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Thread: Gas Roasters Type B Compliance

  1. #1
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    Gas Roasters Type B Compliance

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    First 3 posts were moved here from a different thread, hence the abrupt beginning of the discussion.

    This is exactly what i am looking for. I am planning to purchase 3kg gas coffee roaster from china, anyone can help me in giving me the right direction of how to do this properly especialy in getting the typeB compliance?

    does regular gas plumber can do it? The seller told me that they will fit gas connector in accordance to Australian standard. He said he shipped a few to Australia

    Whats the cost in getting this compliance?

    thanks
    Last edited by Javaphile; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:57 PM. Reason: Added Move note
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    Compliance can be a massive pain if you're not sure what you are doing.. You'll need a lot more than "a gas connector to Australian standard".

    If you don't have documentation, walk away. Non-compliant components will need to be replaced with compliant ones. A regular plumber cannot submit nor sign off Type B work.

    Your Type B guy will need to submit schematics of the electricals and gas train as well as a list of all major components which must also be compliant. It's unlikely that China will know nor care what that might entail.

    Use https://esv.vic.gov.au/technical-inf...ng-appliances/ as a start point.
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  3. #3
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    I wont be using main gas line tho. We will just be using gas lpg cylinder as the coffee roaster is only 3 kg capacity and using burner not bigger than regular gas bbq grill. Are you sure that esv needs to be involved?

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Caffeinator is spot on.

    Your unapproved appliance requires sign-off from the licenced sparkie and the type-B plumber and then ESV will inspect and tag it before its approved for legal use.

    Your BBQ regulator and hose (unless you also bought it direct from CN) has a AGA registration number https://www.aga.asn.au/ the seller in Australia needed to obtain before sale. They also had to submit additional items for destruction testing before they get the "permit" to manufacture.

    ESV inspection will include the area the roaster is being used (adequate ventilation etc), the flue height/clearance, LPG bottle position/security, safety cut-outs and flame-out protection and may even require lock-out switches on the doors to the roastery. There are also requirements based around windows and doorways etc etc etc... which is why you need professional help to get it all right.

    The Type B plumber might have to add additional fail-safes to meet the ESV requirements.

    The electrician might have rewire the roaster to the correct type and gauge wire.

    People have spent thousands of dollars to get Chinese roaster up to spec, purchasing a roaster from one of our site sponsors will ensure that it meets Australian regulation (safely, wire gauge, electrical) and they will certainly be able to help you with the local regulations too.

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    Wot Andy said...

    FWIW ahhespresso, I struggle to see why you'd even bother going from 2kg to 3kg...

    If this is a business venture and you are trying to do it with a 3kg roaster, you'll end up working for very little per hour. The numbers look a little better once you get to a 5kg or thereabouts drop.

    You would well know that you need to factor greens, power, gas, cost of all of the equipment required plus a fair hourly rate for you. That's of course before you include the myriad other costs of establishing and running a roasting business- even if it's "just a hobby". I've seen plenty of hobbies which are actually self-funded loss makers.

    I can't see how a swap to gas which will allow for a 2kg drop is going to achieve anything other than allowing you to actually learn to roast rather than pushing a button to turn greens into brown with no control over what happened in between?

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    Thanks guys, yes it is a dilemma. I know that I would rather get a 5 or even a 10 kg roaster. But here is my problem. At the moment I am using an electric roaster and that electric roaster is powered by a petrol generator because the site that I am in does not allow me to add additional power outlet. (15 amp) hence the use of generator. Petrol generator cost $15 for approx 6 hours work. (from 9 am to 3 pm) so I suppose gas is cheaper.

    And why not to 5 or 10 kg? Well, first we have the cost of such roaster. This is my side business, we re doing only about 30-5- kg a month and sometime less depends on occasion etc. With my full time work, I can only roast coffee 1-2 days a week from 9 am-4 pm with the help of my wife. So having to invest tens of thousands of dollars is not really an option for our circumstances now. CHinese made roaster is low cost and thought they should do the job plus the one that I am thinking of buying sold a few of their products here, and the guy gave me a list of contact for me to verify. And yes they re verified. So why not?

    For 3 kg roaster, I can get an electric model (exactly same roaster but electric) but it needs double wattage of power and my petrol generator (6500 watt capacity) wont be able to do it. So with 3 kg gas roaster, i thought i can cut the petrol cost plus i can add more productivity (it is actually 3.8 kg capacity) though its only 1 kg addition, it does help with our market size at the moment. If you are talking about a big roaster maybe replacing current roaster with just 1-2 kg more is indeed a waste of time.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahhhespressso View Post
    Petrol generator cost $15 for approx 6 hours work. (from 9 am to 3 pm) so I suppose gas is cheaper.
    Assuming the roaster uses about 12 MJ/hr, if you pay $2.50 / kg for the gas (about what a large cylinder refill costs where I am) that's 5.5 cents per MJ* so the gas cost is about $0.66 per hour.

