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Thread: Coronavirus COVID-19 - spooky or just a slow news week?

  1. #101
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    The good news is the slope of the total cases graph is starting to decrease.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Big difference in hygiene standards between mainland China and Western countries. The exodus out of China when people realised what was happening has lead to exposures across the globe. Better hygiene standards and much earlier intervention in the West will hopefully severely limit infection rates. The fact that numerous countries are setting up quarantine facilities indicates that it is a threat to be taken seriously. Infected Mainland Chinese fleeing the country with no regard or understanding of the seriousness of what they were doing is the reason so many people are now worried (with good reason).
    My fear is poor monitoring of cases. It takes only one country especially in our area like Indonesia to not do their job.

    If ALL countries do their job then it will be contained, most likely. If not then it won't be, it will bounce back and forth across different countries until it becomes endemic everywhere as we can't possibly isolate Australia from the outside world.

    China now is doing a great job even if to start with they dropped the ball. Unfortunately it has required drastic action with a massive economic impact for China and knock on effects for us.

    Churchill once said 'there is nothing to fear but fear itself'...probably then made his handkerchief dance by blowing a green boogie into it
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    Only a country like China can impose the controls that are necessary to contain and diminish this outbreak. They seem to be very committed. They have a huge amount to lose.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryM View Post
    Only a country like China can impose the controls that are necessary to contain and diminish this outbreak. They seem to be very committed. They have a huge amount to lose.
    That is largely true, but it is also only a country like China that creates an environment where everyone was too scared to tell the emperor that he had no clothes on until the epidemic could no longer be denied. It's a tricky one. I do share wattgn's concerns about the seriousness with which countries like Indonesia appear to take this (though do appreciate that running that dispersed and diverse country is challenging).
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    You see there are now 136 cases, 66 announced today on the Diamond Princess with four Australians infected.

    If any doubt exists about how contagious this virus is, that should give pause for thought. I hope experts are using it as a learning experience and measuring and monitoring everything they can.

    They have their own floating laboratory...maybe more like a floating petri dish at the moment...oh dear

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryM View Post
    Only a country like China can impose the controls that are necessary to contain and diminish this outbreak. They seem to be very committed. They have a huge amount to lose.
    I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that if the WHO (World Health Organisation) declared "Global Pandemic" status rather than the current status of "Global Emergency", things could change quite drastically. They even have guidelines for this sort of thing - https://www.who.int/influenza/resour...tProtOct15.pdf

    This document contains this paragraph -

    "Countries are strongly encouraged to develop and integrate containment planning into their national pandemic influenza preparedness plans. Table-top and other exercises can be used to test the response capabilities and operational plans and procedures necessary to mount a containment operation. Advanced planning can be used to strengthen fundamental capacities within countries."

    Coincidentally (or not), on October 18 2019 an exercise called "Event 201" was held in New York - The Event 201 scenario | A pandemic tabletop exercise

  7. #107
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    Sharemarkets all over the world generally green today, they don't seem worried.
    Last edited by robusto; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:23 PM. Reason: autocorrect turned sharemarkets into supermarkets

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Sharemarkets all over the world generally green today, they don't seem worried.
    Catastrophe for some, business opportunity for others.

    Ps anyone want to buy 20 paper face masks. A steal at only $500.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Sharemarkets all over the world generally green today, they don't seem worried.
    It hasn't been declared a Pandemic yet. The stock market will react if it breaks out in a country outside China. At that stage, WHO would declare a Pandemic.

    China is working hard but may not be able to contain it. What happened in China would be mirrored elsewhere if it gets out.

    6000 of the cases are serious and hospitalized taking lots of resources.

    I said to my wife, if this gets out it will cause mayhem.

    The experts are worried as a Pandemic is likely and they know that they still have a lot to learn about the behaviour of this virus.

    Ian Mackay of UQ is worried what will happen when travel bans to China expire. I don't know if the government can extend them indefinitely but they may need to.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    You see there are now 136 cases, 66 announced today on the Diamond Princess with four Australians infected.

