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Thread: Behmor Alternatives?

  1. #1
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    Behmor Alternatives?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    First the pre-amble...

    My Behmor turned 3 years old last Sept and whilst it's been reliable I've become more sensitive to it's 'foibles' over time, and now it has developed some kind of an issue with it's smoke (chaff) remover which has resulted in (1) a burnt top casing and (2) concern that i cant even leave it for 30 seconds just in case it repeats and catches fire.

    I'm not by any means complaining, it's been a trusty soul, used to roast about 1 1/2kg ever two weeks and long runs pre-xmas as i supplied workmates with their Christmas specials.

    I bought it back in 2012 simply because I wasn't happy with the cost profile of ordering roasted every week or two and paying for repetitive delivery charge (and not to mention couriers being a pain in the a$$ in my area).

    If i had to quantify the save it would be in excess of $3-$4k over the life of the machine (i.e. over $1,000 a year) even after removing the $400 cost, a very satisfying result.

    What I've never been happy with is simple, it was the display - I roast outside, in a country which is lets face it, a fairly bright environment on the whole and I've always struggled to see the readout whether it be when programming or the actual run. The upgrade to the 1600+ model made things worse, whilst i agree with the need to confirm the roast 2/3 of the way through it's a real pain when you cant see the display.

    Other gripes are less of an issue, the original keypad's digits wore off, albeit the +1600 model keypad lasted much better. I've had it jam a few times, essentially the drum for whatever reason deciding to jump off it's left hand side support (most likely by hitting the chaff collector), but they were pretty rare. Another would be watching the roast.. the window has always been too small and the bulb too dim to compete with the open or glass cylinder roasters as a result i just listened for the 'cracks'.

    The ask...

    I'm not aware of any, but what would be the equivalent in the market - say $500-$1k with a roast simular to the behmor i.e. 400-500g?

    I've tried smaller (I have a ancient iRoast2 which is 150g) but I end up spending too much time roasting - 10 times in a weekend is excessive.

    Or is there a Behmor with a different display? that would be good for me.

    Thanks in advance?

    Atomic.

    (EDIT: Gah - just realised i posted in wrong group, maybe someone can move this to the roasters section?)

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    For the volume and price point I think the Behmor stands alone in its market segment.


    Java "Roasting away" phile
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Yeh, your only option to match or exceed the Behmor's payload at a comparable price is to build a 'Corretto' or 'KK turbo oven' type roaster using a variety of bits and pieces (breadmaker, heat gun, particle accelerator etc).
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    hot top maybe?

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    I switched from the Behmore some six months ago, to a KKTO build, haven't looked back. The Behmore I purchased 2010, a great little workhorse, a bit restrictive, now roasting is a piece of cake ..

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    $700? Who's selling them at that price? The cheapest price I see is $USD1,100. Which at the current exchange rate is over $AUS1,500. Over 3 times the price of the Behmor with almost half the capacity. And FYI there's no need to buy a 110v model and run a transformer as there are 220v models available in AUS, with the cheapest price I see in AUS is over $1,700, plus shipping. $700?!? Better grab all you can of them and on-sell them and make a mint MrFreddoFrog!


    Java "Not even close to being in the same market segment" phile
    Last edited by Javaphile; 9th December 2015 at 03:20 PM. Reason: more info
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  7. #7
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Gene Cafe, iCoffee or some sort of DIY (Corretto, KKTO, BBQ drum rotisserie) are the only other options that I found while I was hunting over the last few months. I've ended up with the Behmor.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Both the Gene and the iCoffee have significantly lower capacities than the Behmor (both nice little roasters though), and the OP wanted something that could do 400-500g in one go.

  9. #9
    Senior Member nikko.the.scorpio's Avatar
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    If you can make do without the bells and whistles I think you'll find as a long term roasting solution a KKTO build (either done from scratch yourself on the uber cheap or via buying the hard to get parts from KK himself) is pretty much a pound for pound champ. Not much I can say that already hasn't been said about the design concept many times - it works exceedingly well.

  10. #10
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    I've never heard of the keypad wearing out but I guess they could over that much use and as for roasting "outside" I would suggest that under a veranda or in a shed is where most people roast and the display is fine for that purpose. Maybe try a different spot?

    Regardless of the idiosyncrasies of each of the mentioned roasters the reason we sell the Behmor and the reason it's won more gold medals than any other roaster in the Golden Bean Home Roasting competition is that it has the right balance of radiation and convection heating to produce the best body and best bean development of any home roaster.

