I dont keep any beans in the grinder
I only place the amount I require to make XYZ number of coffees
Fresh is best
The special coffee bags are the best storage method
I dont keep any beans in the grinder
I only place the amount I require to make XYZ number of coffees
Fresh is best
The special coffee bags are the best storage method
You might have to alter the options to minutes, less than a day ;)
I cant fill in the survey.
I measure the amount of beans I want out of the bag, put them in the grinder and grind directly into the portafilter. Time for beans in the grinder--15 secs. to 2 minutes depending on how many coffees Im making.
Would storing the beans for about 5 days affect the quality of the extractions too dramatically?
Assuming the beans are reasonably fresh to begin with (<1wk post roast) of course.
Theyll deteriorate way quicker IMO
The valve coffee bags are the best storage method after roasting
Quote from sweet marias
KKThese bags do WONDERS to preserve coffee aromatics! Essentially, they are better coffee storgage than airtight glass since the CO2 from fresh coffee flushes the oxygen out the one way de-gassing valve , and when you open the bag you can squeeze it while resealing and help force the oxygen out. The CO2 will do the rest. Valve bags are not good for storing ground coffee.
I measure out beans for the dose required and then grind keeping the remainder in the one-way valved bag.
Im with Greg on this.Originally Posted by GregWormald link=1216186237/0#3 date=1216187793
Im in a pickle.
My budget EM0480 cant produce an even grind when its not filled with beans. Yet i only pour an average of two shots a day (~15g each).
So at my current rate of consumption, the beans would be in the hopper for at least 3 days. Or 5 days on average.
Im going to try to leave the beans in the hopper over the coming week. Will see how it turns out or how the flavour changes as they go stale.
Can you put a bit of card over the beans in the hopper and press it all down with a glass or a spare tamper?
ezralimm im in the same sitch as you.
it seems the options are:
popcorning (and grind inconsistencies)
something that will put downward pressure on the beans in the hopper per shot?
Here is my young daughter’s inventionOriginally Posted by GregWormald link=1216186237/0#10 date=1216189980
Fill a balloon with rice to the appropriate size to fit your hopper tie it off and use it as a weight
Ditto.Originally Posted by greenman link=1216186237/0#7 date=1216188857
Thats a good idea KK.Originally Posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1216186237/0#12 date=1216191931
I was going to say in answer to the question that a bit of card wont work because theres a finger guard in the way.
Your daughters idea is brilliant.
Guys its not hard to stop pop corning...its quite simple!
Put at the very least, a few hundred grams in the hopper....make the coffees you need. Close the gate on the hopper and put the beans back in to a one way valve bag....be sure to grab what ever you can out of the throat of the grinder as well...as that will hold a fair bit of coffee! of course make sure you do this when the grinder is off.
As I said in another thread, I think premeasuring beans for each shot is the worst method of espresso preparation...EVER. The quicker it dies off, the better.
What domestic grinder (apart from the EM0480) has a hopper gate?Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1216186237/0#14 date=1216210625
Yes David that works a treat but it only works
If your grinder hopper has a gate
Does Ezerallims *EM0480 have a gate
I clicked "1 day or less", but its probably a few hours at most.
For me personally, I think the pedantics are admirable - and to each their own - but "sheesh"! For starters, the amount of ground coffee that hangs around the burrs would have to be as much if not more than might stick in the chute - and a lot of snobs get antsy about any grinds in the chute putting the shot freshness off. Gawd. Secondly, every time beans are opened up to measure out or whatever means more and more exposures to air so the differences here no matter how pedantic are pretty insignificant.
I store my brown beans in roughly 150gm air tight containers (quite small) and pack em to the gunnells. The lid comes off 3 times and about 1/3 goes into the hopper. It does 3 doubles give or take which will be about 2 uses of the machine. The machine gets used - except for overnight - about every 3 hours. A 150 gm pack lasts maybe a day, maybe a day and a bit depending. I figure whatever disasterous air exposure theyre getting over that time I can live with, and the amount of time, dicking about and worry I save myself is well worth the 0.74% reduction in freshness.
Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1216186237/0#14 date=1216210625
Cause I do pre-measure, so I would really like to know whats so bad about it :(
Also, really -- worse than leaving the beans in the grinder for a week, worse than grinding the day before, worse than making a "long black" by running 200ml of water thru the puck, ... WOW :o
I pre-measure. My thoughts on pop-corning and the beans needing weight from other beans top grind properly pretty much echo Jim Schulmans in this post: http://www.home-barista.com/forums/is-single-dose-grinding-inconsistent-t4540.html#p49408
Ive noticed no difference in taste one way or the other, although Im happy to admit that the limiting factor is my tastebuds.
Yep, thats what I do.Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1216186237/0#14 date=1216210625
Mazzer MiniOriginally Posted by stuartgrant link=1216186237/0#15 date=1216211890
Bill, do you unscrew the screw at the throat of the hopper each time you empty the hopper or do you permanently leave the screw off? If the latter, is the hopper stable enough without the screw?Originally Posted by Bill link=1216186237/20#21 date=1216262099
Originally Posted by kohi link=1216186237/20#22 date=1216263967
I leave the screw off on all Mazzers; minis, super jollies, majors, konys and roburs...all are fine without a screw.
If pop corning doesnt effect your grind setting then thats fine, but on all the grinders Ive used; in my experience over the years, pop corning effects pours by speeding them up.Originally Posted by Mark link=1216186237/0#19 date=1216249150
With your Mazzers, a good thing to do if you weigh out shot by shot is put that crap plastic tamper to use as a weight for the beans in the throat of the grinder. No more popcorning.
Lucky for Mazzer and EM0480 owners! Sux for the rest of us...
Wushoes - is your opinion that popcorning creates coarser grinds, or that it creates inconsistent grinds? I am ignorance personified on this issue, but I havent seen anyone explain the physical differences between coffee ground with and without the weight of beans on top.
One post on the home-barista thread (link above) suggested that since the result of popcorning seems to be a faster pour (which to me points to a slightly coarser grind), why doesnt one adjust the grind setting accordingly. Obviously this is only applicable in a home setting (and only where a few coffees at a time are made). OTOH, if popcorning causes a (demonstrably) inconsistent grind, then it is a problem.
FWIW, I tend to pre-measure. Doing it any other way would lead to a) stale beans, or b) annoyance, at having to fill and empty the hopper 3-4 times a day.
However, my question in all of this is: Is this anti-popcorning bizzo another case of "home baristas should be more like us [pro-baristas]"? In a home environment, being consistent for the sake of higher quality coffee is great; being consistent just for the sake of it - or because someone else said so - is a waste of time IMO.
My Macap has the gate as well.
Pretty sure the Compaks do too.
Sorry I wasnt clear, pop-corning definitely speeds pours up, but since I add the beans to the grinder for one shot at a time, every one has the same pop-corning, so you can just tighten your grind.Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1216186237/20#24 date=1216269336
For me, there is no taste difference between a pop-corning shot with a tightened grind, and a full-hopper shot with a "normal" grind.
Certainly its a problem if you try to add the beans for 3 or 4 shots to the hopper, your grind will go out as the hopper empties, but for the people who weigh and add beans for one shot at a time I dont think it is an issue.
For me all this is about consistent dosing, if I had the pro barista skills to dose consistently without weighing I wouldnt bother.
Interesting this came up when it did.
A couple of months ago I did the teflon tape mod on my rocky and since then I have been getting inconsistent grinds from it. I was beginning to suspect that I had misthreaded the top bur when installing it.
Upon reading this I remember that was about the time that I started only putting enough beans in for a double and grinding them - I would weigh them down with my tamper. However since the tamper was too large to fit into the throat of the grinder the second half of the grind would jump around before being ground.
Yesterday I tried something different, I put in enough beans for two doubles and weighed it down with the tamper. This time the beans had pressure on them until the end of the grind (I dont grind into the pf - so dosing/distribution can be done later). The grounds seemed to be more consistent and much fluffier - as they compacted much more from my tamp.
This method isnt a problem for me as the beans arent going to stay in the hopper for longer than an hour.
My nickel and a half
Isnt it odd that it does produce and inconsistent grind. I mean the beans are still going in the same place, and theyre still coming out the other end after going through burr plates that are the same distance apart.... hmm
From what I have read
The same worm drive is used on the
EM0480, Iberital Challenge, LUX grinders
The throat of these grinders is small, and the amount of beans that can fit in the grinder chamber just above the blades does not have enough volume in weight to stop bouncing/pop-corning beans while grinding.