    If any doubt exists about how contagious this virus is, that should give pause for thought. I hope experts are using it as a learning experience and measuring and monitoring everything they can.

    They have their own floating laboratory...maybe more like a floating petri dish at the moment...oh dear
    It should be a really good resource to understand the who/what/why transmission. I've not been on a cruise but I expect the long "sneeze bar" food serveries which love to share gastro and other nasties would be the first place fingers are pointed.

    136 infected from 3700 on board-- I'm surprised it's that low in that close quarter, sharing environment.

    It would be a long couple of weeks locked in a cabin and if they keep finding new cases then I guess the two week count starts again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    It should be a really good resource to understand the who/what/why transmission. I've not been on a cruise but I expect the long "sneeze bar" food serveries which love to share gastro and other nasties would be the first place fingers are pointed.

    136 infected from 3700 on board-- I'm surprised it's that low in that close quarter, sharing environment.

    It would be a long couple of weeks locked in a cabin and if they keep finding new cases then I guess the two week count starts again?
    I suppose one day a book and a mini series will come out called the Diamond Princess and for the first time it won't be about the Royals.

    The incubation period can be up to two weeks so the question is whether the new cases were before strict confinement was executed. Unfortunately there is a fear factor here as people don't know and they worry it can be carried through the ventilation. Authorities think not...but WHO knows. In fact even WHO doesn't know. That guy f... probably does know, him and God maybe.

    The crew sleep four to a room and that hasn't changed and they live in fear more than the passengers as they mix and they have to be active moving about the ship.

    It is a question of whether it is a quarantine ship or a petri dish ship. Are people going to be infected and die because they are on the ship? It may be those most at risk are the crew, not the passengers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    136 infected from 3700 on board-- I'm surprised it's that low in that close quarter, sharing environment.
    Hereís the concerning part. That 136 represents 1 in every 3 passengers that they have tested so far.

    They donít have enough test kits and manpower to test all 3700.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    You see there are now 136 cases, 66 announced today on the Diamond Princess with four Australians infected.

    If any doubt exists about how contagious this virus is, that should give pause for thought. I hope experts are using it as a learning experience and measuring and monitoring everything they can.

    They have their own floating laboratory...maybe more like a floating petri dish at the moment...oh dear

    Sounds like the perfect quarantine setup.

  14. #114
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    Another thing that's being mentioned is the break in supply chains for Chinese manufactured goods due to widespread quarantines and industry shut downs. I remember thinking years ago that Global over-reliance on China for manufacturing was a really, really bad idea. The greed of companies seeking maximum profits with no regard for national security is a travesty of the highest order. Maybe this will be the reality check that was needed albeit at an extreme cost.

    The US dependence on China for pharmaceuticals - https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-dependen...products-china
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Another thing that's being mentioned is the break in supply chains for Chinese manufactured goods due to widespread quarantines and industry shut downs. I remember thinking years ago that Global over-reliance on China for manufacturing was a really, really bad idea. The greed of companies seeking maximum profits with no regard for national security is a travesty of the highest order. Maybe this will be the reality check that was needed albeit at an extreme cost.

    The US dependence on China for pharmaceuticals - https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-dependen...products-china
    It is impossible for one country to either manufacture everything or have the minerals to do everything that is needed to manufacture. Oil is another dependency on energy in many countries. If the U.S. tried to manufacture pharmaceuticals, prices no doubt would go up a lot. Likewise if barriers are put up in any country to limit dependence on other countries, it would kill exports and inflate local prices due to lack of competition.

    I think, think bigger. Lots of dependencies and inter-dependencies of all sorts.

    WHO said that this virus could cause much worse issues for countries than terrorism did. And what does terrorism do...kills a few people but terrorizes many, forcing draconian and often inappropriate action by governments.
    Last edited by wattgn; 1 Week Ago at 02:07 PM.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Here’s the concerning part. That 136 represents 1 in every 3 passengers that they have tested so far.