    Every other roaster mentioned in this thread doesn't have the right balance of convection and radiation and some only have one or the other (regardless of price).

    When you ask a "what else question" you will always get replies from people that have one roaster and love it, there are couple of people in this thread that own multiple roasters and can do a better compare but typically you need to understand you will get a bias reply.

    The difference between the original Behmor 1600 and the Behmor 1600 Plus is the addition of manual overrides. These were added (with much nagging from me) to give a huge amount of control over the roast and allow better development between first and second cracks. Again, the blind tasted results in the Golden Bean year after year speak for themselves.

    Best bang for buck, best volume, best results... not hard to tell why we sell only one type of home roaster in Beanbay.
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    I bought my Behmor roaster from Andy a few years ago and it hasn't skipped a beat. I upgraded it to the plus spec front panel and the manual override is worth getting

  12. #12
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    For what it's worth....

    I experienced a similar issue with an original Behmor with respect to the unit's display being flooded by ambient light outside. Overcame this with a simple fix, of folded up thin cardboard into the shape of a shroud, similar to that which you see on TV Cameras covering sporting matches. Just stuck it on with Blue-Tac and removed afterwards.

    The KISS principle in action...

    Mal.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    For what it's worth....

    I experienced a similar issue with an original Behmor with respect to the unit's display being flooded by ambient light outside. Overcame this with a simple fix, of folded up thin cardboard into the shape of a shroud, similar to that which you see on TV Cameras covering sporting matches. Just stuck it on with Blue-Tac and removed afterwards.

    The KISS principle in action...

    Mal.
    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    I pretty much roast outside the front of my house, it's under cover (just in case of rain etc...) and partially shaded but regardless of the direction i face it there's not much joy with the display. Even if I shroud it with my hands it's hard to make out. I don't think it's the particular display i had the same with the display before the + model.

    I could try roasting in the evenings but in the summer i'll get eaten alive by the mossies... I had a laugh dont i paint a harsh picture of sydney life.

    I'll ponder a little... i'm tempted to do a build... by trade i trained as an electrical/electronic engineer and have picked up strong mechanical skills over the years. The biggest challenge I face is the burner source - I'd prefer to make it gas but sourcing the burner to match the size is a challenge (and I suspect something i'd want checked over by a gas fitter).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    $700? Who's selling them at that price? The cheapest price I see is $USD1,100. Which at the current exchange rate is over $AUS1,500. Over 3 times the price of the Behmor with almost half the capacity. And FYI there's no need to buy a 110v model and run a transformer as there are 220v models available in AUS, with the cheapest price I see in AUS is over $1,700, plus shipping. $700?!? Better grab all you can of them and on-sell them and make a mint MrFreddoFrog!


    Java "Not even close to being in the same market segment" phile
    Edit (again); Take a chill pill Javaphile, all I was trying to do was help the OP.

    US$699 https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/ho...8b-2k-open-box
    Last edited by MrFreddofrog; 9th December 2015 at 08:53 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    $699 US not including international shipping for a 120v roaster that is out of stock. You won't be landing that for "500-1k" and you'll still have to buy a transformer and pay to have it shipped back to the states if anything goes wrong. That's if they choose to honour the warranty in a machine running through a transformer at a different frequency.

    I think the Behmor has this section of the market cornered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicGrog View Post
    by trade i trained as an electrical/electronic engineer and have picked up strong mechanical skills over the years.
    Use your expetise to interface a lcd display to the original and bypass the lawyer function. You could sell it as a kit. I will be your first customer :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    $699 US not including international shipping for a 120v roaster that is out of stock. You won't be landing that for "500-1k" and you'll still have to buy a transformer and pay to have it shipped back to the states if anything goes wrong. That's if they choose to honour the warranty in a machine running through a transformer at a different frequency.

    I think the Behmor has this section of the market cornered.
    My bad, I didn't realise it was out of stock though given it was literally the first link I clicked I'm assuming there are other (US) companies also selling at that price.

    No it won't be landed at < AU$1,000 but the OP can decide if he wants to stretch his budget or not, I was just giving him another option.

    And the warranty is toast. OP needs to research Hot Top reliability and the likelihood of needing the warranty verses projected savings. Sometimes the savings isn't justified, sometimes it is but that's a call for the OP to make.

    Btw, why all flack when I'm just trying to help out the guy? How about channelling all that energy to helping him rather than attacking me. Not that I can't take it but it really doesn't help the OP which is whole the point right?

