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    BTW Nats are leading Astros 3-2 in a come back from 0-2, in the bottom of the 7th, in the last game in the World Series. :-)

  27. #27
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Yeah, my late mother was of the face-to-face world. God bless her, she believed she should pay bills face to face at the post office, and on the due date...because if you did it by computer or by phone the person at the other end, whom of course knew who you were, could forget you paid of had paid.

    A stranger unfortunately is a non-entity to us. We look past them. Never talk to them. Never engage them. It is so much easier to disrespect, beat up, kill, steal from a non-entity than someone we have known all our lives.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonar View Post
    BTW Nats are leading Astros 3-2 in a come back from 0-2, in the bottom of the 7th, in the last game in the World Series. :-)
    ..................................https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
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  29. #29
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    ..................................https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
    I love cricket too.
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    Coffee Nut fg1972's Avatar
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    When I grew up it was something I knew about only because of TV but we never participated or was aware of anyone else participating as it was an American thing. Over the last few years Iíve definitely noticed more and more families putting that crap all over their house so the kids know which houses are doing it.
    Now with young kids myself, Iíve never encouraged it because I donít agree with celebrating something that has nothing to do with Australia but the fact that some of their friends do it makes it harder for us as parents. Up until now, my kids havenít been interested but this year, my younger son wants to go with his friends and the parents but god damn holy cow itís not going me going down the sidewalk, my wife will have to go. At this rate, weíll soon be celebrating Thanksgiving and Fourth of July.
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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Yep, fg1972 -- we're already doing the black Friday sales. But I'd keep off the sidewalk if I were you
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  32. #32
    OCD
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    ...It is so much easier to disrespect, beat up, kill, steal from a non-entity than someone we have known all our lives.
    Counterintuitive, I know, but, only around 15% (give or take) of murders are committed by strangers.

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Halloween Has Us Tricked

    Quote Originally Posted by OCD View Post
    Counterintuitive, I know, but, only around 15% (give or take) of murders are committed by strangers.
    yup. if youíre murdered, statistically speaking, 75% chance that you knew the person. people arenít as f**ked as you think. or actually, theyíre more f**ked than what you think. depends if you think itís worse to kill your partner or a random stranger. *shrug* https://www.crimestats.aic.gov.au/NH...tsJurisdiction

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    I typically find that give the youngsters a few QuickEze or Mylanta tablets puts them off for a few years.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fg1972 View Post
    At this rate, we’ll soon be celebrating Thanksgiving and Fourth of July.
    We're already inundated with wanna be Kardashians wandering the City Streets so why not fully embrace the American experience? Uggghhh.
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    Chocolate coated brussel sprouts work well
    brsp.jpeg
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    Member IrisGanache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    I typically find that give the youngsters a few QuickEze or Mylanta tablets puts them off for a few years.

    I shouldn't laugh but baa haa haa, that is hilarious.

    We just had our first knocker, still dressed in school uniform.
    I politely said I had nothing and told him to have a good night.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Chocolate coated brussel sprouts work well
    brsp.jpeg
    Now, that's just cruel...

    Mal.
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  39. #39
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    When I was a young bloke, my siblings and I pretty well knew and conversed with most households within about a couple mile radius of our house. Kids from everywhere took part in local mixed team sports in someone's back yard, went to local sports fields, picture theatres, swimming pools - you name it.

    Doesn't seem to be much of that happening these days...

    Mal.

  40. #40
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    strange thing to joke about given the mention of needles in strawberries above...

  41. #41
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    While we're here, may as well give another import a mention: Valentine's Day. I remember how this not so much crept in but flooded in around 1981 when the then Melbourne Sun published a few pages of paid -for notices.

    The Sun laughed all the way to the bank and the guillables are still being reeled in.
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    Member IrisGanache's Avatar
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  43. #43
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Why am I not surprised.
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    I never understand, why don't parents look after their kids so that they don't have to knock on their neighbors doors for treats? We load up with chocolates and if the poor neglected neighbours kids come knocking we help them out.

    Btw how things have changed
    Trick or treat.jpg
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  45. #45
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    A friend told me, whoi used to live in an area where getting hrs of door knocks happened, he got annoyed even with signs on his door, sorry no halloweeen,
    so my friend said,

    you make toffee apples, but have a memory lapse mid apple toffee process accidently grab the onions instead of apples,

    finish them, wrap them, put them out on a tray for all an sundry to grab, with a small sign saying,
    sorry we don't do Halloween but heres some surprise toffee apples....

    guaranteed to be a quiet one next year

  46. #46
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Whilst I have loudly trumpeted my dislike of the insidious way American traditions are rapidly being taken up in Australia, I have a confession to make, my two grand kids, 8 and 11 years old went trick or treating last night.

    Reason being the family has only recently returned to Oz after spending 7 years in the US, the kids are well and truly indoctrinated into the American way, so there was the expectation that Halloween would be observed, and I imagine the family will also observe Independence Day as well as Thanks Giving, as others have commented, things change.

  47. #47
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Unfortunately another Halloween incident. Child ingests prescription drugs.

    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...ating-c-534560

  48. #48
    Member IrisGanache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Unfortunately another Halloween incident. Child ingests prescription drugs.

    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...ating-c-534560
    I read that one too late last night.

    Myself I wouldn't risk it, the risk is probably small but it isn't one I am prepared to take.

  49. #49
    Member IrisGanache's Avatar
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    horbland 2019.JPG


    This was the view from our security camera around 8 pm last night.
    It was like this until 11.00

  50. #50
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    Wow that is busy Iris!

    We had a pretty tame one eldest 13 went to a friends and did Halloween. Managed to bribe the youngest with lollies to stay home and watch Men In Black. Our suburb is out in the burbs and if you don't put an outside light on with decorations you get left alone. Not a single knock on the door.

    With the need for kids to be fit in with their peers sometimes it is easier to allow them to be involved. I am not a big fan of US culture but they seem to have fun.



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