It stands to reason that unless you control the pop-corning with whatever method, e.g more beans, plastic tamper, balloon with rice, to feed the grinder worm drive, you will get an inconsistent grind due to gulp & grind - gulp & grind action of the grinder
I have owned the Iberital Challenge (does not have a hopper gate) B/4 I upgraded to the Macap M4D
The Macap has 4 times the volume in the throat just above the blades and does not have the same problem of pop-corning beans
So -- do I get an answer to my question, or was it simply beneath notice?
Gday Simone,Originally Posted by simone link=1216186237/0#18 date=1216212789
Ill have a bash..... I think pre-measuring(weighing) your beans into the grinder is OK for when youre first starting out, but once youve got the hang of what quantity comprises a double or single shot, I believe it becomes more and more unnecessary, mainly due to the time it takes and all the fiddling around involved.
I used to do it (weigh them) when I first started out learning how to use an espresso machine properly, mainly in an effort to reduce the variables at play. Like a lot of other things to do with learning the ropes, such as tamping on a set of bathroom scales for example, you soon come to grips with whats needed and develop a technique that is very fluid and efficient. Well, at least I hope that is what my technique is like ;).
Thats my take on it Simone..... :)
Thanks Mal, guess I was a bit taken aback by the vehemence with which a rather uncompromising view was expressed. Perhaps it was supposed to be a joke :-?
And also, as a noob, if Im doing something wrong, I really do want to know what it is, but most importantly, why
But I take your point about the totally irritating level of fiddling about involved -- I just havent figured out how to get the right qty of coffee through my dosered, timerless Mazzer without wasting way more than I ever use!
Though thats given me a bit of an evil idea (says she, gazing speculatively at the rather pointless device attached to the front of her Maz)
Well Simone, Ill tell you what I eventually did..... I searched high and low through various supermarkets, BigW, K-Mart, etc and bought a number of 1-Tablespoon measures; surprisingly, theyre not all the same volume, which, I suppose for general cooking doesnt matter overly much (Im not a cook by the way, tend to use a dash of this, a smidgen of that and a glug of something else ::)).
Anyway, eventually found a tablespoon that when struck level, produced a measure of beans that weighed between 15-16g with each throw and this ended up being the one I stuck with when I had the Mokita.... Combined with the Rocky, it made for very consistent dosing and little waste and once again, removed another variable from the mix. Maybe you could give this method a go, a lot less fiddly and quite accurate. It so happens that I now have a drawer full of tablespoon measures.... Probably come in handy for something :-?,
So you reckon dose by volume is the way to go (which is what a doser does after all), not by weight.
Well it so happens that I already have a drawer full of exceedlingly under-used measuring thingies -- I shall give it a go :)
Not going to do much about the pop-corning though. As an experiment I stuck a little plastic cup in the throat of the grinder. On later reflection this wouldve merely reduced the height to which beans could leap, not the actual leaping itself, and so was quite pointless.
It did have another effect however, and that was to cause all 17g of coffee to attempt to stick in the chute. What little was forced out then stuck to the side of the doser. Weird.
Hi Simone,Originally Posted by simone link=1216186237/20#34 date=1216473793
I weigh each dose of beans before I grind. Rocky doesnt seem to do much of the popcorning, so this works fine for me.
And considering the ritual that many baristi go through to get the correct dose (I watched the Copenhagen championships all too much) I reckon weighing each dose is easy and quick. I can weigh a dose while the previous one is grinding--so it takes about 15 seconds.
I like variety in my coffee and nearly always vary whats in the grinder for each cup--on a Saturday or Sunday I am likely to drink 5 different coffees! This would make cleaning out the beans or the doser quite a chore.
I also notice that weighing each dose seems to result in the coffee pulling in very consistent times--my doppio ristrettos vary on average only two or three seconds at most--all on the same grind number, and I sink-shot almost never. All this means no fiddling with grind, no fiddling with the dose, and no waste.
My recommendation is to do what works for the way you make and drink coffee.
Well being only new to grinding (1 Week 2 days) I measure the dose that goes into my sunbeam 480.
This seems to provide the consistence that I require in texture in the grind. I use 2 scoops o a measuring spoon that came with my EM6910 and grind into glass then dose into the PF (so it is level), tamp then pour. This is producing consistent grinds and results for me. all that matters is you can make great coffee with your technique.