  18. #18
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    My bad, I didn't realise it was out of stock though given it was literally the first link I clicked I'm assuming there are other (US) companies also selling at that price...

    ...Btw, why all flack when I'm just trying to help out the guy? How about channelling all that energy to helping him rather than attacking me. Not that I can't take it but it really doesn't help the OP which is whole the point right?
    Not only is it out of stock it wasn't a new roaster. It was a customer returned used one so it would likely show signs of wear and which per the retailers statements would most likely not include consumables such as its filters as they had been used. As such there is no reasonable assumption that other companies would be also selling the same item at the same price as it was a one of a kind.

    People aren't attacking you. They're correcting erroneous/incomplete information that has been posted which is most definitely a help to the OP and others. The only one here who appears to be doing any kind of personal attacks is yourself with your "Take a chill pill" comments.


    Java "Totally chill" phile
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    Java you might want to re-read your original reply to my post again before you start calling mine personal attacks.

    So Again, it was literally the first link I clicked. I saw the picture, I saw the price, copied the URL and that was it. I didn't investigate further as I wasn't the one buying it. If it ends up being not suitable then so be it. No harm done. You can't make me feel bad for trying to help someone. Not going to happen.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    With respect, in threads like this it is sometimes worth doing a little research before recommending a roaster that is a) approx three times the price of the comparison product and b) doesn't meet the OP's desired specs (i.e. the Hottops are rated at 250-300g roasting capacity). It doesn't really help the OP.

    I'm sure you don't mean it, but you can sometimes come across as the new guy who always knows more than the more experienced hands. I do like your Behmor mod, though. Pretty cool.
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    Thanks. I'm really happy with that mod. Next mod will possibly be fan forced exhaust ducting so I can continue to roast in summer without heating up the house.

    And I don't mean to come across as a know it all. I've worked in business improvement for over a decade so get paid to challenge paradigms and push boundaries in areas I have no technical expertise, newcomer's perspective so to speak.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    Thanks. I'm really happy with that mod. Next mod will possibly be fan forced exhaust ducting so I can continue to roast in summer without heating up the house.

    And I don't mean to come across as a know it all. I've worked in business improvement for over a decade so get paid to challenge paradigms and push boundaries in areas I have no technical expertise, newcomer's perspective so to speak.
    Fair 'nuff. Good on you for taking the comment in the spirit it was intended.

  23. #23
    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    Ive got two behmors and Im never looking back! i alternate between the two to reduce wear and tear, and the great advantage as i see it of these roasters over many other domestic roasters is programability combined with a (compared to other products on the market) fairly robust and industrial heat source, which means you can roast as dark or light as you like and the beans come out incredibly even in terms of colouration - without the tipping and scalding Ive experienced on glass walled varieties

    Its possible to remove and clean the afterburner, yes?

    i havent done so yet but I'd be keen as mustard to hear from someone who has!

    P

  24. #24
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Well, I haven't removed and cleaned the afterburner, but I have removed and replaced one.......simple enough job (though takes a little while as you have to take side and top panels off.....and that's a fair number of screws).

  25. #25
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Never heard of anyone cleaning one but it should be easy to inspect.

    2 screws hold the cover in place from inside the roasting chamber, you should be able to take the cover off to see if its full of gunk and worth cleaning.... but my bet is it will be fairly clean, the afterburner gets very hot and burns off most of the likely things to soot-up that area.

    The other inspection place would be the exhaust at the back. Just a few screws and you can see down the exhaust chamber. If there is some build-up in there it would be worth cleaning it out too... but again, rare to see any amount of build-up unless you roast very dark, very often as the air flow and heat keeps it pretty clean too.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by askthecoffeeguy View Post
    .... - without the tipping and scalding Ive experienced on glass walled varieties
    Agreed that the Behmor is a great roaster. We're proud to sell them and we sell plenty per Gene Cafe as the Behmor wins comprehensively on bang for buck. I like the Gene too.

    If it's the Gene that you are making comparisons to, I don't know how you manage to get tipping out of one when the heat source is so indirect. Either the tradie is blaming the tools or are you running a hidden thermonuclear mode menu option?

    The Sonofresco? Yep. Tipping monster and requires mods to work.
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    As a (mostly) happy Behmor 1600+ owner (thanks Andy) I would be second in line (prev poster beat me to it) to get a display you can read outside. Forget the fixes I tried first like a portable cardboard "made to fit" shroud, even my old camera shroud (vintage "look at the birdie" type) does not allow me to read the display easily outside on a reasonably sunny day in Rockingham. Oh, and yes, the Behmor was actually under a shaded carport. I either trick the timer (tell it is a 400g load and do 200g) or use my own kitchen timer to guesstimate the safety cutoff time. More than once I have considered developing an alternative display using an LED.

