Post By TOK
Indonesian coffee roaster w600i
Just been doing a little wandering around the internet and found this little roaster:
commercial link removed per site posting policy
The roaster is run on LPG and is capable of roasting 1.2kg of green bean. It is in the vicinity of $2000 including shipping plus probably GST and any import charges.
Any wise heads out there have any thoughts/impressions for the enthusiastic (perhaps uninitiated!) out there who are looking for an alternative to the Behmor, hottop and coretto, that bridges the HUGE gap between these and the small commercial 1kg roasters?
Last edited by Javaphile; 4th July 2014 at 05:31 PM.
Reason: Commercial link(s) removed
I presume you are talking about importing to Australia. In which case the cost of purchase & importing are likely going to be the cheap part of the deal. Getting gas & electrical compliance are going to be your challenges. If you don't get compliance then you are possibly playing with fire and your life from a safety aspect, and you can forget about your insurance covering anything if it goes wrong. There are reasons why professional roasters are expensive, quality and safety being high on the list. Even expensive roasters from O/S have to be changed or adapted to meet Australian compliances.
Good luck if you choose to take the plunge. There are a few people that have had some success with some cheaper imports, but as far as I know they were all electrical, not gas. It may be worth finding out how satisfied they are, and at least go with a brand that has some local traction and a bit of a track record.
Personally I would not risk it.
Suggest you clarify what "shipping costs" includes. There are many hidden costs in shipping and they may only include up to a port which is nowhere near Adelaide, then you are up for more shipping costs, then customs clearance, then port charges etc, it all adds up.
That table is pretty large, unless it comes partially disassembled I would expect a hefty shipping cost. Suggest you get an itemised breakdown in the costing of the $2k quoted .
Looks like a nice unit though. Would be interesting to see the burner and drum configuration and internal build quality. The heat shielding etc of the electricals. Not much by way of electronics, but I suppose you could drill your own holes to put in the thermocouples to plot profiles. No glass viewer. Wonder how much just for the roaster without the cooling table.
Originally Posted by Pretzal
Last edited by Javaphile; 4th July 2014 at 05:33 PM.
Reason: Commercial link(s) removed
Thanks for the replies so far - both from different perspectives. My thoughts with this roaster would be to buy it or convert it to natural gas as it's easy to be plumbed that way. My aim would to be to use this simply as a home roaster with a few bags for friends and relatives. As far as electrical/gas compliance goes,I take it there are people who specialise in this field?
Yes- there are. A type b gas tech to do the gas side and make all necessary modifications and a suitably qualified sparkie to attend to the electricals. Note also that it appears to be fitted with 60Hz motors. We do 50Hz in Australia.
Originally Posted by Pretzal
Compliance on this stuff can be horrendous (read very expensive) and commercial enterprises amortise these costs across many units. Often, the entire gas train will be binned along with a goodly proportion (or all) of the electricals as well. In addition, there will be government fees to pay for compliance as well.
I'd pretty much guarantee that you will spend much, much more than the cost of the roaster attending to these items. Even then, it may be a crap roaster. It's the risk you take.
My advice? Tread carefully with eyes wide open lest you end up with a $10k pile 'o bills to attend to.
Gas compliance is costly. AGA can test the unit for compliance and give you a compliance number but only if it passes the Australian standard. The submission and testing alone is costly.
Compliance is a requirement if you intend to sell the product. The use of a non-compliant appliance is not illegal (or perhaps the better term is that it is not policed) but it is a safety risk to the public and yourself. Furthermore in the event of fire or electrical damage directly or indirectly caused by a non-compliant appliance will void any insurance claim you may make in the future. My advise if you do go ahead is to invest in a fire blanket and an appropriate fire extinguisher and never leave a roaster (roasting) unattended.
Originally Posted by Pretzal
I can't see a cyclone on the photos. This would be one of my must have features on a small commercial gas roaster.