    They don’t have enough test kits and manpower to test all 3700.
    but didn’t they only test those that had symptoms or close contact to those confirmed? Thus it’s pretty reasonable. I wish they would have tested everyone ASAP though, seems like a great chance to confirm any asymptomatic cases and get some reliable percentages nailed down. Also, I’m pretty sure the crew is also confined but haven’t been able to verify it 100% yet. If the crew is having to actually serve and work through all this they should take legal action, totally outrageous if true.

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    Another 40 more cases on the cruise ship today, including some crew, and even a shore based quarantine officer who went aboard has been infected.

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    "The median incubation period was 3.0 days (range, 0 to 24.0 days)

    from:
    Clinical characteristics of 2019 novel coronavirus infection in China
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.20020974v1

    Ouch, those in 14 day lockdown might get another 10 days added or maybe they will be "released" in 14 days and could still develop the virus up to 10 days later.

    Oops!

  19. #119
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    The first batch that returned to the US and were quarantined for 14 days were just released yesterday to much fanfare.


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  20. #120
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    Announcement by the WHO that the Wuhan Novel-Coronavirus is now officially known as COVID-19 - https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1227248333871173632?s=20

    This is to distinguish it from any number of the other Coronavirus family members such as SARS, MERS or even ones that are no worse that the common Flu.

    https://www.livescience.com/what-are-coronaviruses.html

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    I see Hubei province are releasing numbers for COVID-19 based on 'clinical diagnosis'. This means either 'where are the virus testing kits' or 'why bother we know what it is'.

    Another 15,000 for the day.

    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...pert-opinions/

    It isn't looking good but it seems we will know a lot more over the next few weeks. The number of cases one expert estimated to be 50k per day in China and increasing. The cases they catch are the serious ones requiring hospitalisation.

    It is pretty unlikely to be contained, general feeling and the health burden, although unknown is likely to be high so the Australian government and others have to prepare their health systems urgently.

  22. #122
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    No inaction in CN.

    https://twitter.com/LaloDagach/statu...25499949600775

    ...although I have no idea what they are spraying.

    Also see the Donald Trump video further down (in the above link).

    "Trump on coronavirus: "A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat. As the heat comes in. Typically that will go away in April. We're in great shape, though."

    So nothing to see here, you lot are just getting in a tizz over a couple of sniffles
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    No inaction in CN.

    https://twitter.com/LaloDagach/statu...25499949600775

    ...although I have no idea what they are spraying.

    Also see the Donald Trump video further down (in the above link).

    "Trump on coronavirus: "A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat. As the heat comes in. Typically that will go away in April. We're in great shape, though."

    So nothing to see here, you lot are just getting in a tizz over a couple of sniffles



    Cockroaches Andy- they’re spraying for cockroaches
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  24. #124
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    ...although I have no idea what they are spraying.
    Most reports I've seen are reporting the spray as bleach but I have seen a few where it was identified as a mix of water and alcohol.

    "Trump on coronavirus: "A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat. As the heat comes in. Typically that will go away in April. We're in great shape, though."
    Trump has stated it was Xi who told him about the heat/April thing.


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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    ...although I have no idea what they are spraying.
    Probably something along the lines of this stuff, most likely...

    Mal.

    Quatenary Cleaner.JPG Quatenary Cleaner-2.JPG
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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    . If the U.S. tried to manufacture pharmaceuticals, prices no doubt would go up a lot. Likewise if barriers are put up in any country to limit dependence on other countries, it would kill exports and inflate local prices due to lack of competition.
    Unfortunately with the way the US system is set up it has nothing at all to do with manufacturing cost most of the time. They simply look at how high a price can they charge based on how life critical a drug is and number of people to determine where the maximum profit margins lie. Thus, if a drug cost 3 cents to manufacture they may well charge $50,000 dollars. With margins like they have here I would be real surprised if the difference in manufacturing costs were particularly significant in most cases.