    Other than that annoying but minor usability issue, the performance of the Behmor is nothing short of amazing. An even roast (almost the point of being anal about it) and it is so easy to hear the cracks. To quote Hitchhikers Guide "anything else you cannot cope with must be your own problem".


    TampIt

  28. #28
    Junior Member petenank's Avatar
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    This conversation is almost convincing me to by a Behmor+ ..... almost
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  29. #29
    Junior Member petenank's Avatar
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    Apparently the latest Behmor with Smartphone integration is due this April (in the US anyway)

    http://behmor.com/new/

  30. #30
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petenank View Post
    Apparently the latest Behmor with Smartphone integration is due this April (in the US anyway)
    **sigh**

    The 220v prototype doesn't exist yet so please don't hold your breath!

    Unlike some others manufacturers we don't hype the arrival of a new product before even a working prototype exists as that's just the start of the process, then there is testing, manufacturing, distribution and the Australian safety testing is the last step.
    The whole process is very long-winded.

    Christmas with any luck but this time next year is more likely. (best guess)
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  31. #31
    Junior Member petenank's Avatar
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    I did try to add a Facebook link in there to show the company was saying, but all good. Sometimes you can only take people on face value, but I obviously don't have as much experience with the company as you ... so hopefully they can "grind" on a little quicker and it all happens sooner rather than later.

  32. #32
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    12 months from now to get a product to market and tested really is lightning fast. We are talking about multiple standard bodies that all have different rules and regulations and long lead times for inspections. Slapping something into the market untested can be done faster but this company (and it's distributor in Australia) certainly won't ever do that.

    The 120v USA version will be out in a few months (prototype of that was just over 18 months ago).

    A phone app is slick and very cute, but don't expect the app to have anywhere near the control of the current plus model. The target market for the "connected" version is entry level that need something geeky and want it to work with minimum button presses. The Plus model has the manual over rides that an app could never get certified. The two roasters will exist side by side and I expect that "real" home roasters will prefer the control that the current model offers.
    ...but time will tell!
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  33. #33
    Junior Member petenank's Avatar
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    So if I buy a Behmor+ and the new "connected" model comes out with equal control abilities you'll let me swap for free ??

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by petenank View Post
    So if I buy a Behmor+ and the new "connected" model comes out with equal control abilities you'll let me swap for free ??
    No. Andy will gift you his entire estate- which means that you get to pay all of his accounts.
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  35. #35
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Surely you'll well and truly get your money's worth buying a Behmor now, roasting to your hearts content, getting good practice/getting to know the machinery, and then if it's really worth the upgrade in 12+ months - selling it on.. And if it has equal control abilities - why would you want to swap anyway? An extreme case of upgraditis? All for connected devices - but honestly, a roaster isn't nearly as much a bling item like a Acaia scale...
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  36. #36
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    Roasting now and gaining practice is certainly the big draw card ... however, as I'm sure most people would appreciate, as a rookie to the coffee roasting world, my eyes are wide and filled with all manner of sparkly and expensive equipment ... but alas I have a professional golf score type bank account, a one year old son with a growing appetite and of course a wife that has NO interest in coffee ... #sigh

  37. #37
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Oh, I should have mentioned.

    They are also planning to have an upgrade kit to convert the Behmor Plus into a Behmor Connected.

    ...and before someone asks the obvious "how much?" it doesn't exist so can't be priced but like the upgrade from the original Behmor to the Behmor Plus I'm sure it will be very reasonable and as close to the price difference as they can.


    Quote Originally Posted by petenank View Post
    So if I buy a Behmor+ and the new "connected" model comes out with equal control abilities you'll let me swap for free ??
    I have a better idea, I'll charge you double and say "I told you so".
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  38. #38
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    I have an even better idea. Give it to them for free, they just have to pay the $900 Processing & Handling fee!


    Java "Who says you can't learn anything from late night TV?!?" phile
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post

    ...and before someone asks the obvious "how much?" it doesn't exist so can't be priced
    I would have thaught the obvious question would be if it has an lcd display you can read rather than the poor green led display?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    they just have to pay the $900 Processing & Handling fee!
    ...plus the $500 Andy had to respond to multiple silly posts surcharge

  41. #41
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    ...plus the $500 Andy had to respond to multiple silly posts surcharge
    Can I start a tab then ??



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