Be aware that el cheapo cyclones don't always.....cyclonate ! That means you may buy the cyclone that the manufacturer sells with the machine (if they have one) but....it may be crap ie wasted money.
Also in terms of the discussion above about gas and electrics. Be aware that it is not unheard of for equipment that comes from non european countries, to have to have either of the main gas valve, regulator or the burners or the whole lot removed in order to get stuff that will work properly here. Be aware that some wiring harnesses come in ONE colour so you may not be able to trace anything when a fault occurs.
These are just some of the technicalities than can occur and you have to deal with when you self import something, whether you are a private joe or a corporate giant . When someone else imports something, they take care of it to make sure it meets all the "whatevers", before on selling to you Or they get into trouble when the shee-it hits the fan (remember, nobody cares about anything until the shee-it hits the fan. Then the last man standing becomes the scapegoat. Its the accepted way in Oz )
After all that...it might even be a great little number, but you will have to take the risk and spend the filthy luka to find out, then wear it if it isn't.
I know the one without the i in the model name and no cooling table cost LESS than $700 locally. I'd sooner getting the ones without cooling table, and shave those shipping weight, and use a bucket + shop vac instead.
Originally Posted by Pretzal
For those who read Indonesian, here's a review: Cikopi » Mesin roasting 7 jutaan (2)
For those who don't, just look at the pretty pictures.
There's a youtube video somewhere that shows how the machine run. It is super smokey and use open flame (my personal deal breaker). Smoke means outdoor, outdoor means winds against the open flame. And judging from that video, I don't think the results are all that great.
There are very few great roasters in Indonesia. They're using either Diedrich or Probat, one has Has Garanti sample roaster.
I'm not looking to make this a commercial enterprise simply for home use. Is it possible to make it SAFE but not necessarily go through the compliance process? Like getting a type b gas tech to look it over and make any necessary modifications.
Good suggestions Saoye re the fire blanket and extinguisher and thank you for your input so far.
Sure. Nobody will care unless you go up in smoke after which the Australian way dictates that someone will need to step forward and become the scapegoat.
Also be aware that you may want to sort some form of exhaust. A cyclone was already mentioned, but with or without that you still need to vent away somewhere or you will get high (literally) on the smoke and chaff. That causes heart arythmia and inability to sleep....in a big way....and is not good.
I think a domestic roaster as you indicated in your opening post may be the way to go especially for non commercial volume, should the enterprise grows beyond roasting capability of one of those babies, it may be time to consider 1+ kg roaster with enough demand to fund capital cost for serious commercial roaster, just a thought. I hope you join the roasting club soon!
Thanks for the review link. You don't have to read Indonesian if you have google translate Only a single row of flame which could possibly explain the uneven roasting and the low cost.
I noted from the link Pretzal gave the loading chute converts into an exhaust which links to the back and then I'm not sure where it expels the smoke. You can imagine without some kind of cyclone or a motor that draws air out of the barrel and a pipe that leads the smoke away it will get very smokey with a 1kg roast. Not something you can live with in a garage. I assume the manufacturer would have taken that into consideration and there is an exhaust somewhere that you can add piping to. Overall from what I can see it seems to be a very basic design, which doesn't necessarily mean bad. Still cannot see the barrel inside or the insulation used.
Originally Posted by kutis
Did a quick look, here's the video: Mini Coffee Roaster W600 - YouTube
Originally Posted by saoye
Around 7 mins in you can see the exhaust. You're right, in a garage, you'll need some piping to deal with the smoke.
Also, at $2000, couldn't you just get a Quest M3 or Hottop? Smaller batches, but you could do them back to back to back right?
It looks to be a basic device with a simple burner, but if you are not comfortable fixing something like a gas barbeque, then i would steer clear of dropping $2k on some foreign contraption with no local support that can only handle 600gms.
For $50 you could put together a 1kg breadmaker based roaster that many here have done, with excellent results !
Basic is good...very very good. Doesnt mean bad at all.
Originally Posted by saoye
Insulation? Wot insulation? If its is designed without, leave it out. If its designed with it in, leave it in! If you put it in, but it was designed without, you will change all the design parameters of use and then it may not work too well at all.....
Seriously. I think its way overpriced for small home use, and I tend to agree with whoever mentioned above to look at something like a hottop or something, but that is only of course a personal observation.
I think the point is that it is supposedly a 1kg roaster. Going to a 600g roaster as a price comparison is not what the OP is asking for.
Also regarding insulation I was not implying to add it in I was trying to understand what you get for the money. Also I am comparing it with my 1kg barrel roaster.
understood. Just adding to information.
My view is also that it is too big for home use. Not because some houseolds might not use 1 kg or more per week, but because most wouldnt. Therefore to do only 1 roast per week means the owner will never learn how to use it properly except over a very long pereiod of time. Would rather see OP buy a more suitable size (smaller) roaster where a few roasts per week can be done, and learning the ropes will be easier.
Adding to that, roasting say 500 gram batches in a 1 kg batch machine so as to use more frequently to learn, will only result in learning how to use a 1 kg machine to roast half its correct or most efficient batch size.....and use similar amount of gas and roasting time as the full batch.
Hope that helps to see were i am coming from. The OP is free to take all advice, then make up his own mind.
Agree with you if OP has never roasted but he is upgrading from a behmor (correct me if I'm wrong pretzal) and has been roasting for a few years now. I agree for a machine like this a lead on or step towards would be a corretto setup which allows for a more manual (hands on) control compared to a behmor. The machine OP presented however is supposedly also able to do as low as 200g so the frequency of roast will not be as far between. Personally for $700 (local price) I would give it a go for sure but for $2k there are others that you could look at for a little more with much better build and features.
Re: "...The machine....supposedly also able to do as low as 200g so the frequency of roast will not be as far between...."
Yes they can all be run at less than their std batch size which is what I was saying and maybe i didnt explain well enough, that while they can, that is not a good idea as you never learn how to use a machine at its correct batch size which is ideally where you want to be. Better to have a say 200 gram machine and use it often at full batch, than to have a 1 kg machine and use it at 200 gram batch, because you wont learn how to use it properly.... and therefore a waste of money at any price. Have a 1 kg machine when you can start using it at full batch size to do atleast say 2 or 3 batches at a time regularly, where you can learn something from it......
This is a common problem for commercial roasters where it has to be done as you grow and there is enough turnover of batches to go the next size up, but is a waste of time and money for a home roaster with virtually no tiurnover to go the next size...
But that is my head talking sense not my heart talking, and again that is only my opinion and it is certainly not my money. I have several motorcycles and can only ride one at a time. A perfect example oif my heart winning out over my head
Agree with you re the price.
Thanks very much for the replies people. Yes Saoye you're right I've been using a behmor for a few years now. I'd guestimate maybe 200 roasts (although I do have a log of all my roasts) has been conducted using my behmor. I roast 2 x 350gm batches (of green beans) about every fortnight, sometimes 3 if there is demand from family - to be honest I'd rather roast one batch of 700 and be done with it. Not to say I don't enjoy roasting in the behmor - I just don't particularly like the repetition as its time consuming.
I like trying new coffee toys - to experiment and gain exposure and experience with different products, styles and ways of doing things.
Good point TOK about the sweetspot for batch sizes I had wondered whether it was less than optimal to do say 500gram roasts in a 1kg roaster.
I have considered the corretto and while I haven't completely discounted it yet - I'm finding it difficult to feel passionate about a setup that whilst functional, it looks a lot franken-roaster like and feels like a step sideways to me. It's not elegant, neat, simple or an object of desire - it simply fills a need and on this point it is quite a successful and clever concept.
Most of the cost of the W600i appears to be in the postage ($650 US) which might be possible to reduce with a bit more investigation, however its most likely still a $2000 all up proposition most likely.
So what are these other options for not much more of which you speak Saoye??