    Take a regular doctor visit or even a dentist visit. In most cases if you don't have a flat rate to pay via your insurance then when you ask for a detailed bill of expenses they will say, "we can give you a break down of the specific code of each event that you will be charged with, but we can not tell you what any code cost, you just have to wait for the bill." Thus, there is no competition over here since there is no way to know what anything actually cost until after when suddenly it becomes extremely transparent that you owe x amount and here is the detailed bill showing what each code costs. Which runs over into the pharmaceutical industry as well.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by day View Post
    Unfortunately with the way the US system is set up it has nothing at all to do with manufacturing cost most of the time. They simply look at how high a price can they charge based on how life critical a drug is and number of people to determine where the maximum profit margins lie. Thus, if a drug cost 3 cents to manufacture they may well charge $50,000 dollars. With margins like they have here I would be real surprised if the difference in manufacturing costs were particularly significant in most cases.
    Pretty blinkered view day, you totally disregard developmental costs, these are the biggest component of new drugs, they take years of research, development and trials before they are released on the market.

    Whilst I agree that once up and running production costs in many cases are probably quite low, bear in mind drug companies are not charities, they exist to make a profit, recouping developmental cost is part of the process, usually as time passes if the product is successful and gains wide acceptance generic manufacturers enter the market and prices drop dramatically.
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  28. #128
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    Another perspective.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-14/when-quarantine-during-the-spanish-flu-pandemic-became-a-party/11958724

    Influenza pandemic killed 540 South Australians in 1919



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    It is great to see no new cases outside of China today.

    What it means won't be clear for a while yet.

    How long can we maintain travel bans?

    If we get cases unrelated to travel that is the transition to a situation in Australia where everyone freaks out...

  30. #130
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    Travel bans should stay until it's really clear what is being dealt with. Once the genie gets out of the bottle there's no putting it back in. Now is not the time for complacency.

    The local media is throwing around the racist card again re: people staying away from Chinese businesses forcing some to temporarily close. Driving through the local Chinese dominated shopping strip my observation was that there was a distinct lack of Chinese faces on the street rather than others. They know how serious the problem is back home. It's the shopping strip where the first Victorian case of COVID-19 was found to have frequented a restaurant on Australia Day I think it was. Being cautious isn't being Racist especially when it's known that many mainland Chinese left the country without any form of screening or quarantine once it was clear that the Government was going to introduce lock-downs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwJ5thwr4C8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Travel bans should stay until it's really clear what is being dealt with. Once the genie gets out of the bottle there's no putting it back in. Now is not the time for complacency.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwJ5thwr4C8
    The travel ban is very damaging to the economy...ours as well as China. It is an open question on how long. Maybe we first need to see a period of no new cases here in Australia. It would have to last to November if you wanted to reduce risk but the economic cost may be too much.

    I really don't know if there is an answer. It will most likely become endemic.

  32. #132
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    Why oh why is this type of thing always reduced to economic parameters? surely public health is the important issue.

    "a situation in Australia where everyone freaks out..." we're well and truly there, the media have made sure of that.

    To gain some perspective influenza has claimed 6600 lives in the US this season, 39 of them children.
    https://thehill.com/changing-america...-2019-2020-flu
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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    It is great to see no new cases outside of China today.
    The latest I'm seeing reports for is for the 14th GMT. On which there a number of cases outside of China. The only reports I've seen reported on the 15th GMT are about cases on the 14th GMT. So new cases are still happening outside of China it would seem.


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    A couple new ones in Malaysia.

    I think the threat is spreading slowly. Malaysia and Indonesia are currently where the threats are coming from as there are bans on flights from China but not these countries and everyone seems suspicious that there are NO cases in Indonesia. Seems unlikely.

    Edit: I think we are at risk in Perth as Bali is such a popular tourist destination.
    Last edited by wattgn; 1 Week Ago at 04:31 PM.

  35. #135
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    The main problem is that infected people can be asymptomatic during the 14 day quarantine period and capable of spreading the Virus. The tests aren't reliable. An infected person was tested 4 times and only the 4th test was positive. They were tested the first time because Xrays showed the infection. Many other cases with False Positives and False Negatives. Suggestions that up to 28 days in some cases before symptoms show.

    Quarantine, if not done properly, can put a few infected into a large uninfected group. Each time a person is introduced into a communal group the timer needs to be reset. Too many variables as to how the Virus can be picked up. Suggestions it can live on surfaces for up to 9 days in favorable conditions. Other thoughts are that it can spread via something like shared sewage system (apartments, ship etc) as the virus survives in Faeces.

