Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Vacuum storage

  1. #1
    Kes
    Kes is offline
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    24

    Vacuum storage

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Gday! I wonder if anyone has any vacuum storage jars for sale. I believe that they keep beans much fresher.

    Kes :D

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    1,756

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Coffee Parts (over there<<<<<<<) has them, I believe valves bags are better, personally, allows degas.......

  3. #3
    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Regional Victoria
    Posts
    739

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Ive been using the one way valve bags after roasting and then transfer the beans into a VacuVin canister for everyday usage. I vac the canister down after each session and am very happy with it at this point, have been using it for appr. 3 months. These are the exact units available via Coffee Parts. :)

    Steve

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    275

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Hi CSrs,

    Im a newbie with an old second hand palate but Ive still got most of my marbles (by way of qualifying my following statement).

    I am philosophically against vacuum storage in rigid containers if the containers are to be sampled periodically (if my model of the science holds water).
    Or at least would rank this system inferior to bag storage if overlying air was minimized, seal was adequate and bag material was adequately robust and of an acceptable permeability.
    But would be happy to be demonstrated to be wrong by a superior scientific model or a quality palate.

    Just my view
    Lindsay

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    505

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Ive got one sitting at the top of my cupboard not doing anything. Id be happy to give it away but I would feel bad giving to someone to store coffee in it.
    I found that it is worse than keeping the beans in a paper bag.
    The vacuum seemed to pull the oil out of the beans. The beans would age quicker.
    Also if the beans are stored straight after a roast the degassing breaks the seal anyway.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    1,756

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 5754464642544C350 link=1259664543/4#4 date=1259716355
    Also if the beans are stored straight after a roast the degassing breaks the seal anyway.
    That is exactly what happened to me, roast, seal, come home from work, seal broken, seal, seal broken yada yada yada.....

    would be great......if it worked well.......it didnt :(

  7. #7
    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Regional Victoria
    Posts
    739

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Hmmm, me thinks it may be time for me to try a non-scientific type of taste test. I will try this (unless there is a better suggestion ;) :)) Will roast this weekend, all beans into one way valve bag for de-gas, a couple of days later will transfer part to vacuum canister and leave remainder in their OWV bag. Then continue to do taste tests until all used. Thoughts??

    PS. I will expect to find that the masses will already know what I am going to find. And I am quite certain that this path has already been trodden :)

    Steve

  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,770

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Support what Lindsay says above... :)

    Many of the oils found in roasted coffee are very volatile. As such, they are never far away from their specific boiling temperature. As you apply an ever increasing vacuum to a vessel containing freshly roasted coffee, you encourage these volatile oils to boil off and be removed from the vessel via the pump you use. Unfortunately, a lot of these volatiles are very desirable compounds which contribute much to the overall flavour profile of a freshly brewed coffee.

    Many years ago (18-20), I used to store my freshly roasted coffee in evacuated jars but that was before I had learned just how much of the beautiful coffee flavours I was actually losing. I could taste the vast difference between coffee that was brewed shortly after receiving the beans and those, that had been stored in a vacuum jar. This difference was particularly pronounced after the coffee had been exposed to several evacuation/pressurisation cycles and shortly thereafter, I stopped using the Vacuvin idea. I didnt have access to 1-Way Valve bags back then but used to roll the bags up as tightly as I could and wrapped securely with strong rubber bands. This worked reasonably well for me and thats what I kept on doing until about 8 or so years ago when I started receiving my coffee in the ubiquitous 1-Way Valve Bag.

    Basically, you dont need anything fancy to store your beans such that they continue to retain as much of their original flavour as possible. 1-Way Valve Bags with as much of the air squeezed out as possible before sealing, a rubber band wrapped around from top to bottom and then stored in a cool, dry, dark and airy location (as opposed to a dank, airless place) will ensure that you get the best flavours from the coffee as it is practical to do so. Have been doing it like this now for many years and the coffee is always great.... 8-)

    Mal.


  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    124

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Is there any problem of using clip sealed jars to storage roast coffee? and green beans?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C776C6D030 link=1259664543/8#8 date=1259848907
    Is there any problem of using clip sealed jars to storage roast coffee? and green beans?
    Not recommended by the more knowledgeable among us Oton, having said that, I degas for a couple of days in a one way valve bag then transfer to one of the sealed jars you mention, freshness or deterioration does not seem to be a problem.
    Mind you I use them all within about 5 days then roast another 500 grams.

