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Thread: The old freezing beans theory...

  1. #1
    Senior Member daledugahole's Avatar
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    The old freezing beans theory...

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well, I don't, and won't be starting seeing as my home roasted beans are fine just the way they are. Thought it might be an interesting article though to discuss....

    Want to drink better-tasting coffee? Freeze your beans, say scientists - ScienceAlert

    My non scientist palette still reckons there is a freezery - frozeny flavour to anything you eat/drink that's frozen.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Good grief man!! What have you done?!

  3. #3
    Senior Member daledugahole's Avatar
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    Haha. I know. Batten down the hatches!

  4. #4
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
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    An interesting one. I might try this with my home roasted beans just for the sake of it.

  5. #5
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    Liquid Nitrogen anyone...

    Mal.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I still say off gas 24hr then argon or nitrogen fill.

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Not much need for argon or nitrogen actually as the CO2 emitted during off-gassing is also heavier than air and if the beans are able to vent and left undisturbed, the CO2 should protect them from oxidation as effectively as either argon or nitrogen
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    ... or just improve you grind consistency by getting a better grinder - I use Vario's at home and they made more consistent and better coffee than any other change in home gear since the '70's.

    Back to the article - some of their "perceived flavour improvement" may be due to the old "grinder overheating the beans" chestnut. Quite a few commercial grinders are guilty of this fault.

    I am with OP - never had any food or drink which did not noticeably go downhill when frozen.

    TampIt
    PS: try irradiating it with U235 and see what it does...

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    PS: try irradiating it with U235 and see what it does...
    That won't do anything for stopping the oxidation process. A waste of good radiation.


    Java "Glow baby glow!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    Member Aido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    ...

    I am with OP - never had any food or drink which did not noticeably go downhill when frozen.
    If you vacuum seal a steak it can actually come out more tender as it ages. They generally defrost quicker too as there are no ice crystals formed.

    I'm sure if you we desperate you could vac seal beans with limited degradation.
    Actually has anyone tried grinding frozen/semi frozen beans vs room temp?
    Might be better for beans that are just beyond their shelf life and start to get rubbery.

    Just a thought.

  11. #11
    TC
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    Not a fan of vac sealed beans...

    As an exercise, next time you fly, two identical bags 'o beans, one with the one way valve taped off and the other open.

    Try the results at the other end....
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  12. #12
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    There is no doubt that freezing beans is a method to slow the de gassing and staling process. obviously its better if you can avoid freezing and simply have access to suitably aged beans all the time, but there is nothing wrong with it as a way of extending bean life.

    Clealy coffee made with frozen beans is preferable to drinking stale coffee. With high quality hardware you can immediatley see the difference even before tasting it, the same roast with half aged to say 2 months and half frozen for that time - the frozen coffee will basically grind and pour the same as when it was fresh, the stale coffee will be a sink shot.

    As for people claiming to be able to taste something different in frozen beans, well until I see some statistcally significant blind testing of that theory, I call BS.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    The biggest problem would be that your average Joe won't be doing it properly. I would imagine there's still plenty of people storing their preground coffee in the fridge or freezer at home. Even if it's whole beans they're probably not taking much care and after each use the bag would go back in the fridge or freezer full of any air and moisture it's taken on in the process. Everything I've read on this topic indicates that properly sealed coffee can be successfully stored in a deep freezer for a period of time with only minimal effects on its quality. For people living in remote areas it's often the only option. If these people also live somewhere hot and humid they might be better to store the coffee in cool storage of some sort once it's opened, but a temp controlled pantry or even a wine fridge is better than the kitchen fridge.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    As someone who has stuck beans in the freezer in the past, I can comment from my POV.

    • Yes, frozen beans are not as good as beans that have not been frozen but they have still been pretty good.
    • I only froze beans before travelling so there is a supply available when I return home.
    • I roast the beans in advance and rest them for about a week before freezing.
    • I only froze a small quantity in a well-sealed glass jar filled as much as possible so there is minimal air space.
    • I thawed the beans for about an hour before. I didn't notice any difference between thawing in the jar I stored them in and emptying into a coffee bag to thaw.
    • The beans deteriorate fairly quickly once thawed and only good for a couple of days (which is why I only freeze 150- 200g at a time).