I am sure that I will change over time but fro now it works and does not take any time at all.
Guys, im back to weighing and grinding. Dose by dose.
My weeklong experiment has made me come to the conclusion that beans do go stale in the hopper. It simply tastes bad. Cant put a finger on it, but im sticking to dose on demand from now on. Popcorning is an issue, but since it happens with each shot, the ~2-4s difference in each pour is still acceptable.
I dont exactly pre-measure but pour in enough beans (by eye) and then grind. *After I have made the shots, I empty what is left in the doser and into the bin. *Normally this would be less that the equivalent of 5 - 10 beans. *It didnt take much practice to get reasonably accurate. *I occasionally get it very wrong if that happens I just have another cup *8-)
There seems to be quite a reaction to my post. This is what I intended....my intention was to get people talking about the merits of weighing beans by weight then grinding, then dosing...to extracting coffee.
There are a few things Id like to discuss....
No grinder is going to grind the exact amount you weigh. Why is this important? Having as little as 0.2 grams of coffee less in the handle can effect your pour. One thing I learnt about espresso during competition training is that you need to be able to dose and tamp to within 0.1 grams of your set dose. Try it at home guys. Get scales that have a resolution of 0.1 grams or better and weigh exactly say 18 grams...grind it, dose it out, then weigh it....repeat say 10 times....there will be a variance....enough to throw off getting consistent pours maybe 9 out of 10 times.
Because of the above reason, pre-weighing beans is a complete waste of time in my opinion. This is why Im a huge advocate of dosing using the collapse method. Its consistent (with practice) as long as you are consistent with how hard and how many times you are collapsing.
How hard is it to close the hopper gate at the end of your coffee making session, lift the hopper off and then emptying the beans back in to the resealable bag anyway?
People shouldnt get hung up over one persons opinion. If pre-weighing works for you...then continue to do so...Im just saying, I believe there are better ways of doing it.
I use the silly dual floor filter baskets (come with the 6910) to dose the beans for one shot into the hopper, and keep the rest of the beans in the one-way valve bags.
Always the right amount, in my humble uneducated experience.
Originally Posted by ezralimm link=1216186237/20#39 date=1216535207
Amazing -- that was going to be my next experiment -- maybe Ill give it a miss ::)
Or do as David S suggests, and empty the beans back out each time. David, the collapse method you mention -- is that described in another thread? Any hints on how to find it?
I must confess that I was rather hoping to speed up, or at least streamline, my espresso preparation, tho...
I grind on demand always, after reading all the good advice on CS.
I weigh the grounds in the PF while Im learning to observe things by eye, such as changes in volume/look/grind over the course of a batch of beans. Im still very young when it comes to my CS journey.
I leave the screw off. The throat of the hopper is tapered, so it jams in quite firmly when pressed down.Originally Posted by kohi link=1216186237/20#22 date=1216263967
I dont think my palate is good enough yet to notice the difference you aim to eliminate in competition training.Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1216186237/40#41 date=1216551652
Thats why measuring with my spare basket will do me for now.
When I first got my gear home (which was only weeks ago) I had virtually no practical experience at all but a head full of "info". I was measuring, weighing, doing all sorts of things trying to get a reasonably consistent dose. Then in total exasperation I decided just to grind and keep flicking the doser handle until my double was pretty much overflowing. I then proceeded to gently push around with finger (hard to explain) so that the edges were full and ended up with a peak in the middle. I swept the peak back into the doser so that now the non-tamped coffee was about level with the top of the basket. A light tamp, knock so the little walls fell in, decent tamp and load. Shot was outstanding. Every other method - including measuring and / or weighing :-[ has been a catastrophe for me.
Now, having been doing this for several weeks with many "guests" now into their 3rd and 4th "just visiting, saw your light on, is the machine on" and all remarking on the consistently good coffee Im serving up Im pretty happy my "method" works for me. As I said above, throw about 50gms of beans in the hopper. What the hell? Youll use them in the day. The only time I empty the grinder is the "night, night" backflush and general clean up (whilst making sure the digital timer is set).
Isnt the collapse method simply practicing till you collapse?Originally Posted by ezralimm link=1216186237/20#39 date=1216535207
I had a massive post on the collapse method. I swear I posted it....maybe Ill retype it later tonight.