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Thread: IKAWA sample roaster

  1. #1
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    IKAWA sample roaster

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Dear Coffee Snobs,

    What do you thing about the IKAWA as a sample roaster. I know it is proven in the filed. However, despite having a 15 kilo roasting machine, I don't have a sample roaster. Do you thing it is a good alternative instead of a 1.5 kilo sample roaster?

  2. #2
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    Looks like a popper on steriods. Will have to wait and see how the thing works in real life but does look a tad expensive for the roast size comparing to a behmor (even with upgrades with thermo couples)

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    It's indeed, expensive

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    If 60g of green is enough for you to evaluate that coffee, go for it. The ability to control the profiles from an app is well worth the asking price.

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Isnít the idea that you can easily replicate roasts and hence roast every day or two depending on consumption? Obviously with a weeks lag to let the bean flavour develop.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshaal View Post
    Dear Coffee Snobs,

    What do you thing about the IKAWA as a sample roaster. I know it is proven in the filed. However, despite having a 15 kilo roasting machine, I don't have a sample roaster. Do you thing it is a good alternative instead of a 1.5 kilo sample roaster?
    A 1.5kg roaster (assuming drum style) is not a sample roaster (in the true sense of the industry's practice), so it would seem you are indeed confusing the intended purpose and functional abilities of the Ikawa versus say a Proaster 1.5kg system.

    Raw coffee suppliers provide sample sizes for sample roasters (gosh, that sorta makes sense). Asking for larger portion sizes is generally met with a grimace, even when offering to pay. The entire industry is geared up around these basic standards.

    Good luck trying to roast a sample portion properly in a 1.5kg drum style roaster, hence the sizing of the Ikawa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medalbandit View Post
    A 1.5kg roaster (assuming drum style) is not a sample roaster (in the true sense of the industry's practice), so it would seem you are indeed confusing the intended purpose and functional abilities of the Ikawa versus say a Proaster 1.5kg system.

    Raw coffee suppliers provide sample sizes for sample roasters (gosh, that sorta makes sense). Asking for larger portion sizes is generally met with a grimace, even when offering to pay. The entire industry is geared up around these basic standards.

    Good luck trying to roast a sample portion properly in a 1.5kg drum style roaster, hence the sizing of the Ikawa.
    Thank you for the reply,

    So you mean that it is better to get the IKAWA for the purpose of tasting greens. Do you thing I can replicate the results from the IKAWA to a 15 kilo Giesen with obviously some attempts her and there untill done right.

    In other words, what do I have to look at to achieve this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshaal View Post
    Thank you for the reply,

    So you mean that it is better to get the IKAWA for the purpose of tasting greens. Do you thing I can replicate the results from the IKAWA to a 15 kilo Giesen with obviously some attempts her and there untill done right.

    In other words, what do I have to look at to achieve this.
    don't think of it as replicating results. you use the ikawa to realise the potential of the green, and you roast towards that on the production machine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshaal View Post
    Thank you for the reply,

    So you mean that it is better to get the IKAWA for the purpose of tasting greens. Do you thing I can replicate the results from the IKAWA to a 15 kilo Giesen with obviously some attempts her and there untill done right.

    In other words, what do I have to look at to achieve this.

    Perhaps you don't know much about your Geisen roaster and the fact there is a whole family of Geisen systems. As quick glance at their website should help answer your question. It's called a W1.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    don't think of it as replicating results. you use the ikawa to realise the potential of the green, and you roast towards that on the production machine.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meshaal
    So you mean that it is better to get the IKAWA for the purpose of tasting greens. Do you thing I can replicate the results from the IKAWA to a 15 kilo Giesen with obviously some attempts her and there untill done right.

    In other words, what do I have to look at to achieve this.
    If you can squeeze it in, assuming you are roasting commercially, I highly recommend doing the CQI Q grader course, then making a decision on your sample roaster taking into account what you have learned about green evaluation. The failure rate on that course is supposed to be very high, but learning is the important thing, not passing. The Q grader course will make it immediately obvious who is talking BS in the world of coffee.

    Like Woodhouse says, I don't think that you really use a sample roaster to learn how to roast a particular bean; you use it to work out what its taste characteristics are. Then you use your knowledge, experience and stuff you can measure to work out how to roast it best on your roasting gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by medalbandit
    Perhaps you don't know much about your Geisen roaster and the fact there is a whole family of Geisen systems. As quick glance at their website should help answer your question. It's called a W1.
    I think the W1 is a 1kg production roaster, not a sample roaster. If you try to roast samples on it, I would think it would behave very differently from a production roast, since you will be right at the bottom of its capacity and therefore you will have proportionally more of the coffee (ie. all of it) in contact with a very large drum with very high heat capacity.

    Giesen have a WPE1 and a WPG1 that might be suitable. They seem to say that you can store, retrieve and create profiles ... you should email them to see if they mean profiles for repeating sample roasts or if they mean that the results from the sample roaster are somehow translateable to the production roasters.

    I'm not a professional, but, personally, I have gotten great results from the Quest and I think that its limitations are pretty fine for sample roasting purposes. It's so much cheaper than a probat or whatever that I'd look at one (or maybe two) as a sample roaster if I needed a sample roaster for my business.
    Dimal and greenman like this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
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    I picked up an IKAWA pro a few weeks ago for sample roasting. Amazing bit of tech and has already proven valuable in comparing a couple of green samples with the ability to roast them all so easily to the same identical profile.



    Dimal, magnafunk, solace and 2 others like this.

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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    A friend and I split the cost of a shared Ikawa Pro v3 for sample roasting. It's still early days but here's my thoughts:

    Pro:
    - VERY consistent roasting. With same bean and roast profile, I can hit colour change and first crack within +/-3 seconds...every time. This makes it excellent for bean evaluation.
    - Able to follow a defined roast profile with precision. There are tons of micro adjustments to the heating element which keeps the roast true to your designated profile.
    - Sharing profiles with other pro roasters is easy and kind of fun to compare notes, regardless of geography. We've used to compare notes with others around Australia and all the way over in Panama and Ethiopia.
    - Software is nice super easy to use on my iPad and iPhone. Unless making adjustments to a roast profile, you really don't need to hover over it.
    - Portable: I've brought this along to a few places so we can do quick roasts and immediate samples with beans held by others.
    - Able to make fine adjustments from roast and then immediately sample, then repeat - I'm calling this reactionary roasting.

    Cons:
    - As compared to the Probat 100g dual drum gas sample roaster (BRZ-2), I'm having a harder time quickly creating a very good sample roast. There's something just a bit off with most Ikawa roasts - perhaps that's true with all fluid bed roasters? Maybe I just prefer flavour profiles intrinsic to gas drum roasters.
    - Using same bean, I found less play/tolerance in roast profiles with the Ikawa as compared to the Probat.
    - Uneven roasting within batch: I was expecting more consistent roast profiles with a fluid bed but it's probably the same to a bit less consistent than the Probat sample roaster.
    - It's expensive. Granted, it's less than half the cost as the Probat, but still exy for what it is.
    - Difficult for profile roasting: I had hoped to use it as a sort of profile roaster but so far have been unable to easily translate results into production scale gas drum.

    The new Kaffelogic roaster looks interesting and certainly less expensive. Would be great to get comparisons between these machines.



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