    Although petrol is about 20% cheaper per MJ* the generator has ~20% efficiency, hence the cost difference.



    *Assuming LPG and petrol both around 46 MJ / kg and petrol at around $2 per kg (somewhere about $1.50 per litre)
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    Assuming the roaster uses about 12 MJ/hr, if you pay $2.50 / kg for the gas (about what a large cylinder refill costs where I am) that's 5.5 cents per MJ* so the the gas cost is about $0.66 per hour.

    Although petrol is about 20% cheaper per MJ* the generator has ~20% efficiency, hence the cost difference.



    *Assuming LPG and petrol both around 46 MJ / kg and petrol at around $2 per kg (somewhere about $1.50 per litre)
    yea so $4 per 6 hours work thats like more than half the price i pay per roast day

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Caffeinator is spot on.

    Your unapproved appliance requires sign-off from the licenced sparkie and the type-B plumber and then ESV will inspect and tag it before its approved for legal use.

    Your BBQ regulator and hose (unless you also bought it direct from CN) has a AGA registration number https://www.aga.asn.au/ the seller in Australia needed to obtain before sale. They also had to submit additional items for destruction testing before they get the "permit" to manufacture.

    ESV inspection will include the area the roaster is being used (adequate ventilation etc), the flue height/clearance, LPG bottle position/security, safety cut-outs and flame-out protection and may even require lock-out switches on the doors to the roastery. There are also requirements based around windows and doorways etc etc etc... which is why you need professional help to get it all right.

    The Type B plumber might have to add additional fail-safes to meet the ESV requirements.

    The electrician might have rewire the roaster to the correct type and gauge wire.

    People have spent thousands of dollars to get Chinese roaster up to spec, purchasing a roaster from one of our site sponsors will ensure that it meets Australian regulation (safely, wire gauge, electrical) and they will certainly be able to help you with the local regulations too.
    Spoke to Paul from Revolution Roaster, very responsive. Hoping to meet up thursday.
    Andy, Dimal and RevolutionRoasters like this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahhhespressso View Post
    ....And why not to 5 or 10 kg? Well, first we have the cost of such roaster. This is my side business, we re doing only about 30-5- kg a month and sometime less depends on occasion etc. With my full time work, I can only roast coffee 1-2 days a week from 9 am-4 pm with the help of my wife. So having to invest tens of thousands of dollars is not really an option for our circumstances now. CHinese made roaster is low cost and thought they should do the job plus the one that I am thinking of buying sold a few of their products here, and the guy gave me a list of contact for me to verify. And yes they re verified. So why not?...
    ahhhespresso- It's great that you are looking for something more. For me, so much about what you describe about your current setup look like bandaids over bandaids.

    If cost is an issue, run some numbers with $5k-10k in type B costs because it could be that if you purchase a non-compliant roaster. Perhaps it might be more? Perhaps it might prove impossible.

    Where are you roasting? The garage of a rental or similar? You can't get even 15A? Perhaps you go gas and just hope all goes well and skip type B? You have no insurance and if your roaster doesn't operate well and/or the ventilation is not adequate, you could well burn the place down or have yourself a pair of lungs full of CO. And the local council??

    My advice? Park it for the moment.

    It's great that you have discussed this with Paul. There are also other places such as Bureaux Collective and Criteria Coffee who will hold your hand and and allow you to learn in a safe, compliant environment while you effectively hire one of their roasters. Alternately, there are plenty of roasters who will gladly contract roast for you while you work things out.

    Either of these solutions will allow you to see whether the idea has legs while you look for an appropriate site as it's clear that the current arrangement is not even close to adequate.
    Dimal likes this.

  11. #11
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    Wow thanks for the advice, cafeinator you sound like an expert and probably worked as worksafe officer have you?
    certainly will look into this dont worry, we ve been doing this since 2013 with current setup with no problem. Thanks but contract roast is not an option. We looked into this. Thanks again for your kind advise and red flags warning.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Anybody know what it costs to get a device through Section 68? The people who sell those monstrous showoff barbecues must get them through this way so it's doable, but at what cost?

    If it wasn't too much, it might be feasible for a small group of like minded coffee snobs to get one model of small Chinese roaster through Section 68 and thus avoid all the Type B malarkey. You'd have to convince ESV that it was for light commercial use.

  13. #13
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    What is section 68?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    In the link from Caffeinator post #2 above.

  15. #15
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    ahhespresso. Check out used to be sponsor Coffee Roasters Aust.

    They have a beautiful 3kg Diedrich on offer which would suit you perfectly. No need to risk a roaster which is unlikely to be compliant.
    Dimal likes this.



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