    Never really tested but I suspect some beans freeze better than others.
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    Worth reading the original article if you haven't already - I don't think it's as conclusive as the media reports suggest.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    That won't do anything for stopping the oxidation process. A waste of good radiation.

    Java "Glow baby glow!" phile
    Agreed, that was precisely my point... As useless an idea as I could think of at that late hour (although butter / bullet and peanut butter coffee came really close, but they have already been done).

    Tamp"store at room temp"It
    PS: Dave Walsh reckons we should grind it wet to get a more even grind.

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    There is a roaster in Sydney that has been freezing its beans up until the point of sale for at least 15 years. I've not visited their roastery in a long time, but a check of their website confirms that they are still arguing in support of freezing for storage and grinding the frozen beans.

  18. #18
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyF View Post
    There is a roaster in Sydney that has been freezing its beans up until the point of sale for at least 15 years. I've not visited their roastery in a long time, but a check of their website confirms that they are still arguing in support of freezing for storage and grinding the frozen beans.
    Interesting. Who might this be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Interesting. Who might this be?
    Leroy, it's The Coffee Roaster. They are in Sydney in Alexandria and Brisbane in West End. They roast using a Chinook air roaster. There is an article on their website about frozen storage and grinding called "Protect your coffee...store it correctly".

    The link to the article: Commercial link removed per Site Posting Policy

    They have been around for a good while, which explains how they ended up with the coffee.com.au URL.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 28th June 2016 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Commericial link(s) removed

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    Reviving an old thread...

    I read this article - https://baristahustle.com/blogs/bari...aper-explained - which found that heat adversely affected grind quality, and recommended using frozen beans, stored in single use lots in the freezer. So... I had some 8 week old Decaf WOW! beans that were lacking somewhat, and froze some into small ziplock bags. Now the article suggests freeezing the beans at the time of peak quality, say a week or so after roasting, so I was not expecting a miracle.

    Taste test: Ground 14gm nett in cleaned Eureka Mignon (no retained grounds), and pulled a shot on La Pavoni Pro - I was surprised to see a decent crema, and pleased with the taste. I was considering no longer buying the beans because it was taking me too long to get through a kilo, but now I think I will be able to continue with the excellent Decaf WOW!. In case you are wondering why decaf... just think caffeine - increased heart rate and higher blood pressure - abnormal heart rhythms - atrial fibrillation - stroke.

    I recommend people give it a try.

    Cheers
    Peter

  21. #21
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    I roast coffee at home in rather large batches. and rather than roasting every week I would do 10-15 pound batches (4.5-5 kilos) and freeze them using a home vacuum sealer after they have degassed.

    doubt they are as good as a 3-6 days old batch but they do remain fresh for months. I even found an intact vacuumed bag that was 8 months old and it was not stale.

    as for grinding I ground them straight from the freezer without thawing and were delicious.

    some roasters freeze batches and keep them up to year as a reference for current crop of the same coffee from the same farms.

    here is another article regarding an experiment conducted by founding member of SCA Jim Schulman regarding the freezing of coffee for long(er) term storage.

    https://www.perfectdailygrind.com/20...ffee-question/

  22. #22
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilpark View Post
    I roast coffee at home in rather large batches. and rather than roasting every week I would do 10-15 pound batches (4.5-5 kilos) and freeze them using a home vacuum sealer after they have degassed.

    doubt they are as good as a 3-6 days old batch but they do remain fresh for months. I even found an intact vacuumed bag that was 8 months old and it was not stale.

    as for grinding I ground them straight from the freezer without thawing and were delicious.

    some roasters freeze batches and keep them up to year as a reference for current crop of the same coffee from the same farms.