    Public health comes first when dealing with something like this. The aim is to stop it spreading beyond a small number of people that can be effectively quarantined and treated with the limited resources available in our Hospitals. Once it gets beyond that the rate of spread can sky-rocket. This is why what the Government does now to keep the Genie in the Bottle is of utmost importance. No place for Political Correctness or pandering for votes. They get one shot at this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Public health comes first when dealing with something like this. The aim is to stop it spreading beyond a small number of people that can be effectively quarantined and treated with the limited resources available in our Hospitals. Once it gets beyond that the rate of spread can sky-rocket. This is why what the Government does now to keep the Genie in the Bottle is of utmost importance. No place for Political Correctness or pandering for votes. They get one shot at this.
    It seems that it will spread. The big problem is this is almost the perfect virus for spreading. It is important to contain it for as long as possible though.

    Australia is shaping up as the next country that could be hit too and we will be going into the sick season in three months time. Travel bans could then target us.

  37. #137
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    China is attempting to enforce self quarantine for 500 million (that's half a billion) of its people, "Those who refuse to accept home or centralised observation and other prevention and control measures will be held accountable under law."

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    China is attempting to enforce self quarantine for 500 million (that's half a billion) of its people, "Those who refuse to accept home or centralised observation and other prevention and control measures will be held accountable under law."
    Unfortunately it's a real horror story over there. Forced removals to a "Quarantine" centre. Bounties paid for dobbing in anyone who has traveled to Wuhan or is showing signs of fever. Sick people dying in their apartments after lock-downs. Others fearing exposure at the "Quarantine" centres. Just a horrible, horrible situation.

    Meanwhile the guy who had returned from Wuhan and eaten at a local restaurant close to me is under voluntary home quarantine. Go figure. There was a media report last week that a local Hospital staff member was suspected of having the virus but heard it once and then nothing more.

    This is the current offering from our State Health Dept. - https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/victoria...el-coronavirus

    Onus is on the public to do the right thing. Really.....?

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post

    Onus is on the public to do the right thing. Really.....?
    We are all well aware of how enthusiastically people from Asian countries comply with Australian quarantine regulations.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    We are all well aware of how enthusiastically people from Asian countries comply with Australian quarantine regulations.

    Yeh, well they're not alone on that account.
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    I think Australia and all countries have to be transparent about this virus. Whether we are better or worse than China in that respect, only time will tell.

    Draconian action can backfire too. If Chinese are more afraid of being quarantined than spreading the virus then they will choose to self isolate or not, provided they don't need hospital care. Self Isolation can only work if you have a place you can go to where you can't spread it. In China many people live in crowded conditions so self quarantine means spreading it to your family. This is happening too which isn't good.

    The Victorian health advisory seems reasonable to me which is to self isolate as a precaution if you have been to high risk areas.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    We are all well aware of how enthusiastically people from Asian countries comply with Australian quarantine regulations.
    sort of needs a qualification..... we are all well aware of how the Chinese are demonised by the media/tv entertainment propaganda for a whole plethora of things both real and imagined. Given the volume of visitors non compliance is probably not that high and although
    carting food around the planet in our baggage isn't common among westerners those cultures that do are not breaking the law just because some of us choose to be offended by images predetermined to offend the easily offended.
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  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    The Victorian health advisory seems reasonable to me which is to self isolate as a precaution if you have been to high risk areas.
    It seems incredibly naive to me rather than reasonable, almost bordering on childlike. Many from other cultures don't have the same values or regard for their fellow citizens. You only have to turn on the news each night to see the latest installments. Those that come from a country where it's every man for himself are unlikely to change their ways. Add money to the equation and things just get more messy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbuqmziQ28I
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    To gain some perspective influenza has claimed 6600 lives in the US this season, 39 of them children.
    https://thehill.com/changing-america...-2019-2020-flu
    Update.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the USA have estimated that flu deaths so far (from October 1, 2019, through February 8, 2020) in the country's current flu season are between 14,000 to 36,000.

    See: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm for an explanation of the estimating process.