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,770

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 726972731D0 link=1259664543/8#8 date=1259848907
    Is there any problem of using clip sealed jars to storage roast coffee? and green beans?
    Gday Oton,

    Probably depends on the size of the jars with respect to the amount of coffee being stored. Regardless of that, as you repeatedly open/close the jar and the quantity of beans slowly diminishes, the ratio of the volume of air to the quantity of remaining beans begins to work against maintaining the beans at their freshest.

    If you were just talking small amounts of coffee in a commensurately small jar used for storing beans for a single days consumption (at work say), then there wouldnt be a problem. Gotta keep those beans as fresh as possible to enjoy the best brews from them.... ;)

    Mal.

  12. #12
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,286

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 102C253D28490 link=1259664543/9#9 date=1259851004
    I degas for a couple of days in a one way valve bag then transfer to one of the sealed jars you mention, freshness or deterioration does not seem to be a problem.
    Unless maybe the more exposed beans produce less crema¡ :o

    Greg

  13. #13
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 52677072427A6778747971150 link=1259664543/11#11 date=1259930209
    Unless maybe the more exposed beans produce less crema¡
    You may well have a point there Greg, even though cooling flush has solved the problem, will keep this lot in a valve bag and report back. ;)

  14. #14
    Kes
    Kes is offline
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    24

    Re: Vacuum storage

    I seem to have started something here. If my summary of the posts is right, vac jars are not necessary but the one way valve bags are OK?? Please note that many of you referred to vacuum storage ruining freshly roasted beans. I dont roast so I have already suffered that initial loss anyway. Also, due to a variety of circumstances, beans are going to last me a couple of weeks. Given that, what are the views on storage?

    Kes

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    921

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Generally accepted is that coffee bags with a one way valve stored in a cool dark place. Some debate about the merits of other ways of storage dont have to look too far back to find it if you are interested.

  16. #16
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 46687E0D0 link=1259664543/13#13 date=1260090812
    I dont roast so I have already suffered that initial loss anyway.
    I dont recall anyone saying there is only an initial loss.

    If you use a vacuum you are going to keeping sucking out anything thats left.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    275

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 416F790A0 link=1259664543/13#13 date=1260090812
    I seem to have started something here. *If my summary of the posts is right, vac jars are not necessary but the one way valve bags are OK?? *Please note that many of you referred to vacuum storage ruining freshly roasted beans. *I dont roast so I have already suffered that initial loss anyway. *Also, due to a variety of circumstances, beans are going to last me a couple of weeks. *Given that, what are the views on storage?
    Kes
    Let me summarize for you, although everyone may not agree:
    - get a valve bag if you want to preserve as much freshness as possible for a couple of weeks.
    - get a vac jar if you want to accelerate the destruction of flavour compounds and the loss of volatile flavour oils progressively over a couple of weeks.
    If you are interested in some of the qualifications for this summary re-read the thread, if you want to read more thoughts and possibilities search "storage" this topic surfaces about fortnightly. If you discover that the summary is wrong let us know, were all interested in storage and Id definitely like to reflect on any shortcomings, for the purpose of improving on my coffee pleasure.

    Kind Regards
    Lindsay

  18. #18
    Kes
    Kes is offline
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    24

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 122E3328222334212922460 link=1259664543/15#15 date=1260095472
    Quote Originally Posted by 46687E0D0 link=1259664543/13#13 date=1260090812
    *
    I dont recall anyone saying there is only an initial loss.
    Thundergod - Ive run a couple of responses together! *Regardless, bags or standard sealing jars should do better than vac jars.

