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Thread: Bean storage Local specialty coffee shop

  1. #1
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    Bean storage Local specialty coffee shop

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    In my local area ive been able to find one coffee shop that freshly roasts beans themselves.
    They store their beans in this fashion.
    I'm a total coffee noob but i was under the impression that any sunlight/moisture/air ruins the beans
    Pic coming soon, awaiting moderation
    Last edited by science-teacher; 24th August 2015 at 06:53 PM.

  2. #2
    TC
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    We store ours in windowless bags in a wine fridge...

    My pet hate is the old skool let's just chuck 'em into baskets, buckets, greasy window hoppers or something similar approach. Can't understand why roasters do that....

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    Please excuse my ignorance but how can i upload a pic from my pc?
    All it offers is from a URL

    Thanks
    @>Talk_Coffee

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    I see some people using photo bucket
    I made an account
    I hope this works
    Last edited by Javaphile; 24th August 2015 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Fix link

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    I used to buy from a local speciality Roaster with a retail frontage. Quite a big commercial operation
    i was never happy that they dispensed roast beans from a large " carousel" of clear plastic hoppers , 10 or 12 different roasts, each with probably 5 kg in. Right in the shop front window.
    what stopped me buying there was their total inability to know the roast date of any of the beans !
    Some coffee specialist !

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilviss View Post
    Please excuse my ignorance but how can i upload a pic from my pc?
    All it offers is from a URL

    Thanks
    @>Talk_Coffee
    Another week and a few more posts and you'll be able to upload pics to your hearts content.


    Java "Can you say anti-spam measures?" phile
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    Thaks Java, you're all over it
    Why would they do it like this hey. They roast weekly but ruin it

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    I used to buy from a local speciality Roaster with a retail frontage. Quite a big commercial operation
    i was never happy that they dispensed roast beans from a large " carousel" of clear plastic hoppers , 10 or 12 different roasts, each with probably 5 kg in. Right in the shop front window.
    what stopped me buying there was their total inability to know the roast date of any of the beans !
    Some coffee specialist !
    There's one in my locale too.

    Makes you wonder just how many different roast dates are in the open bins.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    "Just top it up when it's looking low" right? Not a problem right?

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    That's looks like a place at sunny coast that would have moved in the last year.

    I really like their Columbian espresso blend. I've only bought from them a few times and sometimes they are willing to get fresher stock from out the back for you. I'm general I haven't had a problem with the freshness from there but I guess it depends if it's a blend that sells a lot and gets replenished often or not.

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    Yeah on the sunny coast i just didnt want to mention any names haha
    They're so nice and have a great cafe, but whyyyyyyyyyyy

  12. #12
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.

    Blend52 learned the reality of this industry benchmark.
    There is literally no way around fresh roasted beans for full flavour

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoaJackson View Post
    Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.

    Blend52 learned the reality of this industry benchmark.
    There is literally no way around fresh roasted beans for full flavour
    Not all beans are bad after 14 days. In point of fact some are just starting to come into peak flavor at or even after that amount of time.


    Java "Monsooned what?" phile
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoaJackson View Post
    Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.
    ....and that that statement is a gross generalisation. We have some that you wouldn't want to even think about for at least 3 weeks.

    As always, it depends on the beans and also the palate...
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  15. #15
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    Just to make plain English clearer.
    The keywords I wrote were 'until the bean degrades'.

    Now if both highly sensitive commenters can explain just how the science in my comment is inaccurate or derogatory it would be appreciated...

    "It depends on the palate" wrote Talk Coffee

    Right...
    Whatever, just try and explain that to the roasters and premium coffee houses where I live in Melbourne.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoaJackson View Post
    Just to make plain English clearer.
    The keywords I wrote were 'until the bean degrades'.

    Now if both highly sensitive commenters can explain just how the science in my comment is inaccurate or derogatory it would be appreciated...

    ???? What was highly sensitive about the responses? They simply qualified the information in your post that could have been misleading if treated as some universal law. Seems a fair contribution to the debate to me.

    Didn't see to much 'science' in the post to be honest. Stating that something degrades and loses condition after an arbitrary point of time is simply an assertion (albeit one that is reasonable in many cases). One of the blokes who replied to you *is* a roaster from Melbourne where you live.
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  17. #17
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    "Didn't see much science..." wrote Barry O'Speedwagon

    No shit Sherlock

    But it is interesting 'BO' why you haven't 'justified' our centre of gravity who pay for a brew demand fresh beans and clever operators oblige.