    The CDC is "one of the major operating components of the Department of Health and Human Services" in the USA and should be regarded as a reliable source of information.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otago View Post
    Update.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the USA have estimated that flu deaths so far (from October 1, 2019, through February 8, 2020) in the country's current flu season are between 14,000 to 36,000.

    See: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm for an explanation of the estimating process.

    The CDC is "one of the major operating components of the Department of Health and Human Services" in the USA and should be regarded as a reliable source of information.
    Yup. So....

    If Corona gets in, it is much more contagious and lethal than flu...

    It also causes pneumonia in 18% of cases so hospital and critical care is required.

    Flu deaths will still happen too.

    Nasty.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    ...The Victorian health advisory seems reasonable to me which is to self isolate as a precaution if you have been to high risk areas.
    Self isolation, wow! What a great idea. Right up there with voluntary wealth sharing and good will to all men.

    Ps if that fails, there is always prayer.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    It seems incredibly naive to me rather than reasonable, almost bordering on childlike. Many from other cultures don't have the same values or regard for their fellow citizens. You only have to turn on the news each night to see the latest installments. Those that come from a country where it's every man for himself are unlikely to change their ways. Add money to the equation and things just get more messy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbuqmziQ28I
    Well, if we're going to make sweeping generalisations about the behaviour of people from other cultures, here's one.....Even prior to the current Coronavirus problem, the likelihood of an ethnically Chinese person in Australia wearing a surgical mask in public when they have a cold / flu has always appeared to me to be much higher than in the general population. There are aspects of Chinese culture that demonstrate a stronger concern for society than occurs in ours....but of course other aspects that work very much in the opposite direction. I've spent quite of bit of time in China....it's not as simple as some like to portray it.
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  48. #148
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    So, a little different perspective on looking at the numbers. I had noticed this before, it was actually even more exaggerated before the recent updates in how Hubei counts cases but that was what motived me to actually stick the numbers in excel.

    Cities Region Date #Cases #Death #Recovered %Deaths %Recovered
    Hubei Mainland China 2020-02-14 54406 1457 4774 2.68 8.77
    All non-Hubei in China China 2020-02-14 11934 63 3204 0.53 26.85
    All non-China Rest of world 2020-02-14 547 3 80 0.55 14.62


    Based on this I think it seems several things seem very likely. One is that Hubei has a two-fold problem. One is corruption, most likely there is an effort-or at least was-an effort to try to minimize the reported number of cases. That is probably exacerbated by the fact that Hubei is unable to keep up with the actual number of cases. This in turn means that there are significant numbers of cases in Hubei going unidentified, but the most serious cases are being identified thus significantly raising the apparent mortality rates. This is further evidenced by the much lower than average recovery %. It seems likely that the real recovery percentage should be higher, but that because they are overwhelmed they are not able to follow up on recovery which is compounded by only reporting the more serious cases, and thus patients are taking longer to recover.

    It seems far more likely to me that the non-Hubei and global numbers are more accurate. Though I recognize it has taken time to travel outside of Hubei, so I imagine watching how those numbers change in the next week is going to be very important to understanding the situation.

    https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/CO...02-14-2020.csv

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    There are aspects of Chinese culture that demonstrate a stronger concern for society than occurs in ours....but of course other aspects that work very much in the opposite direction. I've spent quite of bit of time in China....it's not as simple as some like to portray it.
    Rather than voluntarily quarantining when NOVID-19 first hit Wuhan and a lock-down was imminent, many fled the city and a lot headed for the nearest airport so sorry, can't agree. Their lack of a stronger concern for society just spread the virus further afield.
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  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Rather than voluntarily quarantining when NOVID-19 first hit Wuhan and a lock-down was imminent, many fled the city and a lot headed for the nearest airport so sorry, can't agree. Their lack of a stronger concern for society just spread the virus further afield.
    The Chinese are trying to do what might be impossible, putting the shit back in the horse.

    They are throwing everything at it. They could only do this sort of thing in a totalitarian society they have. I still can't see it succeeding.

    In 20/20 hindsight I'm sure that they would do things differently.



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