    Point(s) taken. *Thanks folks. ;D



  19. #19
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866

    Re: Vacuum storage

    My thoughts on one way valve bags.
    As I see it the purpose of these bags is to exclude air while allowing freshly roasted beans to degas and expel excess Co2 through the valve.
    Co2 in its self is obviously not detrimental to coffee beans, in fact its used as a form of controlled atmosphere preservation of food stuffs http://wapedia.mobi/en/Food_preservation?t=14.#14.
    So instead of using expensive one way valve bags at home why not use over size zip lock bags, (reused valve bags are zip lock anyway) exclude most of the air before sealing, store in a dark cupboard and simply allow them to inflate, excess Co2 will leak through the zip closure while the positive pressure inside the bag will exclude the entry of air.
    Im not suggesting for a moment that retailers stop using one way valve bags, they are certainly more robust than a zip lock and are better able to withstand the rigours of transport.
    Will give it a try with my next roast and keep you informed. :)

  20. #20
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,286

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Your suggestion will work fine Jon.

    Notice however that you will have to keep the beans in the dark while coffee bags are opaque; oxygen will leak easier through the plastic than through the aluminium layer in the coffee bag; and as the pressure builds from de-gassing it is possible to have a zip lock burst open.

    Greg

  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A7F686A5A627F606C61690D0 link=1259664543/19#19 date=1260436407
    Your suggestion will work fine Jon.

    Notice however that you will have to keep the beans in the dark while coffee bags are opaque; oxygen will leak easier through the plastic than through the aluminium layer in the coffee bag; and as the pressure builds from de-gassing it is possible to have a zip lock burst open.

    Greg
    Just thinking out loud Greg ::) yep as I said in my post (store in dark cupboard) and over size bag to allow for expansion, in the order of 1 kg bag for 500g of beans.
    Heading for Adelaide tomorrow, Spotlight, Tonkins and Rio coffee on the shopping list, the real reason for the trip is to drop the better half at the airport, shes heading to Melbourne for a week. :)

  22. #22
    Kes
    Kes is offline
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    24

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 24110604340C110E020F07630 link=1259664543/19#19 date=1260436407
    Your suggestion will work fine Jon.

    Notice however that you will have to keep the beans in the dark while coffee bags are opaque; oxygen will leak easier through the plastic than through the aluminium layer in the coffee bag; and as the pressure builds from de-gassing it is possible to have a zip lock burst open.

    Greg
    I asked a new supplier of beans (already roasted!!) how they store their beans and referred to this topic. *They use foldover brown paper bags and are very happy. *Their most sage advice, however, was not to store in plastic. *I guess that makes zip-locks a little redundant? *BTW, can you buy one-way valve bags or do you just uy beans in them and reuse later?

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 032D3B480 link=1259664543/21#21 date=1260756298
    *They use foldover brown paper bags and are very happy. *
    do you think as they are your supplier and your paying them for the beans that they would say "our bags a rubbish, we should use XYZ type"

    Would you keep buying them if they did say that?

    the dont use plastic is their opinion, and everyone has one........

  24. #24
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 2A0412610 link=1259664543/21#21 date=1260756298
    They use foldover brown paper bags and are very happy.
    I suspect the reason they are very happy with them is that they are cheap, Ill stick with one way valve bags and continue to trial zip lock. ;)

  25. #25
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,770

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Try an experiment Kes....

    Grab a quantity of "known" freshly roasted, high quality beans and split them up between a 1-Way Valve Bag and a Brown paper Bag. Make a coffee from each bag over the course of a week or so and then draw your own conclusions.... ;)

    Mal.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B76727E731F0 link=1259664543/24#24 date=1260773800
    Make a coffee from each bag over the course of a week or so and then draw your own conclusions
    Do ya reckon there will be any difference ;D

  27. #27
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,286

    Re: Vacuum storage

    Quote Originally Posted by 597761120 link=1259664543/21#21 date=1260756298
    BTW, can you buy one-way valve bags or do you just buy beans in them and reuse later?
    Both. See BeanBay for bag supplies.
    Line the used bags with freezer bags to keep the old oils from the new beans and the bags will last until the zips give out.

    Greg



Similar Threads

  1. vacuum container
    By summercrema in forum Roasted Bean Storage
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 9th July 2009, 01:12 PM
  2. Vacuum Bean Storage- advice needed...
    By sorrentina in forum Roasted Bean Storage
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 26th April 2009, 06:58 PM
  3. Vacuum storage
    By caffeol in forum Roasted Bean Storage
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 29th July 2008, 08:33 PM
  4. Bean Vacuum
    By BamBam in forum Roasted Bean Storage
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 20th May 2008, 10:25 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •