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Thread: My behmor arrived - but watch out for that warning sticker

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    Unhappy My behmor arrived - but watch out for that warning sticker

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I'm over the moon that my shiny new Behmor Roaster has just arrived but not entirely happy that the warning (terms and conditions) sticker plastered over the control panel also removes the Behmor logo when you take it off. I guess it doesn't matter, but it's annoying to lose a whole lot of resale value in the first few minutes of owning it.

    Anyway, I'm off to set it up and give it a whirl...
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Talked to Andy or Joe Behm as yet?

    Mal.

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    My label didn't remove the logo, but did leave sticky residue all over the panel. I have been a bit scared to clean it off in case I removed the logo.

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    I had the same issue. Left me with my first impression of Behmor, ie they don't care about the details. Other companies use easy to remove labels, why can't they. I eventually got it off with De-Solv-It and lots of gentle rubbing. Logo survived unharmed thankfully. It was a very annoying start to Behmor ownership.

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    Andy tells me that the stickers are a bit of a headache at the moment. Most of them peel off fine but every now and then you get a dodgy one that's way too sticky.

    Knowing me though, I'm sure that damage from the sticker will be the least of the roaster's cosmetic problems after a few dozen roasts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    I had the same issue. Left me with my first impression of Behmor, ie they don't care about the details. Other companies use easy to remove labels, why can't they. I eventually got it off with De-Solv-It and lots of gentle rubbing. Logo survived unharmed thankfully. It was a very annoying start to Behmor ownership.
    Would it have neen as annoying as DOA?

    From what jeffk said, Andy and Behmor are looking at the issue.

    I am hoping to read your report on your first roast very soon! Must be exciting for you!

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    No definitely as annoying as DOA. This thing though has a multitude of design flaws, mainly around the interface design. I'll be writing to them so I can understand their logic cause as it stands, this is one of the most unintuitive appliances I have ever owned.

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    3..2..1..go

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    In perspective, people: this is a $500 roaster. I roast coffee that tastes better than my friend's coffee out of his $60,000 roaster and if I tip a batch it costs me a few bucks instead of hundreds of dollars.
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    Very true, setting my first batch on fire and covering the inside of the machine with soot certainly put the label residue in perspective!

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    No definitely as annoying as DOA. This thing though has a multitude of design flaws, mainly around the interface design. I'll be writing to them so I can understand their logic cause as it stands, this is one of the most unintuitive appliances I have ever owned.
    Rather than repeatedly rant on the forum, have you actually contacted Andy?

    What is it that you are comparing the Behmor to? Have you owned another roaster in the price range? I have, an i-Coffee and a Gene.....both are in working order....but I use the Behmor week in and week out.
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    Please show me where I am repeatedly ranting.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    Please show me where I am repeatedly ranting.

    Fair enough, my apologies, maybe 'ranting' is too strong a descriptor. But, you've owned the roaster for a very short period of time (have you actually tasted any beans yet?). So far, we've seen Posts #4 and #7 in this thread, and the new thread you started about the roaster's inability to maintain a desired profile. A few times it has been suggested that if you have a problem with your roaster to contact Andy (presumably the vendor) in the first instance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Rather than repeatedly rant on the forum
    Barry may have remembered certain conversations about water filtration etc.
    But hey indulging a little rant here and there is entertaining and shows the forum isnt too precious...

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    We like arguing and ranting!

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    Haha, that water filter was definitely a rant! No probs all. I believe in freedom of speech so extremely happy to have anyone have a go at me. Just be civil about it and if I'm wrong I'm more that willing to apologize.

    Wrt to the Behmor the main problem thus thus far is the user interface rather than it's capability. The front panel sucks and I have told them so directly. I have also given them an alternative layout. (Come to me with solutions not problems philosophy). My design is a lot more intuitive, no more multipurose buttons, you don't need manual to know their function or have to memorise them cause it is obvious that they do. My design has passed though held desk and been forwarded onto the powers that be. (Edit: Have a look at the attachment and see which is more intuitive.)

    They may take on some of my suggestions or they may not. TBH it doesn't bother me, at least I've given them some constructive feedback and tried to help them.

    With respect to the units capability, that is my issue not theirs. I know the unit is capable, I just need to learn how to use it hence my questions around how to control rate or rise.

    Edit: btw, the issue with my loose cooling flap was a missing C clip.
    Panel-Redesign-2.jpg
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    Last edited by MrFreddofrog; 22nd November 2015 at 10:51 AM.
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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Changing the panel means rewriting the software and a recertification of the roaster. i.e. Lots more time and dollars, both of which will be reflected in a higher price to the buyers. Then of course there's the whole issue of a redesign already coming down the pike.


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    True but not withstanding your very valid cost concerns, do you think my idea has validity?

    If not then so be it. If so, then that at least opens the door for change.

    All I really hope to achieve is for Behmor to realise what a crap panel they have. Realising that is the first step. That then puts them in a better position to challenge the "that's the way we have always done it" mindset.

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    Their panel is simplicity and achieves the same as your design. But I'd assume the manual would highlight the lowest to hottest temp for each setting, so you'd only need to look at that once or twice to get it.

    Do you redesign every appliance you buy? There's nothing wrong with being creative, but they are what they are, or else they wouldn't do well.
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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    It pays to read an entire post rather than just the first sentence. If you had and bothered to do a bit of research instead of simply continuing to rail you would have realized there are already big changes in the works for the panel/control of the roaster and not bothered with your last post which does little other than to show you haven't researched the very changes you say you want, even after you were pointed in that direction.


    Java "*cough* Behmor *cough* Connected *cough*" phile
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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I'm still worried about dropping my snarkphone with Behmor apps into the toilet prior to brewing a Brazen batch (in the future).

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I'm still worried about dropping my snarkphone with Behmor apps into the toilet prior to brewing a Brazen batch (in the future).
    You'll just have to go hunting for it then.
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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I can't wait to initiate a brew sitting on the throne: how cool would that be? Professional baristas eat your hearts out

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I can't wait to initiate a brew sitting on the throne: how cool would that be? Professional baristas eat your hearts out
    Haha...

    Cool is not the first word that comes to mind...

    Mal.
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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I can't wait to initiate a brew sitting on the throne: how cool would that be? Professional baristas eat your hearts out
    Interesting idea.

    Early connected roaster prototypes had a (required) "perimeter fence" on them, so if you walked away it would stop. Not sure if that will be on the brewer when it goes to market. These sorts of "safety features" are dictated by the certification bodies and have little to do with the factory or the owner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyeba View Post
    Their panel is simplicity and achieves the same as your design.
    Oh so so not true. Tell me, which button do you press to get the exhaust temp, wall temp etc? You'd have no idea unless you read the manual. My design is much much more intuitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    It pays to read an entire post rather than just the first sentence. If you had and bothered to do a bit of research instead of simply continuing to rail you would have realized there are already big changes in the works for the panel/control of the roaster and not bothered with your last post which does little other than to show you haven't researched the very changes you say you want, even after you were pointed in that direction.
    My bad. While I have been reading the entire post, you'll have to highlight the bit where I was pointed in the right direction cause I obviously missed it.

    And it's good to know I'm on the right track if the very changes I want are already in the works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    You'd have no idea unless you read the manual
    yes that's the point of a manual, or else they wouldn't be included

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    My design is much much more intuitive.
    Intuitive to someone who wants to fiddle, scary for someone who just wants to use auto-profiles and roast coffee with 3 button presses.

    The important bit you missed was the additional cost. Would you pay 20% more for that panel and wait 2 years for the certifications?

    I can tell you that the idea of a different panel was kicked around and excessive costs and the huge time lag to get it to market stopped it in its tracks. Simple multi function buttons are easy to learn, there is a clue with coloured rings to what heat they are (0, 25, 50, 100 percent red ring) and the buttons that have a second function also have a ring.

    Even that was designed differently but got rejected by the certification bodies as too much for an incremental change and would have required a re-certification.

    My kids have roasted (very successfully) on the Behmor Plus since they were 8 years old... I'm sure as a "big person" you will get used to it pretty quickly too.
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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    My bad. While I have been reading the entire post, you'll have to highlight the bit where I was pointed in the right direction cause I obviously missed it.

    And it's good to know I'm on the right track if the very changes I want are already in the works.
    The 'directions' are right in front of your eyes both in mine and others posts. Use that intuition you're going on about. After-all I wouldn't want to have to write a manual that you would have to read!

    And no, you're NOT on the right track for the changes you want being in the works.


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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    My behmor arrived - but watch out for that warning sticker

    As someone who's seriously considering buying a Behmor Plus, this has been a very interesting read. Right from the issue raised about the care needed when removing the warning sticker through to the issue of the panel design.
    I'd have to agree that the panel isn't particularly intuitive, as from the photo I can't really work out too much about it. However I don't understand the problem with reading the manual. Even if you have to have it handy for the first few uses I'm sure it would only take a quick referral to work something out. Then unless you're only planning on using your nice new home roaster sporadically I'm sure you wouldn't need the manual again unless you wanted to do something different or refresh your memory.
    I guess it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine though due to the number of times I've been called round to help set up or REset up an appliance at the inlaws. It's so frustrating when you find an easy fix and the answer to your "did you read the manual?" is always a "uh, no." Why not?!!!! Read the manual FFS!!!
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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    As someone who's seriously considering buying a Behmor Plus, this has been a very interesting read
    Herein lies the problem with posts on a forum, they can skew what's really going on.

    3000 roasters in Australia and New Zealand.
    3 people in this thread had trouble with the sticker = 0.001%
    1 person hates the panel = 0.00035%
    99.9985% are happily roasting and getting great tasting results and most of the above people will too... and that should be your real goal.

    The sticker should be an easy fix and the owner of the company has asked for a fix many, many times. Dealing with 3rd parties can and is a headache sometimes and as JeffK mentioned in the initial post, it's one of the first things that you notice and leaves an unnecessary bad vibe. Heck, I've asked at the checkout in Bunnings before... remove the sticker and I'll buy it, because I know if enough people did that they would change their stickers too!

    The panel design is okay, not perfect but it has to meet lots of criteria and the new manual features would not exist if the panel was redesigned. I'll take double function buttons and more user control over having only auto profiles any day of the week.

    Obviously there would be more than 3 people who got a dodgy sticker, and maybe someone else that hates the panel but even if you double the problems they are still a tiny, tiny percentage of all users.

    Go and see Sandra and Grant at Green Bean House in New Zealand and buy one, you won't look back!
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    Andy, all I have done is care enough to give Behmor a fresh perspective.

    As you can see most regular users can't even see the faults as they have gotten accustomed to them long ago. But being used to it doesn't mean it's good. It just means they're now experienced enough to overcome them.

    Btw I'm talking about the panel and not the unit's performance (it's obviously winning multiple awards), let's not confuse the two.
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  34. #34
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    all I have done is care enough to give Behmor a fresh perspective.
    ...but felt the need to do it in public before Behmor had a chance to reply to you and before you knew the facts (recertification costs and time).

    That wasn't cool, hence the reaction you got to your "fresh perspective"

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Just to clarify I didn't mean interesting in a bad way. It certainly hasn't put me off buying one, and yes Green Bean House is where I'd be getting it from. It doesn't hurt to hear all the variety of experiences though, including the bad ones, even if they're less than 1%. If I end up getting one at least I know to take care when removing any temporary labels now. 🏻
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    True as I see no issue in sharing my views and having good robust discussion about them. And even if Behmor disagrees, that doesn't mean the ideas aren't worth discussing in a public forum.

    But at least I have tried to do something about it rather than most who are content to just whinge. I have spent time developing a solution, drafting it up, and actually contacting the manufacturer, How many people can be bothered to do any of that, I'm guessing 0.00035%

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    TC
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    I've always been of the opinion that if you're prepared to put up the funds, you can actually have pretty much any inanimate thing you choose, designed as you wish.

    For under $500 you get a damn good home roaster. Don't like it? Don't buy one- or sell the one you have. Want it different? Pay someone to make it that way.

    I'm one of the 99.9985%, happily roasting with and getting great results from the Behmor when I choose to play with small batches. I did read the manual. Once.
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    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    You'll just have to go hunting for it then.

    Wouldnt be be a problem when roasting Mysore Nuggets
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    As a few longer term members of CoffeeSnobs know, I have suffered a series of small strokes that left me with permanent deficits in a number of areas, but the one that really makes life difficult for me, is that of possessing only about 10% of the short-term memory capacity I used to have. This has the very frustrating effect of making it very difficult for me to learn new things, regardless of the platform, device, User Manual, you name it.

    In a nutshell, I had close to zero issues in getting to grips with how to get the best out of my Behmor and the very few times I had queries about a couple of aspects in its operation, Andy fixed me up with answers I needed on the same day the questions were put to him. Once learned, there was no looking back and from all the great results I have read, from fellow CSers both new and longer term, it seems to me that the vast majority of Behmor Owners enjoy using one as much as I did.

    Seems like nothing more than another 'storm in a tea-cup', doesn't happen with coffee...

    Mal.

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    I think everyone one is over this topic. However I can guarantee if you showed both designs to people with no coffee roasting experience, they will without doubt say my panel design is much easier to understand.

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    So give yourself a medal, you obviously want one.
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  42. #42
    TC
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    Great. You can have it built then.

    Perhaps a few thousand of them might be a suitable start. You'll have one for you and 2999 to sell as a retrofit for those who want one.

    Tick off all the legals and you're ready to roll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    I think everyone one is over this topic. However I can guarantee if you showed both designs to people with no coffee roasting experience, they will without doubt say my panel design is much easier to understand.
    If everyone is so over this topic, why are you bumping it almost everywhere here?

    Your supposed robust chat sounds more like trumpet blowing....

    Then I have not had enough caffeine yet to cope with all of this.

    :rolleyessmiley:

  44. #44
    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    I think from memory I spent the sum total of around 3 minutes reading my Behmor Manual. It has sat on the shelf above my roaster since the first day never to be opened again.

    As they say, there's one in every crowd.......

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    WD-40 sprayed on a cloth will remove the labels residue very nicely .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeanGenii View Post
    If everyone is so over this topic, why are you bumping it almost everywhere here?

    Your supposed robust chat sounds more like trumpet blowing....

    Then I have not had enough caffeine yet to cope with all of this.

    :rolleyessmiley:
    I am not "bumping" as you put it, just responding to comments, exactly the same as everyone else

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    I wasnt going to chime in but at the end of the day you new version of the panel might work mrfrog... But
    This roaster was designed for people who might not have much roasting experience to someone who has a lot of experience. Simple to use with some variation.
    Your variation to the panel goes away from this and i dont see it as a sellable or viable change to something that has proven to be a great product. As Andy pointed out with the figures.

    Maybe concentrate on your own roasting. With the behmor how it is Mrfrog have ypu gotten some great roasts out of it??

    Cheers,

    Chris

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    Hi Chris

    I've done a few roasts but wasn't happy with my ability to produce a consistent result so working hard on that. As I'm into data based decision making I'm spending a fair bit of effort (and money) investing in a decent thermometer and longer thermocouple. It all should be fitted in the next day or two and we'll be back in business.

    But I also need to work out how to keep the rod that holds the cooling flap in place. It's come out twice now. Behmor support said just to put a dob of glue on the end of the rod like they do. I'm just waiting on them to tell me what type of glue they use as many glues will release toxic fumes when heated. Alternatively I may just make a C clip myself which is what they initially told me how the rod is held in place. Either way I still need to work out how to access that area as the right hand side of the unit has all the motors and circuit boards etc.

    All fun and games...

  49. #49
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    You can read alot on here on what is right or wrong with roasting. I know many people first hand who can get a perfect roast out of the behmor and then repeat it over again. When I first started to roast i felt i needed every tool under the sun to help me create the perfect roast. After a while it came down to the senses i had being sight, smell and after its roasted my taste. I look back now and glad i took the time to use those senses to roast as i have a better understanding of it now which i may not have had i gone with all the technical profiling tools available.

    I admit I still use Andys software and just received the new Heatsnob logger so i will be looking forward to trying this out.

    To get back on to topic, I still feel having had one of these also first hand that they are good for someone who doesn't have a great understanding of roasting but wanting to become better at it. As you can choose a profile but also have some manual play in what the end result will be. For the price, easy of use when first running it I feel the Behmor roaster is a great roaster.

    Cheers,

    Chris
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    I think you're absolutely right, sight and smell (and taste obviously) are important though they only come with experience (or someone mentoring you I guess). I'm on my own so trying to reduce the learning curve by reading heaps and using data. ATM it's easier for me to see a roast stalling for example on a temp chart than see it or smell it or taste it days later.



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