  18. #18
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    It's no good partially quoting the statement that caused the confusion.
    You wrote:
    Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.
    Both responses (and me for that matter) take issue with the whole statement.
    14 days is not a one size fits all measurement.
    And as to the 'science' in the comment - there is no reference to proof, so not sure what you mean.

    Your response seems out of proportion to me.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Ahh - never mind. Just saw your latest response. You're just trollin'.
    Now we can just ignore you.

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Just to make plain English clearer let me quote Merriam-Webster:

    Full Definition of DEGRADE
    transitive verb
    1
    a : to lower in grade, rank, or status : demote
    b : to strip of rank or honors
    c : to lower to an inferior or less effective level <degrade the image quality>
    d : to scale down in desirability or salability
    2
    a : to bring to low esteem or into disrepute <his actions have degraded his profession>
    b : to drag down in moral or intellectual character : corrupt
    3
    : to impair in respect to some physical property <material degraded by exposure to sunlight>
    4
    : to wear down by erosion
    5
    : to reduce the complexity of (a chemical compound) : decompose
    intransitive verb
    1
    : to pass from a higher grade or class to a lower
    2
    of a chemical compound : to become reduced in complexity
    Not a single one of those definitions makes your statement "Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition." true unless you also agree with the statement that the beans start degrading with-in minutes of being roasted. Which of course makes your statement meaningless. While any number of them make Chris's and my statements not only true but meaningful.


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  21. #21
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    "14 days is not a one size fits all measurement" wrote fatboy_1999

    Interesting comment, not sure how it qualifies as relevant.

    However it is true some coffee drinkers smoke tobacco and write into coffee blogs as 'informed experts'. So that point is taken.

    Generally speaking off gassing is measured in hours and for the sake of brevity I rounded it to days. Apologies for the lack of accuracy...

    As for the projection of 'trolling' onto my comments; anyone following the thread can see that says far more about your values than mine

  22. #22
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    "Not a single one of those definitions makes your statement..." wrote Javaphile

    Ok I'll play

    Keywords; 'meaningless' - 'single' - 'meaningful'

    As far as I am aware a roasted coffee bean becomes still is a chemical compound after roasting, and altered deliberately.

    Now if you do a little scan of your dictionary 'quote' you have written; '...to reduce the complexity of (a chemical compound)...'
    Clearly is the application to my use of the word 'degrade' in context in regard to roasted beans timeline of desirableness.

    Do another little scan of this thread and our conversation I thought was about roasting coffee; or changing the state of a natural product through processing...
    Put in scientific terms - altering the chemical compound of coffee beans to enhance flavour and commercial desirability.

    I'll give you something to look up since your dictionary is open, the word and meaning of 'subjective'.

    It might help to keep this word in mind when critiquing a fellow coffee lovers comment meaning to avoid projecting personal values onto any comment context.

    My final word on this hideous conversation is - Dunning Kruger effect, something everyone could be 'mindful of' on this blog.
    http://goo.gl/5rehd6

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoaJackson View Post
    Ok I'll play...
    Perhaps you might do us a favour and choose another playground

  24. #24
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Just to interject a wee bit of science into what seems to have become a derailed discussion. "Espresso Coffee The Science of Quality" by Illy & Viani (2nd Edtion), chapter 6.1.2.1 Degassing:

    Carbon Dioxide formed during roasting is trapped in the cellular structure of the bean and is only released over a period of weeks following roasting, resulting in a 1.5%-1.7% weight loss. The amount of gas released can be estimated at 6-10Ltr per 1 Kg bean depending on roasting degree, the higher figure being valid for dark roasted blends.
    Degassing rate is inversely related to time from roasting. The massive degassing that take place in the early hours after roasting slows down gradually, and it may take months for all CO2 to be released from the bean. The process is slow because much of the CO2 is bound to the bean structure. It also mentions that there are 2 different mechanisms that control CO2 release, in the beginning pressure gradients between the inside & outside of the bean and then by molecular diffusion.

    The whole paragraph is backed up by scientific facts and published observations, much of which is out of my area of knowledge. But it is a well known source of facts

    I think it helps me get a more realistic handle on the time estimates. Plus I agree with the anecdotal comments, many from those I know have walked the talk for a long time, that beans such as Monsoon Malabar take way longer than usual to reach their optimum, and therefore any general statements regarding time limits are best qualified by the caveat that they are at best the observations of the poster rather than a statement indicating a scientific fact. I'm sure most of us that roast, are especially aware of the many variables that can affect deterioration rates including storage conditions, bean type, roast depth, roast type, expectations, palate.......