    here is another article regarding an experiment conducted by founding member of SCA Jim Schulman regarding the freezing of coffee for long(er) term storage.

    https://www.perfectdailygrind.com/20...ffee-question/
    Absolutely, if you do it right freezing batches of both green and roasted coffee can be a great way to keep them fresh for longer. I think most people would suggest you allow them to thaw before use, but I know thereís a bit of debate around this as well and it can depend on other factors such as the grinder youíre using.
    The thing to avoid is what people used to do quite a bit which is keep open bags of coffee in the freezer and have them going in and out each time they used some. This of course will wreck them quickly due to the moisture thatís added each time.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Absolutely, if you do it right freezing batches of both green and roasted coffee can be a great way to keep them fresh for longer. I think most people would suggest you allow them to thaw before use, but I know thereís a bit of debate around this as well and it can depend on other factors such as the grinder youíre using.
    The thing to avoid is what people used to do quite a bit which is keep open bags of coffee in the freezer and have them going in and out each time they used some. This of course will wreck them quickly due to the moisture thatís added each time.
    yes. they do have to be kept air tight. I use them straight a way in a single dose situation because I dont want them exposed to any moisture due to condensation. I will have to try thawing them as I'm sure there is more wear to the burrs.

    I will have to consider storing green beans in the future. inhave never even considered that before

    One other thing to consider is that coffee beans tend to pick up whatever flavors are in your freezer so sealing them is of utmost importance.

  24. #24
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilpark View Post
    yes. they do have to be kept air tight. I use them straight a way in a single dose situation because I dont want them exposed to any moisture due to condensation. I will have to try thawing them as I'm sure there is more wear to the burrs.

    I will have to consider storing green beans in the future. inhave never even considered that before

    One other thing to consider is that coffee beans tend to pick up whatever flavors are in your freezer so sealing them is of utmost importance.
    Freezing greens is probably only necessary if youíve got a good amount and you donít think youíll get through them in a reasonable amount of time, or if you live somewhere hot and humid and canít control the environment theyíre stored in very well.

  25. #25
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    Sorry quick post: I went to a freezing coffee (roasted) masterclass that ONA recently ran. In short freeze the coffee in individual portions when at its peak and seal in vacuum bags and keep as stable a temp while frozen as possible, grind asap once out of freezer (ie don’t thaw). Need to possibly go a touch finer from memory.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    I work away, so am away for varied times. So freezing beans stops them staling in the cupboard.
    I have noticed (as we all have) that everyday we grind a little finer till we get fresh beans, then jump back coarser and start again. So if im away for a week, i would need to jump finer to catch the beans staling.

    Recently, i have been freezing beans into 100g lots and using from there. But my latest idea im trying, is to individually packed 20g beans into a ziplock bag, the bag is a size that requires the beans to be quite loaded in. I put the bags into a larger sealed jar.
    I remove 1 20g bag, grind and go. Everyday, the grind is now very close to the same. It seems that at around 3 months freezer time, the beans need to be ground progressively finer.

    I can get fresh beans, use them daily till the grinder is set at (say no2). Then split them up into ziplocks. Then knowing that i can change beans and retain the same grinder setting!

    As only grinding for myself, 1 doppio per day, i couldnt keep up with the constant grind changes. Now its much easier! Works for me...

  27. #27
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mb21 View Post
    Sorry quick post: I went to a freezing coffee (roasted) masterclass that ONA recently ran. In short freeze the coffee in individual portions when at its peak and seal in vacuum bags and keep as stable a temp while frozen as possible, grind asap once out of freezer (ie donít thaw). Need to possibly go a touch finer from memory.
    Ah nice, that's right I remember watching ONA coffee's Hugh Kelly using the freezing beans technique in the National championships, and explained it in a way that you can freeze beans right at their peak flavour profile. Fascinating, I was gobsmacked!

  28. #28
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    New article, pretty fascinating huh! You'd have to get it just right, but really interesting what it could do, and the impact it could have

    https://www.beanscenemag.com.au/big-...fee-freshness/



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