    GrahamK
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  25. #25
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Continue with your rambling cherry picking of partial statements and attempts to dress them up using pseudo scientific statements all you like CocoaJackson. In the end knowledgeable roasters and coffee drinkers alike know that many varietals of coffee beans which have been properly stored do not reach peak flavor until more than 14 days after they've been roasted with some taking twice that long to reach the point of maximum desirable flavor.


    Java "Done and dusted, anything more is just feeding the troll" phile
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  26. #26
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    Your contribution and tone is much appreciated GrahamK

    If anyone bothers to read what I wrote initially you will find no contradiction with GrahamK's comment.

    I routinely eat, cheese, meat and fermented vegetables that are in various stages of ageing - degradation.

    However coffee degradation is not always an indication of the roasters intent, my comment was about what most of our elite cafes create. As we are all aware those who pay for coffee expect freshly roasted beans.
    There was never any question of exceptions in my comment.
    But they exist, the issue is broad and palates vary this was not in my initial comment context. But was a given.

    But making money selling stale coffee is the surest way to go broke.

    Go ahead and explain those metrics and I will give you a list of cafes that have tipped ____________

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    Air roasted beans age more quickly - is that right? So most air-roasted are likely to peak in fewer than two weeks?

    Mine never last that long before consumption. But given I lazily store them in the hopper after roasting, it's just as well.

  28. #28
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Perhaps you might do us a favour and choose another playground
    Talk_Coffee -
    apologies if the 'play' metaphor went over your head.

    It was just a reference to the school playground use of the dictionary definition that fell flat through the writers vindictive comment.
    _________

  29. #29
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    No it didn't go anywhere. I have a low threshold on troll activity. Tossers as well.
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    Further to my earlier confession...
    And noting results are in the eye of the beholder (to an extent)...
    Is packaging beans in valve bags within hours of roasting and then not opening for say a week or so strongly 'desirable' (as a rule of thumb)? If I just plonk a few beans in my hopper after roasting and consume a couple of days later is that a distinctly second-best approach?

  31. #31
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Haven't seen RayTCoffeePro for a while.....
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  32. #32
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    RayT may have been just as inappropriate/nonsensical but he wasn't quite as rude as this... errrr... fine human speciman
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  33. #33
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    WantRancillo10

    For what it's worth, you are the best judge of the freshness of the roast you have purchased.

    Ask your supplier what his intent was. It seems there is a disproportionate number of roasters around this country selling the story 'old beans' are good beans.
    Good business if you can get away with it hehehe...
    Seems they are reading some comments

  34. #34
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WantRancilio10 View Post
    Further to my earlier confession...
    And noting results are in the eye of the beholder (to an extent)...
    Is packaging beans in valve bags within hours of roasting and then not opening for say a week or so strongly 'desirable' (as a rule of thumb)? If I just plonk a few beans in my hopper after roasting and consume a couple of days later is that a distinctly second-best approach?
    There are no absolutes... it really is up to you.
    I roast commercially and nothing stops me from trying a freshly roasted batch within the first 24 hours and I am able to churn out quality coffees even then. Of course things seem to come together and a more harmonious balance is achieved further on down the road... with a bit of patience. For some coffees they may come together 4 days down the road, most peak (for my palate anyway) between 7 and 14 days in, and there are some that absolutely LOVE a bit of further ageing and I have had many a fine cup from coffees 3 or 4 weeks post roast.

    As with wine, there are those that eagerly line up for the first Vin Nouveau release of each vintage as they enjoy the brazen and frisky fruit therein, and there are those that prefer to sip on a 20 year old Bordeaux First Growth that has mellowed out to the point where it is much like drinking a silk scarf. There are no absolutes, no truly rights or wrongs... it really comes down to knowing your bean (or grape), and knowing your palate and making sure those two expectations meet in a harmonious and rewarding manner.
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  35. #35
    Junior Member CocoaJackson's Avatar
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    Finally the voice of reason

    Thanks for your contribution to the thread Vinitasse

  36. #36
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoaJackson View Post
    Finally the voice of reason
    Don't hear that very often, and... be careful who you're thanking because if you keep on keeping on, I'll be spanking you eventually. Have a nice day!
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    There are no absolutes... it really is up to you.
    Thanks - I home (air) roast and have done for a few years. And I'm sure I've got the odd bad habit with my coffee producing technique. I was wondering whether not having invested in one-way valve bags was one of them.

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  39. #39
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    So, with reference to Leroy's link above... which one of the combatants in this thread is really Malcolm Turnbull?

  40. #40
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WantRancilio10 View Post
    So, with reference to Leroy's link above... which one of the combatants in this thread is really Malcolm Turnbull?
    And which one killed a guy with a trident?



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